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A Song of Ice and Fire / Other Topics / Robin Hobb book signing

Nenz
User ID: 9182423 Feb 19th 8:57 AM
In all probability I am going to a book signing for Robin Hobb's new book "Ship of Destiny" on 10th March. I assume that there will be time for questions during the signing and I'd be happy to relay any questions anybody has. So everyone feel free to ask away.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 19th 3:49 PM
Nenz, have you read "The Mad Ship"? I am waiting for the paperback, but would love to get detailed spoilers about it and "Ship of Destiny" - I am one of those people who enjoy reading "spoiled" books.
I guess, when I get spoilers, I imagine the whole book my way and then am (almost always) pleasantly surprised by unanticipated route the author takes to reach the landmarks of the plot...

I guess that it would be counter-productive to ask such questions as: "Is Kennit a Ludluck?" or "Is Amber the Fool grown to adulthood?" because all those things are doubtlessly revealed in the books... although, _I_ am dying to learn them.

However, some questions niggle me:

I.e. is Sa's priesthood so powerless that one can forcibly take a priest away against his will and not fear any retribution (i.e. Wintrow's plight in Bingtown and Jamalaia)? How can priests do their work if they have absolutely no protection? Wouldn't a threat to make Kyle's actions concerning Wintrow known actually stop him in his tracks?

Also, if Ephron intended that Althea follow him as a captain of Vivacia (despite her being female), I cannot for the life of me understand why she wasn't sailing as a member of his crew, as is customary for boys. I can understand his reservations about making her the ship's boy or a deckhand, but surely since she hit 17-18, he could have made her the third mate? The situation seems somewhat contrived to me - how could Ephron expect Altea to instantly rise from the position of no direct authority and responsibility to the captaincy? How could he expect that anyone would take her expertise as a sailor seriously?

Nenz
User ID: 9182423 Feb 19th 7:54 PM
labor,
I have read "The Mad Ship" once (I'm actually re-reading it now) and I'd be happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability, but as it's spoilers you want I'd feel better if was done over e-mail. You can e-mail me at [email protected]
About Althea my interpretation is that she probably would have been given a position of power _eventually_ , remember Ephron wasn't very old and he expected to live a good few years yet.
I assume he should have had atleast 5 to 10 years left, more than enough time to raise her through the ranks gradually.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 20th 8:52 AM
Yes, but why wait for so long? IIRC Brashen was in his very early twenties (21-22) when Ephron made him his first mate.
Also, when Ephron fell ill and stayed home, surely it should have occured to him that he must make provisions for Althea. At that time he still intended that she should inherit and captain Vivacia, so I don't understand why he didn't make Althea's position as a second or third mate condition of Kyle's captaincy. And why no provisions for Althea's right to continue sailing on Vivacia was made in his will. I mean he _did_ know that both Ronica and Keffria regarded Althea's sailing only as a fancy of a spoiled favourite daughter, not as any kind of qualification or professsion.

All of this seems terribly contrived to me. Either that, or Kyle was partly right and Ephron did treat Althea as a spoiled princess and allowed her to be an irresponsible child for much longer than if she were a boy. He was a traditionalist Trader enough to allow an enthusiastic girl to sail, but influenced by new mysoginistic influences enough that he didn't include her in the ship's hierarchy.
IMHO, even in the best case (for her, i.e. if she inherited) he was setting her for great difficulties.

Thanks for invitation to email you for spoilers, I am sure to take advantage of it ;) .

Emily
User ID: 2192024 Feb 22nd 12:38 PM
*Jumps up and down squealing with excitement* I had no idea the next book was coming out so soon!!! Mad Ship has only been out a few months.

OK...questions.

Why is Liveship Traders so brilliant and Farseers so boring?

Hmm...on second thoughts, no, that might be a bit tactless.

I'm puzzled by the balance between the sexes in the Farseer trilogy. I mean, when Kettriken (or however you spell it) becomes Queen-in-Waiting she spends 99% of her time doing the sewing! And then raiders arrive and she's in the thick of battle. It just seems a bit weird, how women can be considered equal - in governance, war, everything - and yet still be stuck with traditional medieval feminine roles.

And why on Earth was there this great taboo against sex before marriage? Why would Chivalry - the heir to a throne! - be forced to abdicate because - shock horror - he'd actually slept with a woman before he married? Don't tell me Regal was celibate.

I REALLY want to know how poor old Vivacia got turned into a slave ship. Why didn't Ronica utterly forbid it? Why didn't Vivacia refuse to sail? Why didn't all the other Liveships refuse to let her sail?

Labor...I think that Ephron originally meant Althea to be a son to him in every way, but years of Ronica's nagging brought him round to thinking that her husband, not her, would eventually become Captain, and she'd go on plenty of voyages in a passenger capacity, as she did with him. And yet more of Ronica's nagging meant Althea was denied even that.

Nenz
User ID: 9182423 Feb 22nd 3:21 PM
About Vivacia being made a slaver:
Ronica had no _legal_ right over Vivacia, Keffria could have prevented it but she was totally ruled by Kyle. The liveships could have stopped it as Ophelia said to Althea if she had come to them, but I believe that their loyalty is first to their family and then to their own kind. So they would not act independantly, they were appaled by the making of such a young, sensitive ship a slaver, but they would not act without someone first asking for their help.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 23rd 2:40 AM
I'd venture to guess that the liveships didn't know that Vivacia was going to be made a slaver. Remember that neither Vivacia herself nor Althea spoke about it to the other liveships or their families and that Kyle's plans hardly could be common knowledge in Bingtown if he was at least a moderately savvy trader.
IMHO, if the other liveship families knew they would have taken steps - no one wanted another Paragon.

As to Ronica - she tried to dissuade Kyle, but legally could do nothing. Keffria could, but didn't. She seems to have severe self-confidence problems at the time. And, she seems appalingly ignorant of the liveship lore. Which is a bit strange, but still...

Keffria, BTW, is one of my favourite characters - she grows and changes a lot but in a very plausible manner. I would very much like Kyle to meet the "new" Keffira...

I liked the books 1 and 2 and even the idea of overall conclusion of the "Farseers" (though not the boring travelogue with McGuffin captures and escapes in book 3).
But for what it is worth:

Kettricken wasn't performing the normal "Queen-in-waiting" duties, because many distrusted her as a foreigner and because Regal did his best to deny her any real power. No wonder that as a result Kettricken had ample time to do her sewing... When the things got too far out of hand, though, Kettricken would snap the leash and act as she saw fit (i.e. battles)

As to Chivalry - IMHO the issue was not that he'd had sex, but that he fathered a bastard while being unable to get legitimate children with his wife. Many were afraid that he might try to make Fitz his heir and thus very likely provoke a civil war. Apparently such action was possible in the culture of the Seven Duchies.

Chivalry's options were:

1. Divorce, marry someone else and father heirs. In this case he could have remained "King-in-Waiting". But because he loved his wife very much he wouldn't do it to her.

2. Just stay "King-in-Waiting" anyway. In this case Fitz would be most likely killed at quite an early age.

3. Clarify the line of succession by abdicating, which he did. It has also saved Fitz's life for as long as it did, because Fitz was seen as relatively unimportant once the line of succession moved beyond him.

What I _really_ don't understand, though, is why Verity remained unmarried for so long. Very imprudent, if you ask me.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 28th 3:03 PM
Nenz, thanks for the spoilers! I have read the "Mad Ship" by now and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I have only a few quibbles - i.e. that the scattered members of the same family "as if by chance" found themselves at the junctures of all the important events! Also, Kennit's luck seems to be really excessive (makes me think of ta'veren!), although he is a very intriguing character.

Most developements managed to be both surprising and logical, but Wintrow's changes seemed a bit forced to me.
Yes, and changes of POV in mid-sentence are mildly irritating...
But all in all a very good book, which doesn't suffer from the middle book syndrom in the least.
Anyway, I have other possible questions for Hobb:

Are "sensitivity" towards the Elderling city and ability to speak with the dragon manifestations of Skill? And if so, why did Fitz's later Skillings always go unanswered? Is Skill something humans developed independantly or is it due to the Elderling blood?

Emily
User ID: 2192024 Feb 29th 12:03 PM
Thanks for the explanations, everyone...I realise Ronica had no legal right to forbid Kyle to make Vicacia a slaver, but I don't think she did all in her power to stop him. If she'd said 'I forbid it' then Kyle would be faced with openly defying the mother-in-law to whom he owed his captaincy. And Keffria might have grown a spine (as she does, eventually) and forbidden it herself. Or Ronica could have gone to the other liveships and the other traders and asked them to put their feet down. But instead she just makes a few token protests...in fact, I seem to remember her saying once - reluctantly - that maybe Kyle was doing the right thing to restore the family fortunes.

A nice explanation for Kettricken's behaviour, Labor, but I'm still not convinced...look at Celerity and her sisters - one minute totally giggling girly females and the next in the thick of battle. It's as if all the women are schizophrenic.

Have to agree about Keffria's growth - it was great. And Malta as well - I actually like her now, which I'd have betted a fortune would never happen.

Kennit's luck - well, it may be excessive, but then he gets a lot of bad luck too...i.e. his leg is eaten by a serpent and then chopped off by his girlfriend.

Thanks for clarifying the Chivalry situation, but I'm still not convinced - as Verity told Regal, even with a bastard the line of succession was clear: Chivalry, Verity, Regal, August, with Fitz as a 'distant fifth'. King Shrewd's bastard half-brother survived just fine - why not Fitz? Surely there was some way less drastic than abdication in which Chivalry could have made it clear Fitz wasn't his heir? By abdicating he caused enormous upset to everyone - especially Verity, who was untrained for Kingship - and brought Regal closer to the throne.

More questions for my new deity, Robin Hobb:

Why was Kettricken so protective of Shrewd? OK, she's a nice person, but she MUST have known that he ordered her brother's death.

Why didn't Fitz remember anything before the age of five? And why did holier-than-thou Chivalry beget a bastard and then refuse to support it? If he'd just paid child maintenance, Fitz would never have been dumped on his doorstep and he could have kept the throne!

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 29th 1:15 PM
Emily, Ronica was not very familiar with the liveships. Remember how she thought that if Ephron stays home, Althea should too? Heck, even Althea didn't know that the other liveships (or their families) might have helped them. The only way which occurred to her was via the Trader's Council.
And IIRC there was a logical rationale supplied for Ronica's reteniscence - IIRC she wanted Kyle gone before he realizes the fullness of his new power, so she might win Keffria to her way of thinking. Which she did.

IIRC Kyle couldn't care less that he owed Vivacia to Ronica - he thought that he knew best and that her opinions on the liveships were "womanish fancies" or some such. Ronica tried to forbid Kyle rough treatment of Wintrow "under her roof" and Kyle promptly reminded her that the house wasn't hers any longer but Keffria's and hence his.

Nenz User ID: 9182423	Feb 19th 8:57 AM In all probability I am going to a book signing for Robin Hobb's new book "Ship of Destiny" on 10th March. I assume that there will be time for questions during the signing and I'd be happy to relay any questions anybody has. So everyone feel free to ask away.
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 19th 3:49 PM Nenz, have you read "The Mad Ship"? I am waiting for the paperback, but would love to get detailed spoilers about it and "Ship of Destiny" - I am one of those people who enjoy reading "spoiled" books. I guess, when I get spoilers, I imagine the whole book my way and then am (almost always) pleasantly surprised by unanticipated route the author takes to reach the landmarks of the plot... I guess that it would be counter-productive to ask such questions as: "Is Kennit a Ludluck?" or "Is Amber the Fool grown to adulthood?" because all those things are doubtlessly revealed in the books... although, _I_ am dying to learn them. However, some questions niggle me: I.e. is Sa's priesthood so powerless that one can forcibly take a priest away against his will and not fear any retribution (i.e. Wintrow's plight in Bingtown and Jamalaia)? How can priests do their work if they have absolutely no protection? Wouldn't a threat to make Kyle's actions concerning Wintrow known actually stop him in his tracks? Also, if Ephron intended that Althea follow him as a captain of Vivacia (despite her being female), I cannot for the life of me understand why she wasn't sailing as a member of his crew, as is customary for boys. I can understand his reservations about making her the ship's boy or a deckhand, but surely since she hit 17-18, he could have made her the third mate? The situation seems somewhat contrived to me - how could Ephron expect Altea to instantly rise from the position of no direct authority and responsibility to the captaincy? How could he expect that anyone would take her expertise as a sailor seriously?
Nenz User ID: 9182423	Feb 19th 7:54 PM labor, I have read "The Mad Ship" once (I'm actually re-reading it now) and I'd be happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability, but as it's spoilers you want I'd feel better if was done over e-mail. You can e-mail me at [email protected] About Althea my interpretation is that she probably would have been given a position of power _eventually_ , remember Ephron wasn't very old and he expected to live a good few years yet. I assume he should have had atleast 5 to 10 years left, more than enough time to raise her through the ranks gradually.
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 20th 8:52 AM Yes, but why wait for so long? IIRC Brashen was in his very early twenties (21-22) when Ephron made him his first mate. Also, when Ephron fell ill and stayed home, surely it should have occured to him that he must make provisions for Althea. At that time he still intended that she should inherit and captain Vivacia, so I don't understand why he didn't make Althea's position as a second or third mate condition of Kyle's captaincy. And why no provisions for Althea's right to continue sailing on Vivacia was made in his will. I mean he _did_ know that both Ronica and Keffria regarded Althea's sailing only as a fancy of a spoiled favourite daughter, not as any kind of qualification or professsion. All of this seems terribly contrived to me. Either that, or Kyle was partly right and Ephron did treat Althea as a spoiled princess and allowed her to be an irresponsible child for much longer than if she were a boy. He was a traditionalist Trader enough to allow an enthusiastic girl to sail, but influenced by new mysoginistic influences enough that he didn't include her in the ship's hierarchy. IMHO, even in the best case (for her, i.e. if she inherited) he was setting her for great difficulties. Thanks for invitation to email you for spoilers, I am sure to take advantage of it ;) .
Emily User ID: 2192024	Feb 22nd 12:38 PM Jumps up and down squealing with excitement I had no idea the next book was coming out so soon!!! Mad Ship has only been out a few months. OK...questions. Why is Liveship Traders so brilliant and Farseers so boring? Hmm...on second thoughts, no, that might be a bit tactless. I'm puzzled by the balance between the sexes in the Farseer trilogy. I mean, when Kettriken (or however you spell it) becomes Queen-in-Waiting she spends 99% of her time doing the sewing! And then raiders arrive and she's in the thick of battle. It just seems a bit weird, how women can be considered equal - in governance, war, everything - and yet still be stuck with traditional medieval feminine roles. And why on Earth was there this great taboo against sex before marriage? Why would Chivalry - the heir to a throne! - be forced to abdicate because - shock horror - he'd actually slept with a woman before he married? Don't tell me Regal was celibate. I REALLY want to know how poor old Vivacia got turned into a slave ship. Why didn't Ronica utterly forbid it? Why didn't Vivacia refuse to sail? Why didn't all the other Liveships refuse to let her sail? Labor...I think that Ephron originally meant Althea to be a son to him in every way, but years of Ronica's nagging brought him round to thinking that her husband, not her, would eventually become Captain, and she'd go on plenty of voyages in a passenger capacity, as she did with him. And yet more of Ronica's nagging meant Althea was denied even that.
Nenz User ID: 9182423	Feb 22nd 3:21 PM About Vivacia being made a slaver: Ronica had no _legal_ right over Vivacia, Keffria could have prevented it but she was totally ruled by Kyle. The liveships could have stopped it as Ophelia said to Althea if she had come to them, but I believe that their loyalty is first to their family and then to their own kind. So they would not act independantly, they were appaled by the making of such a young, sensitive ship a slaver, but they would not act without someone first asking for their help.
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 23rd 2:40 AM I'd venture to guess that the liveships didn't know that Vivacia was going to be made a slaver. Remember that neither Vivacia herself nor Althea spoke about it to the other liveships or their families and that Kyle's plans hardly could be common knowledge in Bingtown if he was at least a moderately savvy trader. IMHO, if the other liveship families knew they would have taken steps - no one wanted another Paragon. As to Ronica - she tried to dissuade Kyle, but legally could do nothing. Keffria could, but didn't. She seems to have severe self-confidence problems at the time. And, she seems appalingly ignorant of the liveship lore. Which is a bit strange, but still... Keffria, BTW, is one of my favourite characters - she grows and changes a lot but in a very plausible manner. I would very much like Kyle to meet the "new" Keffira... I liked the books 1 and 2 and even the idea of overall conclusion of the "Farseers" (though not the boring travelogue with McGuffin captures and escapes in book 3). But for what it is worth: Kettricken wasn't performing the normal "Queen-in-waiting" duties, because many distrusted her as a foreigner and because Regal did his best to deny her any real power. No wonder that as a result Kettricken had ample time to do her sewing... When the things got too far out of hand, though, Kettricken would snap the leash and act as she saw fit (i.e. battles) As to Chivalry - IMHO the issue was not that he'd had sex, but that he fathered a bastard while being unable to get legitimate children with his wife. Many were afraid that he might try to make Fitz his heir and thus very likely provoke a civil war. Apparently such action was possible in the culture of the Seven Duchies. Chivalry's options were: 1. Divorce, marry someone else and father heirs. In this case he could have remained "King-in-Waiting". But because he loved his wife very much he wouldn't do it to her. 2. Just stay "King-in-Waiting" anyway. In this case Fitz would be most likely killed at quite an early age. 3. Clarify the line of succession by abdicating, which he did. It has also saved Fitz's life for as long as it did, because Fitz was seen as relatively unimportant once the line of succession moved beyond him. What I _really_ don't understand, though, is why Verity remained unmarried for so long. Very imprudent, if you ask me.
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 28th 3:03 PM Nenz, thanks for the spoilers! I have read the "Mad Ship" by now and thoroughly enjoyed it. I have only a few quibbles - i.e. that the scattered members of the same family "as if by chance" found themselves at the junctures of all the important events! Also, Kennit's luck seems to be really excessive (makes me think of ta'veren!), although he is a very intriguing character. Most developements managed to be both surprising and logical, but Wintrow's changes seemed a bit forced to me. Yes, and changes of POV in mid-sentence are mildly irritating... But all in all a very good book, which doesn't suffer from the middle book syndrom in the least. Anyway, I have other possible questions for Hobb: Are "sensitivity" towards the Elderling city and ability to speak with the dragon manifestations of Skill? And if so, why did Fitz's later Skillings always go unanswered? Is Skill something humans developed independantly or is it due to the Elderling blood?
Emily User ID: 2192024	Feb 29th 12:03 PM Thanks for the explanations, everyone...I realise Ronica had no legal right to forbid Kyle to make Vicacia a slaver, but I don't think she did all in her power to stop him. If she'd said 'I forbid it' then Kyle would be faced with openly defying the mother-in-law to whom he owed his captaincy. And Keffria might have grown a spine (as she does, eventually) and forbidden it herself. Or Ronica could have gone to the other liveships and the other traders and asked them to put their feet down. But instead she just makes a few token protests...in fact, I seem to remember her saying once - reluctantly - that maybe Kyle was doing the right thing to restore the family fortunes. A nice explanation for Kettricken's behaviour, Labor, but I'm still not convinced...look at Celerity and her sisters - one minute totally giggling girly females and the next in the thick of battle. It's as if all the women are schizophrenic. Have to agree about Keffria's growth - it was great. And Malta as well - I actually like her now, which I'd have betted a fortune would never happen. Kennit's luck - well, it may be excessive, but then he gets a lot of bad luck too...i.e. his leg is eaten by a serpent and then chopped off by his girlfriend. Thanks for clarifying the Chivalry situation, but I'm still not convinced - as Verity told Regal, even with a bastard the line of succession was clear: Chivalry, Verity, Regal, August, with Fitz as a 'distant fifth'. King Shrewd's bastard half-brother survived just fine - why not Fitz? Surely there was some way less drastic than abdication in which Chivalry could have made it clear Fitz wasn't his heir? By abdicating he caused enormous upset to everyone - especially Verity, who was untrained for Kingship - and brought Regal closer to the throne. More questions for my new deity, Robin Hobb: Why was Kettricken so protective of Shrewd? OK, she's a nice person, but she MUST have known that he ordered her brother's death. Why didn't Fitz remember anything before the age of five? And why did holier-than-thou Chivalry beget a bastard and then refuse to support it? If he'd just paid child maintenance, Fitz would never have been dumped on his doorstep and he could have kept the throne!
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 29th 1:15 PM Emily, Ronica was not very familiar with the liveships. Remember how she thought that if Ephron stays home, Althea should too? Heck, even Althea didn't know that the other liveships (or their families) might have helped them. The only way which occurred to her was via the Trader's Council. And IIRC there was a logical rationale supplied for Ronica's reteniscence - IIRC she wanted Kyle gone before he realizes the fullness of his new power, so she might win Keffria to her way of thinking. Which she did. IIRC Kyle couldn't care less that he owed Vivacia to Ronica - he thought that he knew best and that her opinions on the liveships were "womanish fancies" or some such. Ronica tried to forbid Kyle rough treatment of Wintrow "under her roof" and Kyle promptly reminded her that the house wasn't hers any longer but Keffria's and hence his.