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A Song of Ice and Fire / Announcements / SOS manuscript on eBay

Back 20 Messages

Green Gerg
User ID: 0081374 May 30th 4:24 PM
Just heard this from George:

<<By the way, I may put a manuscript of A STORM OF SWORDS up on ebay this next month. I'm waiting to see if I have an extra, when all my reading copies get back...>>

Would be VERRRRRY interesting, no?

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 31st 11:12 AM
Lodengarl;

Yep, that's more or less how it works. Green Gerg was responsible for the bidding, and Fourthman for the copying/distribution, IIRC.

Green Gerg
User ID: 0081374 May 31st 11:20 AM
Do you really think SOS will be out in the UK in July? Can the editors/proofers/etc. really work that fast? Speaking as a former mag editor, this seems magically swift...

The eBay thing, if it comes to pass, might be cool anyway...

I have to check on a personal quest first...I called in a huge favor to a close former-book-editor friend whose wife is head of art dept. at a major publishing house. She has colleagues at Bantam who may try and procure me a galley or reader copy. If not, the eBay auction would be nifty. I dunno if Fourthman is still around; last time he expressed interest in doing it again.

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 May 31st 11:24 AM
Who gets to keep the actual manuscript though? So basically, if "we" outbid everyone, and it is $250.00, we split that cost among everyone, then we must pay for mail cost and copying cost to get our copy right?

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 May 31st 11:25 AM
Why doesn't GRRM make it easy on us, forget his publishers, just make a bunch of copies and charge us all $20.00 for a copy..ehehhe

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 31st 11:27 AM
The one who keeps the original, pays more. Just how much more is a matter of debate, but Greg paid five times the bottom contribution, IIRC.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 31st 11:37 AM
Green Gerg,

If they don't manage July, it'll be early August for certain. I've also full expectation that they'll manage July. He's already gotten the galleys to proof, and apparently they're running him hard to get it done ASAP (especially since he's leaving in July for Westercon.)

Apparently the folk at Voyager are kept to strict deadlines. They might slip a couple of weeks, but I think July 17 might very well be in their reach -- but, as before with _A Clash of Kings_, I expect the speed will mean no new maps (argh), and minor little niggles that he'll correct in the U.S. edition.

As for the MS issue ... that is one concern, how a group is going to deal with it. Getting four chapters photocopied is one thing -- and it still needed a lot of paper and a lot of heavy duty copiers, kindly donated by our favorite numerical person.

I don't see how 39+ chapters (half MS) or 78+ chapters (full MS) can be copied and shipped both in quick enough time to make it worth it and cheap enough to not be prohibitive. Of course, there are other options, but for various reasons they are problematic.

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 May 31st 12:38 PM
Get an estimate from kinkos on how much it will be, as soon as you get it, get them made and send them out once you get payment.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 31st 12:43 PM
Notice that I mentioned "cheap enough." :)

I am relatively certain that 750+ pages (for half the MS) will cost very, very much. The shipping for same, especially overseas, will also cost very, very much. I have a feeling that the group that does this will get a break on the copying, as last time ... but maybe so.

I'm considering throwing in, but I'd like to see what arrangements could be made to bring down cost, and also when he'll actually put it up.

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 May 31st 12:47 PM
Another option is to have someone put it online, on a passworded page, so only those who paid can view it...again, tons of problems with that, but no printing or shipping costs, and we can all wait till it actually comes out to read it on paper.

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 May 31st 12:52 PM
Or someone could put it in an adobe acrobat file or word file and have it downloadable for people to reduce size and print if they like...either way there is no way to safeguard from others making copies or sending the file along...doesn't the publisher frown upon this kinda stuff from authors, to have the actual work go around before the book comes out? No offense to GRRM, but it seems to me he would sell anything of his to make a buck...cool for fans though!

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 31st 1:00 PM
Not a bad idea, if one had an HTML wiz to set it up.

It could be done, perhaps, to the degree that one might be able to both password protect the files and automatically refuse anyone not from the ISPs of the members of the group. Beating that requires hacking the server, essentially.

Unfortunately, there's still the issue of keeping people from being able to copy-and-paste or save the HTML files, which would make the whole thing easily distrubatable. GRRM had no problem with a group photocopying to get it around amongst themselves, but dissemination over the Internet is a whole 'nother beast.

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 May 31st 1:02 PM
That is true...but would be easiest...but you are correct, a file would be so easy to send to any of your friends or people who want to read it - I would feel cheated if i paid to get a first look at the story and some yahoo who knows someone can see it for free...

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 31st 1:08 PM
The publisher certainly hasn't told him to stop, and he's been doing it since _A Game of Thrones_. I'm also rather certain they're aware of it.

GRRM owns the text of his book. It's his. He's allowed to sell a reading MS if he desires, and within limits he can okay people to photocopy or share it. However, the odds of hundreds or thousands of people getting something distributed through paper is ... slim.

There's always the risk that someone might decide to OCR a photocopy and post it on the Internet, but so far I've never seen it happen and don't expect to see it happen. We respect the work too much.

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 May 31st 1:11 PM
Exactly...I agree...GRRM knows we are all going to buy his book, all of us who post here regularly...so why not let us read it for free? I would rather pay, say $35.00 right now and be able to 1) read aSoS manuscript now or soon, 2) have him sign a hardback copy and send it to me when it comes out. Makes sense to me.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 31st 1:19 PM
Probably because GRRM is a good American. ;) If I were him, I wouldn't give away copies of my own hard work either. There's about two years of sweat and blood in that MS (figuratively, anyhow; if it were literal, there might be difficulty in photocopying it....)

Tom R.
User ID: 3647314 Jun 4th 8:02 AM
Well, who's going to copy this puppy for distribution and postage? What was the final manuscript page count? Yikes. I think I'll wait for the in-print version (I think ...).

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 4th 12:50 PM
Ahh, you missed where GRRM said that he's decided against oferring it, at least before the published version. :)

Back 20 Messages

Green Gerg User ID: 0081374	May 30th 4:24 PM Just heard this from George: <<By the way, I may put a manuscript of A STORM OF SWORDS up on ebay this next month. I'm waiting to see if I have an extra, when all my reading copies get back...>> Would be VERRRRRY interesting, no?
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 31st 11:12 AM Lodengarl; Yep, that's more or less how it works. Green Gerg was responsible for the bidding, and Fourthman for the copying/distribution, IIRC.
Green Gerg User ID: 0081374	May 31st 11:20 AM Do you really think SOS will be out in the UK in July? Can the editors/proofers/etc. really work that fast? Speaking as a former mag editor, this seems magically swift... The eBay thing, if it comes to pass, might be cool anyway... I have to check on a personal quest first...I called in a huge favor to a close former-book-editor friend whose wife is head of art dept. at a major publishing house. She has colleagues at Bantam who may try and procure me a galley or reader copy. If not, the eBay auction would be nifty. I dunno if Fourthman is still around; last time he expressed interest in doing it again.
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	May 31st 11:24 AM Who gets to keep the actual manuscript though? So basically, if "we" outbid everyone, and it is $250.00, we split that cost among everyone, then we must pay for mail cost and copying cost to get our copy right?
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	May 31st 11:25 AM Why doesn't GRRM make it easy on us, forget his publishers, just make a bunch of copies and charge us all $20.00 for a copy..ehehhe
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 31st 11:27 AM The one who keeps the original, pays more. Just how much more is a matter of debate, but Greg paid five times the bottom contribution, IIRC.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 31st 11:37 AM Green Gerg, If they don't manage July, it'll be early August for certain. I've also full expectation that they'll manage July. He's already gotten the galleys to proof, and apparently they're running him hard to get it done ASAP (especially since he's leaving in July for Westercon.) Apparently the folk at Voyager are kept to strict deadlines. They might slip a couple of weeks, but I think July 17 might very well be in their reach -- but, as before with _A Clash of Kings_, I expect the speed will mean no new maps (argh), and minor little niggles that he'll correct in the U.S. edition. As for the MS issue ... that is one concern, how a group is going to deal with it. Getting four chapters photocopied is one thing -- and it still needed a lot of paper and a lot of heavy duty copiers, kindly donated by our favorite numerical person. I don't see how 39+ chapters (half MS) or 78+ chapters (full MS) can be copied and shipped both in quick enough time to make it worth it and cheap enough to not be prohibitive. Of course, there are other options, but for various reasons they are problematic.
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	May 31st 12:38 PM Get an estimate from kinkos on how much it will be, as soon as you get it, get them made and send them out once you get payment.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 31st 12:43 PM Notice that I mentioned "cheap enough." :) I am relatively certain that 750+ pages (for half the MS) will cost very, very much. The shipping for same, especially overseas, will also cost very, very much. I have a feeling that the group that does this will get a break on the copying, as last time ... but maybe so. I'm considering throwing in, but I'd like to see what arrangements could be made to bring down cost, and also when he'll actually put it up.
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	May 31st 12:47 PM Another option is to have someone put it online, on a passworded page, so only those who paid can view it...again, tons of problems with that, but no printing or shipping costs, and we can all wait till it actually comes out to read it on paper.
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	May 31st 12:52 PM Or someone could put it in an adobe acrobat file or word file and have it downloadable for people to reduce size and print if they like...either way there is no way to safeguard from others making copies or sending the file along...doesn't the publisher frown upon this kinda stuff from authors, to have the actual work go around before the book comes out? No offense to GRRM, but it seems to me he would sell anything of his to make a buck...cool for fans though!
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 31st 1:00 PM Not a bad idea, if one had an HTML wiz to set it up. It could be done, perhaps, to the degree that one might be able to both password protect the files and automatically refuse anyone not from the ISPs of the members of the group. Beating that requires hacking the server, essentially. Unfortunately, there's still the issue of keeping people from being able to copy-and-paste or save the HTML files, which would make the whole thing easily distrubatable. GRRM had no problem with a group photocopying to get it around amongst themselves, but dissemination over the Internet is a whole 'nother beast.
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	May 31st 1:02 PM That is true...but would be easiest...but you are correct, a file would be so easy to send to any of your friends or people who want to read it - I would feel cheated if i paid to get a first look at the story and some yahoo who knows someone can see it for free...
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 31st 1:08 PM The publisher certainly hasn't told him to stop, and he's been doing it since _A Game of Thrones_. I'm also rather certain they're aware of it. GRRM owns the text of his book. It's his. He's allowed to sell a reading MS if he desires, and within limits he can okay people to photocopy or share it. However, the odds of hundreds or thousands of people getting something distributed through paper is ... slim. There's always the risk that someone might decide to OCR a photocopy and post it on the Internet, but so far I've never seen it happen and don't expect to see it happen. We respect the work too much.
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	May 31st 1:11 PM Exactly...I agree...GRRM knows we are all going to buy his book, all of us who post here regularly...so why not let us read it for free? I would rather pay, say $35.00 right now and be able to 1) read aSoS manuscript now or soon, 2) have him sign a hardback copy and send it to me when it comes out. Makes sense to me.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 31st 1:19 PM Probably because GRRM is a good American. ;) If I were him, I wouldn't give away copies of my own hard work either. There's about two years of sweat and blood in that MS (figuratively, anyhow; if it were literal, there might be difficulty in photocopying it....)
Tom R. User ID: 3647314	Jun 4th 8:02 AM Well, who's going to copy this puppy for distribution and postage? What was the final manuscript page count? Yikes. I think I'll wait for the in-print version (I think ...).
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 4th 12:50 PM Ahh, you missed where GRRM said that he's decided against oferring it, at least before the published version. :)