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A Song of Ice and Fire / Announcements / A new site ...

Back 20 Messages

Ran
User ID: 0283314 Jun 20th 5:46 PM
Well, I suppose this might be considered a major announcement, so here goes.

The largest (I suspect) and the most specialized (I'm pretty sure) ASoIaF site on the 'Net is ready for semi-public consumption (meaning -- no linking, just like the old concordance page, and hopefully no passing information around about it to too many folk.)

What is it, exactly?

After many hours of work, and much trading of e-mail with Mr. Martin back and forth (including getting some of his notes), we have produced ...

A site devoted to the heraldry of Westeros.

<crickets chirp>

Okay, okay, hold the applause, don't need to hurt yourselves with enthusiasm . . . ;)

In any case, if you care, try:

http://members.xoom.com/Nymeria/Banners.html

<Note: Some of you, if you bother going and reading the text, will notice a little mention of a MUSH ... well, there's a reason I never messed around on the MUD thread. Of course, we're extremely patient people so we're not really budging from a date somewhere around the publishing of SoS, and maybe a few months more. Heh>

drone
User ID: 0087674 Nov 20th 8:39 PM
I am sure that it goes without saying but that web page is one of the best things I've seen out there and I've seen alot of them.

labor
User ID: 8785553 Nov 21st 4:46 AM

Great, Ran! I would only propose that on the main page the Houses existing at the time of Dunk and Egg, but extinct by ASOIAF, were marked somehow.

BTW, House Kettleblack? IIRC it was said about Osmund Kettleblack that he was "low-born, no more than a hedge knight". Was he granted lands and permission to found a House after the battle at KL?

Ran
User ID: 8075153 Nov 21st 6:27 AM
If you've got a last name, there's a house attached to it of some sort. You may not, properly, benefit from it ... but you keep the last name.

The very lowest class of hedge knight is someone like Ser Arlan of Pennytree -- decidedly low-born, a commoner who managed to claw his way to knighthood ... but not to a familial name (meaning that his direct line would, I suppose, be considered of the gentle class -- if very poor despite it.)

As one might recall, Janos Slynt was the son of a butcher -- but the last name indicates that they're direct descendants of some knight and his family, they've just moved down in the world.

Also, given the (**) marking, I imagine Martin means to say that there are Kettleblacks who aren't exactly hedge knights -- no lands, but they've given hereditary service to some lord or other.

labor
User ID: 8785553 Nov 21st 11:34 AM
Yes, but wasn't there talk about Slynt's "new-minted House", somewhere? To me it would suggest that while the Slynts retained their last name, they weren't considered a House until Janos was granted Harrenhal. And they didn't have a coat of arms either until Janos chose one.

Ran
User ID: 8075153 Nov 21st 11:56 AM
Slynt started a new-minted house proper, yes. But it's more like the issue of separate branches (the two Vance houses, the two Fossoway branches) than really meaning separate houses.

Of course, it may well be that the Slynts as a class of knights with the right to bear arms no longer exist, and haven't existed for a couple hundred years, but their name has lingered.

Certainly, Martin hasn't given us two Slynt listings, so I suspect the scenario in the above paragraph is correct:

There was a House Slynt, they fell out of bearing arms (third son of a third son and then all his descendants -- something like that, basically: an obscure and indirect link to the armigerous branch), fell to common rank (but you don't just remove a last name -- that seems to last forever), and recently came up as a new house bearing new arms, rights, titles, lands, etc.

BTW, some new additions on both pages. The most noteworthy would be Dunk's arms as described in "The Hedge Knight."

John
User ID: 8116813 Nov 22nd 0:33 AM
>>... We also have the listing of all the Lord of >>Harrenhal and their heraldry, the houses of >>Urron Redhand and Harren the Black, and the old >>River kings (or, at least, some of the old >>River kings.)

Definitely interested.

Ran
User ID: 8075153 Nov 22nd 5:03 AM
Those would be in the Banners-Extra.html page. :)

Urron Redhand's house would be House Greyiron. That of Harren the Black would be House Hoare (the founder of the house would be King Qhored, who ruled from Bear Island (the trees) to the Arbor (the grapes) and also controlled Oldtown (the ravens.)

The Riverkings are all marked. The Mudds would have been the last dynasty of First Men to rule before the Andals swept them away.

The only really interesting note for the Harrenhal lords would be the one marked H1 -- House Qoherys. The first lord of that house was a Valyrian from Dragonstone who had been a companion to Aegon and his sisters.

labor
User ID: 1891784 Nov 25th 5:07 AM
Did GRRM already disclosed the arms of Tarbecks and Reynes? BTW, I have noticed that the email about them, their destruction and Lord Tytos being a pushover isn't on the SoSpake Martin site.

Ran
User ID: 8075153 Nov 25th 6:06 AM
That's because Martin may still fiddle with the things. I figure that detail should probably wait until after SoS or until I learn some more. :)

The Reynes have been up for awhile and would be in Banners.html in the Westerlands.

Nothing on the Tarbecks, though. Probably after GRRM has time (as in, post-finishing the MS) we expect to get another file from him containing new arms and things like that. That's probably when we'll get the Tarbecks. :)

Ran
User ID: 8075153 Dec 10th 2:26 PM
For those interested,

We're in the process of moving the So Spake Martin collection and the heraldry material to our new domain, www.westeros.org (which GRRM graciously allowed us to register.) It'll take a couple days more, I believe, for the heraldry to get done ... but once it is, we'll start shutting it down. ALl new updates will be done on Westeros.org and the like.

In any case, check out www.westeros.org, which shall also serve as the splash page for a much more comprehensive fansite (still being worked on for the forseeable future) and the Blood of Dragons MUSH website (also still being worked on.)

There's a text link under the gargoyles which leads to a page that'll provide links to the heraldry site and the SSM collection. :)

labor
User ID: 8785553 Dec 10th 4:36 PM
Very interesting. And heraldy is almost complete . It will be one awesome site when it is finished...

Anyway,I noticed that Reynes also carried a lion on their coat-of-arms - could they have been a very distant offshoot of the Lannisters, (through some bastard perhaps?) ? Maybe it was part of a the reason for their belligerence...

BTW, I really like the supplement page. Perhaps on the main page the Houses extinct by the time of ASOIAF could be marked somehow also?

Ran
User ID: 8075153 Dec 10th 4:47 PM
Well, they might have been related, who knows. :)

Martin does say they were the wealthiest and most powerful of the Lannister bannermen, so they might well have been some sort of offshoot that was closely related.

On the other hand, they might simply have taken arms related to that of their lords (a fairly typical thing IRL and in Martin's setting -- lots of yellow and black in the Stormlands, moons and sky blues in the Eyrie, etc.)

As to extinct-by-ASoIaF, well, not quite sure if we'd do that on that one, since it's primarily a resource for the MUSH and would just confuse issues.

On the other hand, in the future we intend to re-do it all in a new format, and intend to follow up on your suggestion of providing notes concerning any extra information we might have about houses (meaning of name/arms, when established, and other trivia, etc.) and that would include the fact that it's dead by the books if that's the case.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Apr 24th 2:26 PM
As some maybe have noticed already, we've done a fairly big change to our heraldry at Westeros.org. Things are going to be changing slowly but surely, as there are some things we're not happy with (like the lengths of some texts, and the layout for long text, etc.) and errors we'll probably weed out, but it's more or less set. This is sort of a preview for what the Citadel will eventually have.

Note: Javascript must be enabled to view these pages correctly. If you don't want to use Javascript, you'll have to type things manually such as typing in:

www.westeros.org/Heraldry/Targaryen.html

The webpage proper is at:

www.westeros.org/Heraldry/Banners.html

Back 20 Messages

Ran User ID: 0283314	Jun 20th 5:46 PM Well, I suppose this might be considered a major announcement, so here goes. The largest (I suspect) and the most specialized (I'm pretty sure) ASoIaF site on the 'Net is ready for semi-public consumption (meaning -- no linking, just like the old concordance page, and hopefully no passing information around about it to too many folk.) What is it, exactly? After many hours of work, and much trading of e-mail with Mr. Martin back and forth (including getting some of his notes), we have produced ... A site devoted to the heraldry of Westeros. <crickets chirp> Okay, okay, hold the applause, don't need to hurt yourselves with enthusiasm . . . ;) In any case, if you care, try: http://members.xoom.com/Nymeria/Banners.html <Note: Some of you, if you bother going and reading the text, will notice a little mention of a MUSH ... well, there's a reason I never messed around on the MUD thread. Of course, we're extremely patient people so we're not really budging from a date somewhere around the publishing of SoS, and maybe a few months more. Heh>
drone User ID: 0087674	Nov 20th 8:39 PM I am sure that it goes without saying but that web page is one of the best things I've seen out there and I've seen alot of them.
labor User ID: 8785553	Nov 21st 4:46 AM Great, Ran! I would only propose that on the main page the Houses existing at the time of Dunk and Egg, but extinct by ASOIAF, were marked somehow. BTW, House Kettleblack? IIRC it was said about Osmund Kettleblack that he was "low-born, no more than a hedge knight". Was he granted lands and permission to found a House after the battle at KL?
Ran User ID: 8075153	Nov 21st 6:27 AM If you've got a last name, there's a house attached to it of some sort. You may not, properly, benefit from it ... but you keep the last name. The very lowest class of hedge knight is someone like Ser Arlan of Pennytree -- decidedly low-born, a commoner who managed to claw his way to knighthood ... but not to a familial name (meaning that his direct line would, I suppose, be considered of the gentle class -- if very poor despite it.) As one might recall, Janos Slynt was the son of a butcher -- but the last name indicates that they're direct descendants of some knight and his family, they've just moved down in the world. Also, given the (**) marking, I imagine Martin means to say that there are Kettleblacks who aren't exactly hedge knights -- no lands, but they've given hereditary service to some lord or other.
labor User ID: 8785553	Nov 21st 11:34 AM Yes, but wasn't there talk about Slynt's "new-minted House", somewhere? To me it would suggest that while the Slynts retained their last name, they weren't considered a House until Janos was granted Harrenhal. And they didn't have a coat of arms either until Janos chose one.
Ran User ID: 8075153	Nov 21st 11:56 AM Slynt started a new-minted house proper, yes. But it's more like the issue of separate branches (the two Vance houses, the two Fossoway branches) than really meaning separate houses. Of course, it may well be that the Slynts as a class of knights with the right to bear arms no longer exist, and haven't existed for a couple hundred years, but their name has lingered. Certainly, Martin hasn't given us two Slynt listings, so I suspect the scenario in the above paragraph is correct: There was a House Slynt, they fell out of bearing arms (third son of a third son and then all his descendants -- something like that, basically: an obscure and indirect link to the armigerous branch), fell to common rank (but you don't just remove a last name -- that seems to last forever), and recently came up as a new house bearing new arms, rights, titles, lands, etc. BTW, some new additions on both pages. The most noteworthy would be Dunk's arms as described in "The Hedge Knight."
John User ID: 8116813	Nov 22nd 0:33 AM >>... We also have the listing of all the Lord of >>Harrenhal and their heraldry, the houses of >>Urron Redhand and Harren the Black, and the old >>River kings (or, at least, some of the old >>River kings.) Definitely interested.
Ran User ID: 8075153	Nov 22nd 5:03 AM Those would be in the Banners-Extra.html page. :) Urron Redhand's house would be House Greyiron. That of Harren the Black would be House Hoare (the founder of the house would be King Qhored, who ruled from Bear Island (the trees) to the Arbor (the grapes) and also controlled Oldtown (the ravens.) The Riverkings are all marked. The Mudds would have been the last dynasty of First Men to rule before the Andals swept them away. The only really interesting note for the Harrenhal lords would be the one marked H1 -- House Qoherys. The first lord of that house was a Valyrian from Dragonstone who had been a companion to Aegon and his sisters.
labor User ID: 1891784	Nov 25th 5:07 AM Did GRRM already disclosed the arms of Tarbecks and Reynes? BTW, I have noticed that the email about them, their destruction and Lord Tytos being a pushover isn't on the SoSpake Martin site.
Ran User ID: 8075153	Nov 25th 6:06 AM That's because Martin may still fiddle with the things. I figure that detail should probably wait until after SoS or until I learn some more. :) The Reynes have been up for awhile and would be in Banners.html in the Westerlands. Nothing on the Tarbecks, though. Probably after GRRM has time (as in, post-finishing the MS) we expect to get another file from him containing new arms and things like that. That's probably when we'll get the Tarbecks. :)
Ran User ID: 8075153	Dec 10th 2:26 PM For those interested, We're in the process of moving the So Spake Martin collection and the heraldry material to our new domain, www.westeros.org (which GRRM graciously allowed us to register.) It'll take a couple days more, I believe, for the heraldry to get done ... but once it is, we'll start shutting it down. ALl new updates will be done on Westeros.org and the like. In any case, check out www.westeros.org, which shall also serve as the splash page for a much more comprehensive fansite (still being worked on for the forseeable future) and the Blood of Dragons MUSH website (also still being worked on.) There's a text link under the gargoyles which leads to a page that'll provide links to the heraldry site and the SSM collection. :)
labor User ID: 8785553	Dec 10th 4:36 PM Very interesting. And heraldy is almost complete . It will be one awesome site when it is finished... Anyway,I noticed that Reynes also carried a lion on their coat-of-arms - could they have been a very distant offshoot of the Lannisters, (through some bastard perhaps?) ? Maybe it was part of a the reason for their belligerence... BTW, I really like the supplement page. Perhaps on the main page the Houses extinct by the time of ASOIAF could be marked somehow also?
Ran User ID: 8075153	Dec 10th 4:47 PM Well, they might have been related, who knows. :) Martin does say they were the wealthiest and most powerful of the Lannister bannermen, so they might well have been some sort of offshoot that was closely related. On the other hand, they might simply have taken arms related to that of their lords (a fairly typical thing IRL and in Martin's setting -- lots of yellow and black in the Stormlands, moons and sky blues in the Eyrie, etc.) As to extinct-by-ASoIaF, well, not quite sure if we'd do that on that one, since it's primarily a resource for the MUSH and would just confuse issues. On the other hand, in the future we intend to re-do it all in a new format, and intend to follow up on your suggestion of providing notes concerning any extra information we might have about houses (meaning of name/arms, when established, and other trivia, etc.) and that would include the fact that it's dead by the books if that's the case.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Apr 24th 2:26 PM As some maybe have noticed already, we've done a fairly big change to our heraldry at Westeros.org. Things are going to be changing slowly but surely, as there are some things we're not happy with (like the lengths of some texts, and the layout for long text, etc.) and errors we'll probably weed out, but it's more or less set. This is sort of a preview for what the Citadel will eventually have. Note: Javascript must be enabled to view these pages correctly. If you don't want to use Javascript, you'll have to type things manually such as typing in: www.westeros.org/Heraldry/Targaryen.html The webpage proper is at: www.westeros.org/Heraldry/Banners.html