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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings III / Robert's claim to throne

Casper
User ID: 9405543 Jul 5th 10:05 AM
Forgive me if this is stupid--but what is the justification for Robert's ascension to the throne? He didn't appear to have any claim by blood. Was it simply because he was the leader of the uprising and/or the killer of Rhaegar?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jul 5th 10:36 AM
That is, by far, the main of it. Of the three ringleaders of the rebellion, he was certainly the chief. Further, of the three, he did have the best claim by blood -- Renly alludes to a marriage in the past between a Targaryen and a Baratheon, from which he and his elder siblings are descended.

Casper
User ID: 9405543 Jul 5th 10:49 AM
Thanks. Yes, I believe GRRM says the Baratheon house is an old offshoot from the Targaryens, possibly as a result of a bastard. Seemed like a pretty slender reed to establish legitimacy, though, which is why I figured it just came to Robert since he earned it, so to speak.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jul 5th 11:03 AM
Well, that's a separate thing. Orys Baratheon was the bastard brother of Aegon the Conqueror. But there's been a more recent connection between the Baratheons and the Targaryens. Certainly, it's a slender thread to establish legitimacy. That's what Renly argues, in any case -- for him, might made right, and he knew that was what sat Robert on the throne, not some marriage a hundred years back. :)

So, anyhow, primarily it was leading the rebellion. Jon Arryn, NEd Stark, and Robert Baratheon were the obvious choices for sitting on the throne. Ned wanted no part of it, Jon was too old and heirless, and Robert was the one with the drops of Taragaryen blood .. so.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Jul 5th 11:26 AM
Was Robert actually the one officially leading the rebellion?

I seem to recall that it was Jon Arryn, and that Robert's ascension was worked out afterwards...

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jul 5th 11:33 AM
Don't recall that one. GRRM certainly refers to the troops at the Trident being Robert's, if I remember rightly. He took the forefront. Jon Arryn _began_ the rebellion by raising his banners against Aerys after Aerys demanded the heads of his wards, but Robert certainly seemed the most driven and Eddard seemed to play second-fiddle to his foster brother (of sorts.)

Indeed, I'm not really sure if Jon Arryn ever actually went far past the Vale (beyond his marriage to Lysa), because he's not referred to as being a part of the battle of the Trident in any fashion. It was Robert who gave Eddard the troops to go to KL to continue the pursuit, not Jon.

Brady
User ID: 0721754 Jul 5th 8:04 PM
The war is also known to some as Roberts Rebellion, so I think yes he was the leading figure. Young Robert strikes me as an inspirational leader that men will follow to hell, and he was no doubt very passionate in his hatred of the Targaryens as he believed they kidnapped his betrothed

Rania
User ID: 2686314 Jul 6th 11:41 PM
Ran,
Could you tell me where and when Orys Baratheon is mentioned?
I think that war is named Robert's Rebellion mostly because Robert became king at the end of it.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jul 7th 5:19 AM
Rania,

It's in the Baratheon section of the appendix. :)

Casper User ID: 9405543	Jul 5th 10:05 AM Forgive me if this is stupid--but what is the justification for Robert's ascension to the throne? He didn't appear to have any claim by blood. Was it simply because he was the leader of the uprising and/or the killer of Rhaegar?
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jul 5th 10:36 AM That is, by far, the main of it. Of the three ringleaders of the rebellion, he was certainly the chief. Further, of the three, he did have the best claim by blood -- Renly alludes to a marriage in the past between a Targaryen and a Baratheon, from which he and his elder siblings are descended.
Casper User ID: 9405543	Jul 5th 10:49 AM Thanks. Yes, I believe GRRM says the Baratheon house is an old offshoot from the Targaryens, possibly as a result of a bastard. Seemed like a pretty slender reed to establish legitimacy, though, which is why I figured it just came to Robert since he earned it, so to speak.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jul 5th 11:03 AM Well, that's a separate thing. Orys Baratheon was the bastard brother of Aegon the Conqueror. But there's been a more recent connection between the Baratheons and the Targaryens. Certainly, it's a slender thread to establish legitimacy. That's what Renly argues, in any case -- for him, might made right, and he knew that was what sat Robert on the throne, not some marriage a hundred years back. :) So, anyhow, primarily it was leading the rebellion. Jon Arryn, NEd Stark, and Robert Baratheon were the obvious choices for sitting on the throne. Ned wanted no part of it, Jon was too old and heirless, and Robert was the one with the drops of Taragaryen blood .. so.
KAH User ID: 0541004	Jul 5th 11:26 AM Was Robert actually the one officially leading the rebellion? I seem to recall that it was Jon Arryn, and that Robert's ascension was worked out afterwards...
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jul 5th 11:33 AM Don't recall that one. GRRM certainly refers to the troops at the Trident being Robert's, if I remember rightly. He took the forefront. Jon Arryn _began_ the rebellion by raising his banners against Aerys after Aerys demanded the heads of his wards, but Robert certainly seemed the most driven and Eddard seemed to play second-fiddle to his foster brother (of sorts.) Indeed, I'm not really sure if Jon Arryn ever actually went far past the Vale (beyond his marriage to Lysa), because he's not referred to as being a part of the battle of the Trident in any fashion. It was Robert who gave Eddard the troops to go to KL to continue the pursuit, not Jon.
Brady User ID: 0721754	Jul 5th 8:04 PM The war is also known to some as Roberts Rebellion, so I think yes he was the leading figure. Young Robert strikes me as an inspirational leader that men will follow to hell, and he was no doubt very passionate in his hatred of the Targaryens as he believed they kidnapped his betrothed
Rania User ID: 2686314	Jul 6th 11:41 PM Ran, Could you tell me where and when Orys Baratheon is mentioned? I think that war is named Robert's Rebellion mostly because Robert became king at the end of it.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jul 7th 5:19 AM Rania, It's in the Baratheon section of the appendix. :)