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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings III / Bastards names

Hodor
User ID: 0819174 Aug 9th 3:15 PM
we know about the following bastard names:
north-Snow
river lands-Rivers
the vale-Stone
the west-Hill(?)
the storm lands-Storm
the reach-Flower
but what about other places?my guesses are:
dragonstone-Rock
dorne-Sun
iron islands-Iron

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 9th 3:46 PM
Hill is right for the westerlands. The Iron Islands is Pyke. Dorne is Sand. No idea about Dragonstone -- I think it'd be something watery, though, or to do with fire, and not with stone since the Vale has that pegged.

Markus
User ID: 8820133 Aug 9th 3:51 PM
The bastard of Driftmark, at least, is called Aurane Waters.

Rania
User ID: 0283314 Aug 10th 1:17 AM
Who is the bastard of Driftmark ? and where does he come from?
Also what is the bastard name for King's Landing?
We know at least Gendry is from there and we dont know his last name.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 4:47 AM
KL has no known bastard name.

Aurane is the Bastard of Driftmark. Probably a half-sibling to Lord Monford Velaryon. He's mentioned towards the end of CoK, among the people captured at the Blackwater and brought before Joffrey.

Rania
User ID: 0283314 Aug 10th 9:06 AM
so Water is the bastard name for Dragonstone?
And why doesn't King's Landing have a bastard name?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 9:23 AM
Because we don't know it. ;) It isn't mentioned.

Rania
User ID: 0283314 Aug 10th 9:33 AM
Can somoene ask GRRM?
Or is KL part of a geographical area?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 9:54 AM
Folk have asked GRRM about bastard names before. He says he won't reveal them until they're in the books, which I suppose means that he doesn't bother making them until he actually needs them.

ADwD should give us the bastard name for KL, given Lollys's bastard.

Ran
User ID: 0283314 Aug 10th 11:15 AM
Dont you think that it is odd though that Gendry who is known to be both bastard and King's Landing born does not have a bastard name?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 11:21 AM
That last Ran is Rania minus the -ia. ;)

I don't think it odd. The bastard name is given to acknowledged noble bastards, and Gendry isn't that.

Ran
User ID: 9433023 Aug 10th 1:57 PM
Actually it's Alex Paradi, but I just thought I'd continue the trend.

Wouldn't all single mother children have the official Bastard last name? Or would they just take their mothers last name? Or would an unmarried woman even be able to keep their child?

The senario that I'm thinking of here is this. Nobleman/Kight/Etc. goes out and gets some unmarried stable girl preggers. There is no need for the father to acknowledge the child, especially if the stable girl is know to have more than one partner. So with the father unknown - what does the girl do? What happens to the kid?

Do peasents even have last names?

Alex

Rania Aug 10th 2:06 PM
Wasn't Cotter Pyke presented as the baseborn son of a tavern wench?�He certainly isn't the son of some king or nobleman.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 2:10 PM
Ack. No trend, folks. It gets confusing. ;)

Alex,

Peasants in general do not have last names. Some few might -- people who are in the uppery peasantry or lower merchantry, people long fallen from some knightly or noble height but clinging to the name, and so on -- but in general, nope. So in the case you posit, the kid would just have his first name.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 2:13 PM
My understanding is that Cotter Pyke might be the "baseborn" son of a tavern wench, but the base person was the wench, not the father.

It could be that the Iron Isles carry a different tradition, of course. It might also be that you can have a bastard name if your father and/or mother carry a last name, regardless of nobility. We've learned that there are baseborn folk lugging around last names, in any case.

Hodor User ID: 0819174	Aug 9th 3:15 PM we know about the following bastard names: north-Snow river lands-Rivers the vale-Stone the west-Hill(?) the storm lands-Storm the reach-Flower but what about other places?my guesses are: dragonstone-Rock dorne-Sun iron islands-Iron
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 9th 3:46 PM Hill is right for the westerlands. The Iron Islands is Pyke. Dorne is Sand. No idea about Dragonstone -- I think it'd be something watery, though, or to do with fire, and not with stone since the Vale has that pegged.
Markus User ID: 8820133	Aug 9th 3:51 PM The bastard of Driftmark, at least, is called Aurane Waters.
Rania User ID: 0283314	Aug 10th 1:17 AM Who is the bastard of Driftmark ? and where does he come from? Also what is the bastard name for King's Landing? We know at least Gendry is from there and we dont know his last name.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 4:47 AM KL has no known bastard name. Aurane is the Bastard of Driftmark. Probably a half-sibling to Lord Monford Velaryon. He's mentioned towards the end of CoK, among the people captured at the Blackwater and brought before Joffrey.
Rania User ID: 0283314	Aug 10th 9:06 AM so Water is the bastard name for Dragonstone? And why doesn't King's Landing have a bastard name?
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 9:23 AM Because we don't know it. ;) It isn't mentioned.
Rania User ID: 0283314	Aug 10th 9:33 AM Can somoene ask GRRM? Or is KL part of a geographical area?
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 9:54 AM Folk have asked GRRM about bastard names before. He says he won't reveal them until they're in the books, which I suppose means that he doesn't bother making them until he actually needs them. ADwD should give us the bastard name for KL, given Lollys's bastard.
Ran User ID: 0283314	Aug 10th 11:15 AM Dont you think that it is odd though that Gendry who is known to be both bastard and King's Landing born does not have a bastard name?
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 11:21 AM That last Ran is Rania minus the -ia. ;) I don't think it odd. The bastard name is given to acknowledged noble bastards, and Gendry isn't that.
Ran User ID: 9433023	Aug 10th 1:57 PM Actually it's Alex Paradi, but I just thought I'd continue the trend. Wouldn't all single mother children have the official Bastard last name? Or would they just take their mothers last name? Or would an unmarried woman even be able to keep their child? The senario that I'm thinking of here is this. Nobleman/Kight/Etc. goes out and gets some unmarried stable girl preggers. There is no need for the father to acknowledge the child, especially if the stable girl is know to have more than one partner. So with the father unknown - what does the girl do? What happens to the kid? Do peasents even have last names? Alex
Rania	Aug 10th 2:06 PM Wasn't Cotter Pyke presented as the baseborn son of a tavern wench?�He certainly isn't the son of some king or nobleman.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 2:10 PM Ack. No trend, folks. It gets confusing. ;) Alex, Peasants in general do not have last names. Some few might -- people who are in the uppery peasantry or lower merchantry, people long fallen from some knightly or noble height but clinging to the name, and so on -- but in general, nope. So in the case you posit, the kid would just have his first name.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 2:13 PM My understanding is that Cotter Pyke might be the "baseborn" son of a tavern wench, but the base person was the wench, not the father. It could be that the Iron Isles carry a different tradition, of course. It might also be that you can have a bastard name if your father and/or mother carry a last name, regardless of nobility. We've learned that there are baseborn folk lugging around last names, in any case.