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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings III / Needle

Nynaeve
User ID: 2345204 May 24th 11:46 PM
Do you think Arya will get Needle back? He's on her list of people to kill. It just seems unfair she should have lost it so pitifully, so early on.

Nyn

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 25th 9:01 AM
Isn't it that Polliver guy who has Needle now?

I wonder if he lived through the Stone Mill...

Padraig
User ID: 1258494 May 25th 1:30 PM
She has the stumble across Needle in aSoS. But OTOH I spent most of aCok waiting for her to meet Nymeria again.

Brady
User ID: 0721754 May 25th 9:49 PM
I definetly think she will run into Gregor and his men again. My theory is that she will meet up with Beric Dondarrions group, and through her we will learn if he really is alive or dead (my vote is dead)
I also think Gendry will get his helmet back

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 26th 5:15 AM
If Dondarrion _is_ dead, I wonder who is impersonating him. I don't think Thoros could do it - he's apparently somewhat portly. :P

labor
User ID: 0798784 May 26th 8:15 AM
My guess is, Alyn, Ned's captain of the household guard after Jory's death. The one who wanted to be a knight.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 26th 2:50 PM
I suppose...he was not as good a fighter as Jory, ISTR. But I guess fighting prowess is not necessarily important for keeping the 'myth' alive... :P

Markus
User ID: 8820133 May 26th 2:54 PM
Isn't it more likely that more than just one person was mistakenly assumed to be Beric? After all, we've heard that he was killed _several_ times.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 26th 3:06 PM
I'm with Markus. I suspect Alyn would have been one to don the mantle of Beric, and if that's the case than he's probably dead.

labor
User ID: 0798784 May 26th 3:55 PM
Well, I think that Alyn is the current "Beric". After all killing off all recognizable Winterfellians would be a bit too much. Realism doesn't mean that everyone in service to House stark should automatically drop dead like flies. That would be overboard. A few pitiful remains shpould persist - Alyn, Jeyne Poole, Osha...

Brady
User ID: 0721754 May 26th 9:05 PM
I think that some of the northmen with Thoros are definetly still alive. As to Alyns fighting abilities, it was mentioned that he was to become a knight, so he must be more than adequate. He wasnt as good as Jory, but Jory was one of Neds best warriors

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 27th 7:42 AM
Brady;

Was it mentioned if he _was_ to become a knight, or if he _want's_ to do so? ISTR the latter...

The only thing we see of fighting prowess on Alyn's part was the tourney, where he was unhorsed in the first tilt.

labor
User ID: 0798784 May 27th 10:25 AM
Well, Ned took "the cream of his guard" to KL and Alyn was more or less Jory's XO, so Ned apparently thought highly of him, tilting mishaps nowithstanding. BTW who unhorsed Alyn?

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 27th 11:24 AM
I'm not sure who unhorsed him...a Royce, mayhaps, or Lothor Brune?

Markus
User ID: 8820133 May 27th 11:43 AM
Balon Swann.

As for knighthood, I think it was Sansa who said that Alyn was going to be a knight one day.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Alyn is very competent, being Jory's second in command.

MAD-ness
User ID: 3612744 May 29th 5:43 PM
Also keep in mind that the men of the North do not train and fight in the same fasion as the southrons. They do not have "tournies" and, as Eddard Stark pointed out, war should not be made into a game.

My guess is that the men of the north are as good or better than the southern knights with swords and with warfare in general, it is just a different style. Eddard did manage to kill quite a few worthy opponents during the War of the Usurper. Didn't he kill the 3 KingsGaurds with Rheagar on the Trident? Also, he and 6 other men faced three KingsGaurds when he went for Lyanna. Gerold HighTower, Ser Arthur Dayne and one other. Only Eddard and Reed survived. Remember Arthur Dayne was Lord of the Morning or something like that and is sung of as a great hero of the ages, etc, etc. Anyways, I think that the North produces very good fighting men, but they avoid most of the idiocy of southern wars. The numbers are not as great, the honor code is not as strict, etc.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 29th 6:02 PM
Who fought and killed the other two Kingsguards (aside from Ser Barristan) at the Ruby Ford, is unknown.
Eddard were almost killed by Dayne, at the Tower of Joy. We don't know much more than that.

According to GRRM, Eddard was adequate in swordplay, nothing more. In contrast with his brother Brandon, who apparently was top-notch.

Brady
User ID: 0721754 May 29th 8:19 PM
Didnt Jason Mallister kill some of those Kingsguard? I remember that he was a good fighter.
One of Neds guards, Desmond, claimed that northmen were worth ten southron swords, but this sounds like a boast.

Moreta
User ID: 0701364 May 29th 11:36 PM
Yes, it was a boast, a boast void when Desmond died at the hands of Lannisters.

Jason Mallister didn't kill anyone of the Kingsguard, but he did cut down some of Rhaegar's bannermen on the Trident if I remember correctly.

Nynaeve User ID: 2345204	May 24th 11:46 PM Do you think Arya will get Needle back? He's on her list of people to kill. It just seems unfair she should have lost it so pitifully, so early on. Nyn
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 25th 9:01 AM Isn't it that Polliver guy who has Needle now? I wonder if he lived through the Stone Mill...
Padraig User ID: 1258494	May 25th 1:30 PM She has the stumble across Needle in aSoS. But OTOH I spent most of aCok waiting for her to meet Nymeria again.
Brady User ID: 0721754	May 25th 9:49 PM I definetly think she will run into Gregor and his men again. My theory is that she will meet up with Beric Dondarrions group, and through her we will learn if he really is alive or dead (my vote is dead) I also think Gendry will get his helmet back
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 26th 5:15 AM If Dondarrion _is_ dead, I wonder who is impersonating him. I don't think Thoros could do it - he's apparently somewhat portly. :P
labor User ID: 0798784	May 26th 8:15 AM My guess is, Alyn, Ned's captain of the household guard after Jory's death. The one who wanted to be a knight.
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 26th 2:50 PM I suppose...he was not as good a fighter as Jory, ISTR. But I guess fighting prowess is not necessarily important for keeping the 'myth' alive... :P
Markus User ID: 8820133	May 26th 2:54 PM Isn't it more likely that more than just one person was mistakenly assumed to be Beric? After all, we've heard that he was killed _several_ times.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 26th 3:06 PM I'm with Markus. I suspect Alyn would have been one to don the mantle of Beric, and if that's the case than he's probably dead.
labor User ID: 0798784	May 26th 3:55 PM Well, I think that Alyn is the current "Beric". After all killing off all recognizable Winterfellians would be a bit too much. Realism doesn't mean that everyone in service to House stark should automatically drop dead like flies. That would be overboard. A few pitiful remains shpould persist - Alyn, Jeyne Poole, Osha...
Brady User ID: 0721754	May 26th 9:05 PM I think that some of the northmen with Thoros are definetly still alive. As to Alyns fighting abilities, it was mentioned that he was to become a knight, so he must be more than adequate. He wasnt as good as Jory, but Jory was one of Neds best warriors
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 27th 7:42 AM Brady; Was it mentioned if he _was_ to become a knight, or if he _want's_ to do so? ISTR the latter... The only thing we see of fighting prowess on Alyn's part was the tourney, where he was unhorsed in the first tilt.
labor User ID: 0798784	May 27th 10:25 AM Well, Ned took "the cream of his guard" to KL and Alyn was more or less Jory's XO, so Ned apparently thought highly of him, tilting mishaps nowithstanding. BTW who unhorsed Alyn?
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 27th 11:24 AM I'm not sure who unhorsed him...a Royce, mayhaps, or Lothor Brune?
Markus User ID: 8820133	May 27th 11:43 AM Balon Swann. As for knighthood, I think it was Sansa who said that Alyn was going to be a knight one day. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Alyn is very competent, being Jory's second in command.
MAD-ness User ID: 3612744	May 29th 5:43 PM Also keep in mind that the men of the North do not train and fight in the same fasion as the southrons. They do not have "tournies" and, as Eddard Stark pointed out, war should not be made into a game. My guess is that the men of the north are as good or better than the southern knights with swords and with warfare in general, it is just a different style. Eddard did manage to kill quite a few worthy opponents during the War of the Usurper. Didn't he kill the 3 KingsGaurds with Rheagar on the Trident? Also, he and 6 other men faced three KingsGaurds when he went for Lyanna. Gerold HighTower, Ser Arthur Dayne and one other. Only Eddard and Reed survived. Remember Arthur Dayne was Lord of the Morning or something like that and is sung of as a great hero of the ages, etc, etc. Anyways, I think that the North produces very good fighting men, but they avoid most of the idiocy of southern wars. The numbers are not as great, the honor code is not as strict, etc.
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 29th 6:02 PM Who fought and killed the other two Kingsguards (aside from Ser Barristan) at the Ruby Ford, is unknown. Eddard were almost killed by Dayne, at the Tower of Joy. We don't know much more than that. According to GRRM, Eddard was adequate in swordplay, nothing more. In contrast with his brother Brandon, who apparently was top-notch.
Brady User ID: 0721754	May 29th 8:19 PM Didnt Jason Mallister kill some of those Kingsguard? I remember that he was a good fighter. One of Neds guards, Desmond, claimed that northmen were worth ten southron swords, but this sounds like a boast.
Moreta User ID: 0701364	May 29th 11:36 PM Yes, it was a boast, a boast void when Desmond died at the hands of Lannisters. Jason Mallister didn't kill anyone of the Kingsguard, but he did cut down some of Rhaegar's bannermen on the Trident if I remember correctly.