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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / New POV's

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Aemon
User ID: 9301033 Sep 6th 2:52 PM
I'm not sure if this have been discussed, but someone said that there would be a couple new POV's in the next book. Who do you want them to be?

Claidhaim
User ID: 9544623 Sep 7th 8:37 AM
Well, we know that Theon is gone (not a POV) and Sam Tarly has been added, as well as some mysterious character only GRRM and Revanshe know about. And Rev has been tighter than a drum on this one. Not a peep.

Flayed Man
User ID: 8771373 Sep 9th 0:53 AM
I wonder why did Mr Martin Told Revanshe??? can anyone tell me why? does she have some strong connection with him? If she is a fan just like us why did he not tell us?

Ran
User ID: 0283314 Sep 9th 8:02 AM
Maybe because Revanshe runs the biggest fan site for the series currently running, and she was the first person to ask him about the POVs.

I know that I've been asked to keep certain tidbits under the hat, so to speak, and I'm not even involved in a particularly large fan site.

I think Martin likes his fans, and on occassion he doesn't mind giving folk a little extra information with the provisio that they keep it to themselves.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 9th 8:04 AM
No idea.

Perhaps GRRM revealed the name to Revanshe in a weak moment, had second thoughts, and subsequently asked her not to reveal the name to others?

The other (and widely more popular) theory implies that Revanshe performed very bizarre sexual services for GRRM, including the use of various kitchen appliances, goose feathers and black goats (from Qohor?), in order to make him reveal the name.

Ahum. But I hastily rush out to say that _I've_ never believed those rumors. Revanshe would never be so uncultural as to use _black_ goats - the proper color should be off-white.

Swithin
User ID: 0443584 Sep 26th 7:39 AM
Kay-Arne (might I call you that? we've never been introduced.) Are you stooping so low as to call my perfectly functional black goats somehow inferior to your pretty in pink White Anglo Saxon Protestant ones!?! And you purport to talk about culture! This is the very kind of discrimination that we don't need on this board!

Disclaimer: I'm being 'trying to not sleep so as to sleep soundly tomorrow up reading Martin posts and trying to be funny' humourous. Of course, it's not working, but I did not mean to offende ANYONE with this post. As Groucho said, erm, something about discrimination???

haaruk Sep 26th 9:50 AM
Greetings Swithin. Welcome to the board. You are expected to offend any and everyone. Except for Haaruk who is a Saint.

One of the new POV's I would like to see is Asha.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 26th 11:37 AM
Swithin;

You may call me whatever you want, although KAH or Kay-Arne is the ones likely to make me understand that you're talking to me. :o)

As for the goats...I am most indignant with regards to your insinuations that I harbor any prejudice against black goats - that is patent untruth! For your information; some of my best friends are black goats!

I only claim that using black goats in the particular bizarre sexual experiments I was talking about, would not be appropriate. Black goats should _only_ be used in conjunction with Coke cans, chain mail and 36 ounces of nougat. This can be found in my 'Encylopedia Norwegica', in the section titled 'Bizarre sexual experiments and rituals'.

cgob
User ID: 0053014 Sep 27th 0:06 AM
Once again I am astounded by the many different facets of a situation that a gem like aSoIaF can produce. Rickon would be an interesting POV if he himself further develops a writable connection with Shaggydog as well as Tommen. Jorah Mormant's perspective could be instructive as well as he sees Dany develop into the inevitable protagonist she must become before she weds Robb.
A interesting POV could come from a character such as Hodor as to what he sees and understands from his limited perspective. Maybe even a non-speaking POV from one of the pups.
Perhaps even a POV from a summonded "other" or whatnot could add spice though that might be bringing already "dead" characters which I'd rather not see i.e. WOT.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 27th 3:41 AM
cgob;

I think we can rule out Rickon as a PoV - at least concerning aSoS, since he is so young. GRRM has stated that he finds it very difficult to write the children's PoVs.
Mormont is always a possibility, I guess...

doctor doom
User ID: 9649143 Sep 27th 11:31 AM
Everyone knows that Theon's POV is gone, and Samwell's is added. I heard that everyone else from CLASH OF KINGS is keeping their POV, plus another new one is added. Look at it from this way, every portion of the world has a POV. Samwell will be the new POV beyond the wall, so the only places without POVs are the North area (since Theon is gone, and Bran's POV is staying) and the deep south, around the Dorne area. I think that the new POV will either be Roose Bolton or his bastard Reek. Both are excellent choices for the new POV since both are backstabbing traitors. It is soooooo obvious that Roose knew and always knew about Reek's activities. How? He planned them! So, anyone who is mounting such a horrific rebellion against Robb needs to be heard.

Jeff
User ID: 0227464 Sep 27th 11:38 AM
Herr Doctor, I don't disagree that the Bastard's actions may be in accordance with Roose Bolton's general goals. But I think the situation in the North has been so fluid that Bolton could not possibly have predicted the course of events, so he could not have planned all of the Bastard's actions. So at least some of it -- such as the attack on Winterfell, almost had to be done by the Bastard on his own initiative.

doctor doom
User ID: 9649143 Sep 27th 12:18 PM
Hey Jeff, I don't know about that. Roose knew that Winterfell was virtually unguarded and he knew that if his bastard came bearing the flag of friendship, easy access would be forthcoming. He couldn't have known beforehand about Theon's taking over of Winterfell, that was an added bobus. But it is very possible that he planned to destroy Winterfell from the time he landed at Harrenthal.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 27th 12:23 PM
Roose could not have known that the Ironmen would have drawn most of the remaining power away from Winterfell.
It is a bit dubious if Ramsay could have taken it, had not the events played Ser Rodrik, Theon and the rest right into his hands.

doctor doom
User ID: 9649143 Sep 27th 12:37 PM
You're probably right about that. But I still think that Roose was planning to attack Winterfell beforehand, regardless of the remaining forces there. But, You're correct in that he probably didn't know about the Ironmen attacks.

doctor doom
User ID: 9649143 Sep 27th 12:55 PM
Here's a theory I want to test out. At the end of CLASH OF KINGS, Maester Luwin is dying and he calls the wildling woman Osha (I think her name is, I don't have my book here) and tells her something. We never hear what he tells her. So this is my theory, or two.
Since the rebirth of the dragons, there have been some remarks made about how some magic is starting to work again. Well, Luwin had a Maester's chain link devoted to magic and Osha, from beyond the wall still believes in magic. So, Luwin calls her over to help him or witness him preform a spell that heals him. Then he directs her to take Rickon to Old Town to meet up with him, in order to teach Rickon the ways of the Maester's magic. Or maybe he really did die, but asked Osha to take Rickon to Old Town for some other reason. You see, before this happened, Bran and everyone had decided to travel north. But then Osha comes back from taking to Luwin and says that she is taking Rickon south, so that the two wouldn't be together and make easy targets for death. I believe that she just said that to split the brothers up and take Rickon south. It also makes some senese, since almost all of Westros has been explored by the characters in some form or another, except for Old Town, where the Maesters are. Tell me how horribly wrong you think I am.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 27th 12:57 PM
I believe that Roose initially (whatever his intentions now are) had only limited ambitions in the North.

I'm guessing that Bolton might have set his bastard son on the Hornwoods. After all, it is a little peculiar that lord Hornwood was the only major lord that died when Bolton clashed with Tywin at the Green Fork.

Then, when Ramsay had established the sufficient link between house Bolton and house Hornwood by marrying the widow, Roose can simply waste Ramsay (for whatever crimes), and put forth a non-negligible claim for the Hornwood lands, which would increase his power much.

It would still depend on Robb OK'ing it, but
I think it would not be easy for Robb to bypass him without proper witnesses that can state that the marriage was done forcibly, and thus render the marriage null and void.

(of course, there's still Daryn Hornwood to account for, which is the dirty fly in my little Bolton soup)

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 27th 1:02 PM
About maester Luwin - I think he simply wanted to save the children the sight of seeing Osha relieving him of his pain.
IIRC, he muttered something about a 'last service' he wanted from her, and Osha consequently sent the kids away.

Jeff
User ID: 0227464 Sep 27th 1:39 PM
Kay-Arne, how would that have given Roose Bolton a "non-negligible claim"? I mean, the only claim would be through Ramsey's marriage to Lady Hornwood. Once Ramsey is "offed", there is no claim.

I think you're probably right about Luwin. the one thing that gives me pause is Doom's point about the link. Luwin makes a point very early on about how few maesters wear the mage's link. And we do know that magic is reviving in Westeros. It seems rather pointless to give Luwin this ability and then kill him off. On the other hand, having him survive would seem to violate GRRM's desire to leave dead people dead. Perhaps he had some icon or item of power that he wanted held for Bran.

Ran
User ID: 0283314 Sep 27th 2:01 PM
Mrm. Luwin was pretty adamant that maesters who study 'the higher mysteries' try their hand at it, eventually .... and find out that it never works.

I don't think Luwin had anything of peculiar magic, nor do I think he had any sort of item of magical power. I do believe he bought it.

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Aemon User ID: 9301033	Sep 6th 2:52 PM I'm not sure if this have been discussed, but someone said that there would be a couple new POV's in the next book. Who do you want them to be?
Claidhaim User ID: 9544623	Sep 7th 8:37 AM Well, we know that Theon is gone (not a POV) and Sam Tarly has been added, as well as some mysterious character only GRRM and Revanshe know about. And Rev has been tighter than a drum on this one. Not a peep.
Flayed Man User ID: 8771373	Sep 9th 0:53 AM I wonder why did Mr Martin Told Revanshe??? can anyone tell me why? does she have some strong connection with him? If she is a fan just like us why did he not tell us?
Ran User ID: 0283314	Sep 9th 8:02 AM Maybe because Revanshe runs the biggest fan site for the series currently running, and she was the first person to ask him about the POVs. I know that I've been asked to keep certain tidbits under the hat, so to speak, and I'm not even involved in a particularly large fan site. I think Martin likes his fans, and on occassion he doesn't mind giving folk a little extra information with the provisio that they keep it to themselves.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 9th 8:04 AM No idea. Perhaps GRRM revealed the name to Revanshe in a weak moment, had second thoughts, and subsequently asked her not to reveal the name to others? The other (and widely more popular) theory implies that Revanshe performed very bizarre sexual services for GRRM, including the use of various kitchen appliances, goose feathers and black goats (from Qohor?), in order to make him reveal the name. Ahum. But I hastily rush out to say that _I've_ never believed those rumors. Revanshe would never be so uncultural as to use _black_ goats - the proper color should be off-white.
Swithin User ID: 0443584	Sep 26th 7:39 AM Kay-Arne (might I call you that? we've never been introduced.) Are you stooping so low as to call my perfectly functional black goats somehow inferior to your pretty in pink White Anglo Saxon Protestant ones!?! And you purport to talk about culture! This is the very kind of discrimination that we don't need on this board! Disclaimer: I'm being 'trying to not sleep so as to sleep soundly tomorrow up reading Martin posts and trying to be funny' humourous. Of course, it's not working, but I did not mean to offende ANYONE with this post. As Groucho said, erm, something about discrimination???
haaruk	Sep 26th 9:50 AM Greetings Swithin. Welcome to the board. You are expected to offend any and everyone. Except for Haaruk who is a Saint. One of the new POV's I would like to see is Asha.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 26th 11:37 AM Swithin; You may call me whatever you want, although KAH or Kay-Arne is the ones likely to make me understand that you're talking to me. :o) As for the goats...I am most indignant with regards to your insinuations that I harbor any prejudice against black goats - that is patent untruth! For your information; some of my best friends are black goats! I only claim that using black goats in the particular bizarre sexual experiments I was talking about, would not be appropriate. Black goats should _only_ be used in conjunction with Coke cans, chain mail and 36 ounces of nougat. This can be found in my 'Encylopedia Norwegica', in the section titled 'Bizarre sexual experiments and rituals'.
cgob User ID: 0053014	Sep 27th 0:06 AM Once again I am astounded by the many different facets of a situation that a gem like aSoIaF can produce. Rickon would be an interesting POV if he himself further develops a writable connection with Shaggydog as well as Tommen. Jorah Mormant's perspective could be instructive as well as he sees Dany develop into the inevitable protagonist she must become before she weds Robb. A interesting POV could come from a character such as Hodor as to what he sees and understands from his limited perspective. Maybe even a non-speaking POV from one of the pups. Perhaps even a POV from a summonded "other" or whatnot could add spice though that might be bringing already "dead" characters which I'd rather not see i.e. WOT.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 27th 3:41 AM cgob; I think we can rule out Rickon as a PoV - at least concerning aSoS, since he is so young. GRRM has stated that he finds it very difficult to write the children's PoVs. Mormont is always a possibility, I guess...
doctor doom User ID: 9649143	Sep 27th 11:31 AM Everyone knows that Theon's POV is gone, and Samwell's is added. I heard that everyone else from CLASH OF KINGS is keeping their POV, plus another new one is added. Look at it from this way, every portion of the world has a POV. Samwell will be the new POV beyond the wall, so the only places without POVs are the North area (since Theon is gone, and Bran's POV is staying) and the deep south, around the Dorne area. I think that the new POV will either be Roose Bolton or his bastard Reek. Both are excellent choices for the new POV since both are backstabbing traitors. It is soooooo obvious that Roose knew and always knew about Reek's activities. How? He planned them! So, anyone who is mounting such a horrific rebellion against Robb needs to be heard.
Jeff User ID: 0227464	Sep 27th 11:38 AM Herr Doctor, I don't disagree that the Bastard's actions may be in accordance with Roose Bolton's general goals. But I think the situation in the North has been so fluid that Bolton could not possibly have predicted the course of events, so he could not have planned all of the Bastard's actions. So at least some of it -- such as the attack on Winterfell, almost had to be done by the Bastard on his own initiative.
doctor doom User ID: 9649143	Sep 27th 12:18 PM Hey Jeff, I don't know about that. Roose knew that Winterfell was virtually unguarded and he knew that if his bastard came bearing the flag of friendship, easy access would be forthcoming. He couldn't have known beforehand about Theon's taking over of Winterfell, that was an added bobus. But it is very possible that he planned to destroy Winterfell from the time he landed at Harrenthal.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 27th 12:23 PM Roose could not have known that the Ironmen would have drawn most of the remaining power away from Winterfell. It is a bit dubious if Ramsay could have taken it, had not the events played Ser Rodrik, Theon and the rest right into his hands.
doctor doom User ID: 9649143	Sep 27th 12:37 PM You're probably right about that. But I still think that Roose was planning to attack Winterfell beforehand, regardless of the remaining forces there. But, You're correct in that he probably didn't know about the Ironmen attacks.
doctor doom User ID: 9649143	Sep 27th 12:55 PM Here's a theory I want to test out. At the end of CLASH OF KINGS, Maester Luwin is dying and he calls the wildling woman Osha (I think her name is, I don't have my book here) and tells her something. We never hear what he tells her. So this is my theory, or two. Since the rebirth of the dragons, there have been some remarks made about how some magic is starting to work again. Well, Luwin had a Maester's chain link devoted to magic and Osha, from beyond the wall still believes in magic. So, Luwin calls her over to help him or witness him preform a spell that heals him. Then he directs her to take Rickon to Old Town to meet up with him, in order to teach Rickon the ways of the Maester's magic. Or maybe he really did die, but asked Osha to take Rickon to Old Town for some other reason. You see, before this happened, Bran and everyone had decided to travel north. But then Osha comes back from taking to Luwin and says that she is taking Rickon south, so that the two wouldn't be together and make easy targets for death. I believe that she just said that to split the brothers up and take Rickon south. It also makes some senese, since almost all of Westros has been explored by the characters in some form or another, except for Old Town, where the Maesters are. Tell me how horribly wrong you think I am.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 27th 12:57 PM I believe that Roose initially (whatever his intentions now are) had only limited ambitions in the North. I'm guessing that Bolton might have set his bastard son on the Hornwoods. After all, it is a little peculiar that lord Hornwood was the only major lord that died when Bolton clashed with Tywin at the Green Fork. Then, when Ramsay had established the sufficient link between house Bolton and house Hornwood by marrying the widow, Roose can simply waste Ramsay (for whatever crimes), and put forth a non-negligible claim for the Hornwood lands, which would increase his power much. It would still depend on Robb OK'ing it, but I think it would not be easy for Robb to bypass him without proper witnesses that can state that the marriage was done forcibly, and thus render the marriage null and void. (of course, there's still Daryn Hornwood to account for, which is the dirty fly in my little Bolton soup)
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 27th 1:02 PM About maester Luwin - I think he simply wanted to save the children the sight of seeing Osha relieving him of his pain. IIRC, he muttered something about a 'last service' he wanted from her, and Osha consequently sent the kids away.
Jeff User ID: 0227464	Sep 27th 1:39 PM Kay-Arne, how would that have given Roose Bolton a "non-negligible claim"? I mean, the only claim would be through Ramsey's marriage to Lady Hornwood. Once Ramsey is "offed", there is no claim. I think you're probably right about Luwin. the one thing that gives me pause is Doom's point about the link. Luwin makes a point very early on about how few maesters wear the mage's link. And we do know that magic is reviving in Westeros. It seems rather pointless to give Luwin this ability and then kill him off. On the other hand, having him survive would seem to violate GRRM's desire to leave dead people dead. Perhaps he had some icon or item of power that he wanted held for Bran.
Ran User ID: 0283314	Sep 27th 2:01 PM Mrm. Luwin was pretty adamant that maesters who study 'the higher mysteries' try their hand at it, eventually .... and find out that it never works. I don't think Luwin had anything of peculiar magic, nor do I think he had any sort of item of magical power. I do believe he bought it.