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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Robert - A murderer?

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Telisiane
User ID: 2233684 Sep 17th 4:42 PM
I've been thinking lately that Robert killed Jon Arryn and attempted to kill Bran. First, my theory on Jon Arryn's death:

Imagine you are Robert. You are a king and a drunkard, unhappy with your life. The pinnacle of your strength, glory, beauty, (and face it) usefulness is long past. You hate ruling. You and your kingdom are badly in debt, mostly to the family of your wife, who loves you not. Okay, she hates you. You are admittedly not the sharpest tool in the shed, but you never imagined that being king would be so awful.

Your best friend comes to you and tells you that your wife has been cuckolding you all these years. Not one of the children you thought was yours IS yours. And worst of all, the father of her children is her BROTHER.

You have two options:

1) You believe your friend. You announce to all that your Queen has been cuckolding you under your own roof with her own brother, and not one child is yours. You execute your queen and her brother for treason. You are a laughingstock, your money (and a big part of the support for you) dries up because your powerful father-in-law is not exactly happy that two of his children have been killed.

2) You believe that your friend is lying. How such a tale be true? Ridiculous! That would make you a fool, and you are no fool, nor a laughingstock either.

So you go with Option 2, because, frankly, you are long past caring, and your life is easier if his tale is not true. But perhaps your friend is certain that he is correct. He does not listen to you and you cannot believe him. He says that his honor and yours as king demand that something be done about this! He will not let this go. He does not agree to keep quiet. Then what do you do? You know that even if he is later proven wrong, by raising the question to the world about the legitimacy of your children, he will make you a laughingstock. What do you do? Hrm....Well, you could poison him quietly and make it look like an illness and your troubles will disappear......

**prepares herself for mocking laughter.**

Telisiane
User ID: 2233684 Sep 17th 4:44 PM
Oops..I apologize. This really belongs in the AGOT section. Sorry!

=0/

Ran
User ID: 0283314 Sep 17th 5:20 PM
Hrm ... Ned sure seemed damned sure that Robert would go into a rage that would leave Cersei and her children dead when he learned the truth -- and Ned seemed sure that, with enough evidence, Robert would accept it from him.

Further, Robert admits certain errors and the like on his deathbed, and Jon Arryn's death isn't one of them. This is the man he loved like a father, who he chose to be his Hand, who fought the good fight besides him, etc. I can't see Robert killing Jon, and certainly not by poison.

No laughter from me, Telisaine, because it's inspired and from left-field ... but I think I'd have to give this a very small probability.

I'll say in advance I don't buy Robert trying to kill Bran, but I'm willing to admit that it can't be entirely ruled out as a possibility. :)

Watcher
User ID: 7761613 Sep 17th 6:05 PM
Option 3) You do believe your consoler and friend but it is one more humiliation then you can stand so you kill him in hopes of no one else knowing.

You have such interesting theories, Telisiane , I almost hate disagreeing with them:)
The problem I see with Robert killing Jon is that I don't think he would use poison. Even if he killed Jon for bringing the bad news, I also think he would try to kill Cersei and Jamie and not think about the consquences. I think Joff got a lot of his "I'm king and I can do what I want" attitude from Robert.

Telisiane
User ID: 2233684 Sep 17th 6:32 PM
Part II: Robert tries to kill Bran....

To buy this theory, you have to buy the "Robert kills Jon Arryn" theory. First, two points:

1) In his interview with Catelyn, Jaime says that the dagger was Robert's. He also says that he did not hire anyone to kill Bran (he does all of his own killing) and is fairly sure that it was not Cersei. A lie? Perhaps. But why would he lie? He just told Catelyn directly that he pushed Bran off the roof. He told Catelyn that his sister is the only woman he has ever had. Why lie about this fairly minor point? To incriminate a man who is already dead?

2) There was a clue in the "Major ASOS Information" message that someone might come forward with the information on who killed Bran. This person was in KL and could have had knowledge of Robert and whether or not he truly owned the dagger. I think we all agreed not to discuss this info, so I will go no further with this.

So Robert has killed Jon Arryn. He knows of Jon's suspicions regarding Jaime and Cersei and probably realizes that they are true, although he is DEEP in denial. He goes away to hunt and returns to find that Eddard's son has fallen from a tower. The boy is known to be a good climber who has never fallen before. The boy is broken, and it is doubted that he will live. He thinks about who was at Winterfell when the boy fell. Perhaps he catches a look between Cersei and Jaime, similar to the look that Tyrion witnessed, and begins to wonder if the boy saw something he was not supposed to. (This is the weakest part of the argument in my opinion, because Robert was NOT the sharpest tool in the shed.) Regardless, he decides to have Bran killed, just in case. Because if the boy lived to tell his father something damaging, Robert realizes that Eddard, his newly appointed Hand with the stubborn Stark honor, would force him to act. And he thinks to himself, the boy at best will be a cripple, and overall, useless as a man. He will grant Bran a swift and merciful death, instead of forcing the child to live as half a man. (This attitude has been exhibited repeatedly by the Northmen in Bran's hearing.) He is actually doing Eddard a favor....

And voila! The evidence of my insanity is complete!

Telisiane
User ID: 2233684 Sep 17th 6:38 PM
Ran - The "Robert on his death bed" point is a good one. But I have to say that Ned Stark had a pretty bad track record judging people and what they would do. Ned knew Robert pretty well once, true, but Ned was also startled at the changes he saw in Robert.

Watcher - Yah...poison is not a man's weapon. Especially a man like Robert. Another big hole in my already swiss-cheese-like theory.

Ami
User ID: 8548253 Sep 17th 7:45 PM
Wow, Telisiane, that's a cool theory. And it's not so hole-y, if you're trying to keep a secret quiet you don't go storming into your father figure's room and slam an axe in his chest, you use a woman's weapon and try to make it look like you "beloved" wife did it. And you wouldn't necessarily admit it to your best friend on your death bed who, also, shared this father figure that you killed, especially since you have no clue whatsoever that your best friend knows.

It's nice to have a fresh, new idea... Thanx, Telisiane ;)

Rebecca
User ID: 0303694 Sep 18th 9:50 AM
Telisiane--I've been arguing for months and months and months that Robert tried to have Bran killed. But I think it was supposed to be a mercy killing and not as the consequence of anyone's ambition, etc. Too bad the original "Bran's asssasination" is gone. Oh well, a truncaded version of my argument can be found on the first "Question of the week" thread on the ASOS board. (I'm being lazy and don't feel like going into it now)

And although I don't agree with Ran's theory about who tried to have Bran killed, I do agree with him here about Jon Arryn. I don't think Robert had anything to do with that for the same reasons Ran mentions.

labor
User ID: 8479113 Sep 18th 11:22 AM

I am with you on this Rebecca - IMHO it was Robert who hired that goofy murderer and armed him with his recently won dagger. And it definitely was an attempted mercy killing.

As for Jon Arryn - IMHO it was Varys. I have explained my position often enough, but to reiterate briefly: Jon borrowed Malloreon's book in the evening and on the _next_ morning he was already poisoned. The killer had to be aware of all of Jon's actions and be able to engineer a murder very quickly. On the other hand, of all potential murderers, Varys is the only one who wouldn't destroy the damning book on the spot. In fact, the Lannisters and Pycelle seem totally oblivious of the book's significance! This, IMHO; clears them from suspicion.

Ser Gary
User ID: 9279843 Sep 18th 3:14 PM
I have always believed it was Littlefinger in all instances. Littlefinger's master plan to take over the world -- step by step by step.

Robert strikes me as the type who handles things himself, and in a very straightforward manner. If he wanted to kill Jon Arryn, he'd take him on man-to-man with conventional weapons. He certainly would not hire an assassin to attack Bran -- unless it was a mercy killing. But I don't even ascribe to that. Those are my ideas on this subject.

Telisiane Sep 18th 9:32 PM
Rebecca - I've just learned something: no matter what great or wacky and original idea you THINK you have come up with regarding ISoIaF, it is certain that someone on this board has already come up with, posted, argued about, and validated or dismissed it! And they did it months ago! ;0)

I will definitely look for your previous post.

Oenone
User ID: 0645514 Sep 19th 5:59 AM
Robert just doesn't seem the type you know? I mean he was completely dominated by Cersei throughout his marriage. If he doesn't have the balls to stand up to her then how is he going to do these other things?

Rebecca
User ID: 0303694 Sep 19th 8:43 AM
Telisiane, That's the truth! (I think we've all been there.) Just keep hanging around, get SoS as soon as it comes out in the summer (I hope, I hope!), and then you'll be on equal ground with everyone else. :)

Ami
User ID: 1062774 Sep 19th 8:35 PM
Well, Telisiane, it was new to me. Sorry, Rebecca, I've never been able to get thru all the threads... ;)

Ser Gary, could you point me to a thread or briefly restate what you think Littlefingers motives were behind an attack on Bran? Before this thread I had just figured it was him but could not figure out how it would benefit him.
The Robert thing makes a lot of sense to me.

agarrett
User ID: 9377263 Sep 19th 10:58 PM
Sorry, but I don't buy Robert as the murderer. Mostly for reasons that others have mentioned above - he's a very direct person, he didn't confess it on his deathbed, etc. No, if he'd discovered that Cersei was cuckolding him, he might have killed Jon Arryn on the spot, in his rage, but it's a sure bet that Cersei, Jaime, and the three kids would have followed very shortly. Consequences be damned...

For Jon Arryn, I think it was Lysa Arryn. Jon was going to send Robert to Dragonstone for fostering (possibly because he expected Stannis to be the next king, and was hoping to wed Robert to Selyse?) Lysa would not bear this, and so she poisoned her husband. Cersei saw the potential in this, and either deliberately or incidentally signalled to Grand Maester Pycelle that he should see the disease run its course. So Pycelle took over Arryn's care, and saw he died. I'm not sure whether or not Cersei tried to grab Robert and foster him to Casterly Rock, or whether Lysa simply invented that, but either way, she used it to set Ned against the Queen, and so create enough confusion to cover her own tracks.

The biggest point against this is the death of Jon's squire - the one who was elevated to knighthood, and then died in the Hand's Tourney. It was strongly implied that he received his knighthood in return for poisoning Jon, and was then killed for the same reason. Lysa was not in a position to do either (although, since the Mountain killed him, Robert wasn't in a much better position). It could, I suppose, be a coincidence.

Lysa was not in a position to try to murder Bran. I don't know who did that, but I don't see any reason it had to be realted to jon arryn's murder.

Snake
User ID: 0018434 Sep 20th 9:07 AM
I thought it was pretty clear that it was Pycelle that murdered Jon Arryn. He admitted it to Tyrion. As for Bran, I would again have to say Cersei. Jaime thinks that Cersei would keep nothing from him. In fact she already has and will continue to do so. Her denial to Tyrion could be a cover-up because she didn't want to admit that she was with Jaime either. To admit to Tyrion that she had tried to have Bran murdered would have been giving ammo to one that she percieves as an enemy.

The rest of the prospects, Robert, Littlefinger, Lysa Arryn, Varys, Renly, Stannis, whoever, seem to be a little far fetched to me.

Jeff
User ID: 0227464 Sep 20th 9:18 AM
Why would Jaime lie about Cersei's involvement in Bran's death?

1) She did it and just didn't let Jaime know. So he's ignorant, not lying.

2) Jaime lies to protect Cersei. He's a captive of the Tullys and really has no idea how the war is going. It seems likely to him that the Lannisters are losing given that a large part of their army has been wiped out by Robb. If the Lannisters lose, then the fate of the various Lannisters will be in the hands of the Starks, Tullys, and Baratheons.

Jaime loves his sister, and knows that revealing her involvement in the attempted murder of Bran likely would result in her death as well. So, he lies to Catelyn and says his sister had nothing to do with it. Its a very believable lie for the precise reasons you've given, Telisiane.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 20th 9:52 AM
Snake;

AFAICT, Pycelle didn't admit that he was behind the poisoning itself, only that he acted to send away maester Colemon, in order to assure Arryn's death.

About the 'ammo' Cersei wouldn't want to give Tyrion; well, that's right but for one thing - since Tyrion is a Lannister himself, he could not use that particular information to his own end, without it backfiring on him.

And after all, Cersei knew that Tyrion already knew about her and Jaime, so it's hardly any reason for her to hide anything.

Claidhaim
User ID: 9544623 Sep 20th 11:09 AM
Good point there Kay-Arne, about the information backfiring on Tyrion. Yet, with things the way they are now, after the battle of King's Landing, it would seem that the 'ammo' backfire wouldn't be as harsh as it first appeared.

I don't think Jaime knew if Cercie had anything to do with the attempt on Bran's life. Cercie sure is slippery (no pun intended) when it comes to machiavellian plots. Just when you think she's involved in one, she's not, but is she?

The problem here is that there are several plots and plotters going round and round all the time. Varys, Littlefinger, Tywin?, Cercie, and even Tyrion. Is there someone pulling all the strings? I seriously doubt it. But events can occur that will benefit one more than others giving the appearance of superiority, but that is just a veil. The real truth is that no one plot is coming to fruition any time soon. Plots will be heaped upon plots until someone is left standing, and that will be purely dictated by fate and luck, not skill.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Sep 20th 12:03 PM
Ami, from way back when....Littlefinger's motives with regard to an attack on Bran could have been personal in the sense that he was still reeling from Catelyn's rebuff many years before. More likely, though, it was political. What he wanted to do was to initiate hostilities between the Starks and the Lannisters (which did eventually come about). After the Starks and Lannisters finish beating up on each other, he would come in and clean up with his new-found allies in The Vale and Highgarden and perhaps even Dorne.

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Telisiane User ID: 2233684	Sep 17th 4:42 PM I've been thinking lately that Robert killed Jon Arryn and attempted to kill Bran. First, my theory on Jon Arryn's death: Imagine you are Robert. You are a king and a drunkard, unhappy with your life. The pinnacle of your strength, glory, beauty, (and face it) usefulness is long past. You hate ruling. You and your kingdom are badly in debt, mostly to the family of your wife, who loves you not. Okay, she hates you. You are admittedly not the sharpest tool in the shed, but you never imagined that being king would be so awful. Your best friend comes to you and tells you that your wife has been cuckolding you all these years. Not one of the children you thought was yours IS yours. And worst of all, the father of her children is her BROTHER. You have two options: 1) You believe your friend. You announce to all that your Queen has been cuckolding you under your own roof with her own brother, and not one child is yours. You execute your queen and her brother for treason. You are a laughingstock, your money (and a big part of the support for you) dries up because your powerful father-in-law is not exactly happy that two of his children have been killed. 2) You believe that your friend is lying. How such a tale be true? Ridiculous! That would make you a fool, and you are no fool, nor a laughingstock either. So you go with Option 2, because, frankly, you are long past caring, and your life is easier if his tale is not true. But perhaps your friend is certain that he is correct. He does not listen to you and you cannot believe him. He says that his honor and yours as king demand that something be done about this! He will not let this go. He does not agree to keep quiet. Then what do you do? You know that even if he is later proven wrong, by raising the question to the world about the legitimacy of your children, he will make you a laughingstock. What do you do? Hrm....Well, you could poison him quietly and make it look like an illness and your troubles will disappear...... prepares herself for mocking laughter.
Telisiane User ID: 2233684	Sep 17th 4:44 PM Oops..I apologize. This really belongs in the AGOT section. Sorry! =0/
Ran User ID: 0283314	Sep 17th 5:20 PM Hrm ... Ned sure seemed damned sure that Robert would go into a rage that would leave Cersei and her children dead when he learned the truth -- and Ned seemed sure that, with enough evidence, Robert would accept it from him. Further, Robert admits certain errors and the like on his deathbed, and Jon Arryn's death isn't one of them. This is the man he loved like a father, who he chose to be his Hand, who fought the good fight besides him, etc. I can't see Robert killing Jon, and certainly not by poison. No laughter from me, Telisaine, because it's inspired and from left-field ... but I think I'd have to give this a very small probability. I'll say in advance I don't buy Robert trying to kill Bran, but I'm willing to admit that it can't be entirely ruled out as a possibility. :)
Watcher User ID: 7761613	Sep 17th 6:05 PM Option 3) You do believe your consoler and friend but it is one more humiliation then you can stand so you kill him in hopes of no one else knowing. You have such interesting theories, Telisiane , I almost hate disagreeing with them:) The problem I see with Robert killing Jon is that I don't think he would use poison. Even if he killed Jon for bringing the bad news, I also think he would try to kill Cersei and Jamie and not think about the consquences. I think Joff got a lot of his "I'm king and I can do what I want" attitude from Robert.
Telisiane User ID: 2233684	Sep 17th 6:32 PM Part II: Robert tries to kill Bran.... To buy this theory, you have to buy the "Robert kills Jon Arryn" theory. First, two points: 1) In his interview with Catelyn, Jaime says that the dagger was Robert's. He also says that he did not hire anyone to kill Bran (he does all of his own killing) and is fairly sure that it was not Cersei. A lie? Perhaps. But why would he lie? He just told Catelyn directly that he pushed Bran off the roof. He told Catelyn that his sister is the only woman he has ever had. Why lie about this fairly minor point? To incriminate a man who is already dead? 2) There was a clue in the "Major ASOS Information" message that someone might come forward with the information on who killed Bran. This person was in KL and could have had knowledge of Robert and whether or not he truly owned the dagger. I think we all agreed not to discuss this info, so I will go no further with this. So Robert has killed Jon Arryn. He knows of Jon's suspicions regarding Jaime and Cersei and probably realizes that they are true, although he is DEEP in denial. He goes away to hunt and returns to find that Eddard's son has fallen from a tower. The boy is known to be a good climber who has never fallen before. The boy is broken, and it is doubted that he will live. He thinks about who was at Winterfell when the boy fell. Perhaps he catches a look between Cersei and Jaime, similar to the look that Tyrion witnessed, and begins to wonder if the boy saw something he was not supposed to. (This is the weakest part of the argument in my opinion, because Robert was NOT the sharpest tool in the shed.) Regardless, he decides to have Bran killed, just in case. Because if the boy lived to tell his father something damaging, Robert realizes that Eddard, his newly appointed Hand with the stubborn Stark honor, would force him to act. And he thinks to himself, the boy at best will be a cripple, and overall, useless as a man. He will grant Bran a swift and merciful death, instead of forcing the child to live as half a man. (This attitude has been exhibited repeatedly by the Northmen in Bran's hearing.) He is actually doing Eddard a favor.... And voila! The evidence of my insanity is complete!
Telisiane User ID: 2233684	Sep 17th 6:38 PM Ran - The "Robert on his death bed" point is a good one. But I have to say that Ned Stark had a pretty bad track record judging people and what they would do. Ned knew Robert pretty well once, true, but Ned was also startled at the changes he saw in Robert. Watcher - Yah...poison is not a man's weapon. Especially a man like Robert. Another big hole in my already swiss-cheese-like theory.
Ami User ID: 8548253	Sep 17th 7:45 PM Wow, Telisiane, that's a cool theory. And it's not so hole-y, if you're trying to keep a secret quiet you don't go storming into your father figure's room and slam an axe in his chest, you use a woman's weapon and try to make it look like you "beloved" wife did it. And you wouldn't necessarily admit it to your best friend on your death bed who, also, shared this father figure that you killed, especially since you have no clue whatsoever that your best friend knows. It's nice to have a fresh, new idea... Thanx, Telisiane ;)
Rebecca User ID: 0303694	Sep 18th 9:50 AM Telisiane--I've been arguing for months and months and months that Robert tried to have Bran killed. But I think it was supposed to be a mercy killing and not as the consequence of anyone's ambition, etc. Too bad the original "Bran's asssasination" is gone. Oh well, a truncaded version of my argument can be found on the first "Question of the week" thread on the ASOS board. (I'm being lazy and don't feel like going into it now) And although I don't agree with Ran's theory about who tried to have Bran killed, I do agree with him here about Jon Arryn. I don't think Robert had anything to do with that for the same reasons Ran mentions.
labor User ID: 8479113	Sep 18th 11:22 AM I am with you on this Rebecca - IMHO it was Robert who hired that goofy murderer and armed him with his recently won dagger. And it definitely was an attempted mercy killing. As for Jon Arryn - IMHO it was Varys. I have explained my position often enough, but to reiterate briefly: Jon borrowed Malloreon's book in the evening and on the _next_ morning he was already poisoned. The killer had to be aware of all of Jon's actions and be able to engineer a murder very quickly. On the other hand, of all potential murderers, Varys is the only one who wouldn't destroy the damning book on the spot. In fact, the Lannisters and Pycelle seem totally oblivious of the book's significance! This, IMHO; clears them from suspicion.
Ser Gary User ID: 9279843	Sep 18th 3:14 PM I have always believed it was Littlefinger in all instances. Littlefinger's master plan to take over the world -- step by step by step. Robert strikes me as the type who handles things himself, and in a very straightforward manner. If he wanted to kill Jon Arryn, he'd take him on man-to-man with conventional weapons. He certainly would not hire an assassin to attack Bran -- unless it was a mercy killing. But I don't even ascribe to that. Those are my ideas on this subject.
Telisiane	Sep 18th 9:32 PM Rebecca - I've just learned something: no matter what great or wacky and original idea you THINK you have come up with regarding ISoIaF, it is certain that someone on this board has already come up with, posted, argued about, and validated or dismissed it! And they did it months ago! ;0) I will definitely look for your previous post.
Oenone User ID: 0645514	Sep 19th 5:59 AM Robert just doesn't seem the type you know? I mean he was completely dominated by Cersei throughout his marriage. If he doesn't have the balls to stand up to her then how is he going to do these other things?
Rebecca User ID: 0303694	Sep 19th 8:43 AM Telisiane, That's the truth! (I think we've all been there.) Just keep hanging around, get SoS as soon as it comes out in the summer (I hope, I hope!), and then you'll be on equal ground with everyone else. :)
Ami User ID: 1062774	Sep 19th 8:35 PM Well, Telisiane, it was new to me. Sorry, Rebecca, I've never been able to get thru all the threads... ;) Ser Gary, could you point me to a thread or briefly restate what you think Littlefingers motives were behind an attack on Bran? Before this thread I had just figured it was him but could not figure out how it would benefit him. The Robert thing makes a lot of sense to me.
agarrett User ID: 9377263	Sep 19th 10:58 PM Sorry, but I don't buy Robert as the murderer. Mostly for reasons that others have mentioned above - he's a very direct person, he didn't confess it on his deathbed, etc. No, if he'd discovered that Cersei was cuckolding him, he might have killed Jon Arryn on the spot, in his rage, but it's a sure bet that Cersei, Jaime, and the three kids would have followed very shortly. Consequences be damned... For Jon Arryn, I think it was Lysa Arryn. Jon was going to send Robert to Dragonstone for fostering (possibly because he expected Stannis to be the next king, and was hoping to wed Robert to Selyse?) Lysa would not bear this, and so she poisoned her husband. Cersei saw the potential in this, and either deliberately or incidentally signalled to Grand Maester Pycelle that he should see the disease run its course. So Pycelle took over Arryn's care, and saw he died. I'm not sure whether or not Cersei tried to grab Robert and foster him to Casterly Rock, or whether Lysa simply invented that, but either way, she used it to set Ned against the Queen, and so create enough confusion to cover her own tracks. The biggest point against this is the death of Jon's squire - the one who was elevated to knighthood, and then died in the Hand's Tourney. It was strongly implied that he received his knighthood in return for poisoning Jon, and was then killed for the same reason. Lysa was not in a position to do either (although, since the Mountain killed him, Robert wasn't in a much better position). It could, I suppose, be a coincidence. Lysa was not in a position to try to murder Bran. I don't know who did that, but I don't see any reason it had to be realted to jon arryn's murder.
Snake User ID: 0018434	Sep 20th 9:07 AM I thought it was pretty clear that it was Pycelle that murdered Jon Arryn. He admitted it to Tyrion. As for Bran, I would again have to say Cersei. Jaime thinks that Cersei would keep nothing from him. In fact she already has and will continue to do so. Her denial to Tyrion could be a cover-up because she didn't want to admit that she was with Jaime either. To admit to Tyrion that she had tried to have Bran murdered would have been giving ammo to one that she percieves as an enemy. The rest of the prospects, Robert, Littlefinger, Lysa Arryn, Varys, Renly, Stannis, whoever, seem to be a little far fetched to me.
Jeff User ID: 0227464	Sep 20th 9:18 AM Why would Jaime lie about Cersei's involvement in Bran's death? 1) She did it and just didn't let Jaime know. So he's ignorant, not lying. 2) Jaime lies to protect Cersei. He's a captive of the Tullys and really has no idea how the war is going. It seems likely to him that the Lannisters are losing given that a large part of their army has been wiped out by Robb. If the Lannisters lose, then the fate of the various Lannisters will be in the hands of the Starks, Tullys, and Baratheons. Jaime loves his sister, and knows that revealing her involvement in the attempted murder of Bran likely would result in her death as well. So, he lies to Catelyn and says his sister had nothing to do with it. Its a very believable lie for the precise reasons you've given, Telisiane.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 20th 9:52 AM Snake; AFAICT, Pycelle didn't admit that he was behind the poisoning itself, only that he acted to send away maester Colemon, in order to assure Arryn's death. About the 'ammo' Cersei wouldn't want to give Tyrion; well, that's right but for one thing - since Tyrion is a Lannister himself, he could not use that particular information to his own end, without it backfiring on him. And after all, Cersei knew that Tyrion already knew about her and Jaime, so it's hardly any reason for her to hide anything.
Claidhaim User ID: 9544623	Sep 20th 11:09 AM Good point there Kay-Arne, about the information backfiring on Tyrion. Yet, with things the way they are now, after the battle of King's Landing, it would seem that the 'ammo' backfire wouldn't be as harsh as it first appeared. I don't think Jaime knew if Cercie had anything to do with the attempt on Bran's life. Cercie sure is slippery (no pun intended) when it comes to machiavellian plots. Just when you think she's involved in one, she's not, but is she? The problem here is that there are several plots and plotters going round and round all the time. Varys, Littlefinger, Tywin?, Cercie, and even Tyrion. Is there someone pulling all the strings? I seriously doubt it. But events can occur that will benefit one more than others giving the appearance of superiority, but that is just a veil. The real truth is that no one plot is coming to fruition any time soon. Plots will be heaped upon plots until someone is left standing, and that will be purely dictated by fate and luck, not skill.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Sep 20th 12:03 PM Ami, from way back when....Littlefinger's motives with regard to an attack on Bran could have been personal in the sense that he was still reeling from Catelyn's rebuff many years before. More likely, though, it was political. What he wanted to do was to initiate hostilities between the Starks and the Lannisters (which did eventually come about). After the Starks and Lannisters finish beating up on each other, he would come in and clean up with his new-found allies in The Vale and Highgarden and perhaps even Dorne.