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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Patchface

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Sep 20th 6:30 PM
Does anyone else out there put any significance in Patchface's ramblings. I get the sense that they are more than insane ramblings. Could they be some sort of vision?

Watcher
User ID: 1704034 Sep 20th 10:19 PM
At first I thought he was warning against the Others. But after rereading it I think it is the shadows he refers to is Melisandre. I also think his ramblings started the mood for the rest of the ACOK.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Sep 21st 1:49 PM
In other words, there are unseen dangers all around us?

Min
User ID: 1446254 Sep 24th 7:42 AM
undoubtedly. I, too, believe that Patchface has to tell us something. But what would he refer to? His song about the bottom of the sea would better fit the Drowned God than the Lord of Light, but I have no idea what to make of it.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Sep 24th 10:13 AM
Good point, Min. In many ways, Patchface reminds me of The Fool in The Farseer trilogy. He speaks in riddles, but there is probably much substance behind the supposed idiocy. Is he somewhat off his rocker, or has he entered a higher plane of existence?

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Sep 25th 0:05 AM
I agree. Patches and his song about what happens below the sea has something to do with this. GRRM is not going to leave this plot thread hanging. However, I fear he may leave its resolution until later books.

Min
User ID: 1446254 Sep 25th 12:16 PM
He reminded me of Hobb's fool, too. But I think that Patchface is _really_ disturbed, where the fool in the Farseers only pretended to be.
His mind is trapped in the song, but still, the song is significant.
Hodor's mind is trapped in this very word.

Will they both be freed eventually?

Swithin
User ID: 0443584 Sep 26th 5:22 AM
My belief is that Hodor had a horrifying bus accident as a child. He was running, yes, he was even LATE for the bus he so desperately needed to catch. Running alongside as it started to pull away from the curb, he kept shouting "HOLD THE DOOR!" to no reply from the deaf-mute driver. In a panicked state, he made one last, gut-wrenching (yes, gut-wrenching) leap to board the bus. Only his head managed to clear the boarding step, and to his pained cries of "HOLD THE DOOR!" the hydraulic door mercilessly clamped about his temples and dragged him for half a mile. Ever since this traumatic mishap, he has only been able to verbalize his plea for release "HOLD THE DOOR!"

ps - does Patchface remind anyone else just a little bit of the cemetery ward from Hamlet?

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Sep 26th 11:23 AM
LOL! Not bad, Swithin, not bad at all...

Dirjj
User ID: 0094674 Sep 26th 9:38 PM
Makes sense to me. HO(ld the)-DOOR

ab

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Oct 5th 6:55 PM
Is it possible that his songs have started to come true? After all, the drowned God (Ironmen) have started to expand over the land.

Let's look at Patchface's history. He was a bright promising entertainer. He gets on a ship that is wrecked at sea. Everyone else on board dies. He is horribly changed/handicapped. He sees things that noone else sees.

This seems to have some correlation to Bran. He had a bright future as a lord. He has a horrible accident and is crippled. The sea overtakes him and ones that he loves and kills most. He is starting to develop a vision sense.

Will the Ironmen continue to win? Will Bran survive but be somewhat mad as a result?

Min
User ID: 1446254 Oct 6th 3:25 AM
swithin, very nice. :-)

Kevin, that makes a certain sense. Horrible things certainly change people. Horrible experiences either harden or weaken. They hardened Sandor. They weakened Patchface, but to anextend where he sac see things others cannot. An interesting comparison to Bran.

thorfinn
User ID: 9906923 Jan 31st 10:13 AM
I think there is something from Dany's prophecies that stated something like under the mother of mountains comes those with grey heads from a great lake (or something to that nature). Could it be that they are comming when Dany comes and Patch face is predicting it. Dany will need an army.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jan 31st 11:30 AM
Uhm ...

That's a new one to me, thorfinn. I havent' done an exhaustive look, but can't find that one. Might you be conflating some other book with the GoT statement of the Dothraki belief that the first men sprang from the great lake at the foot of the Mother of Mountains?

Kevin User ID: 1766884	Sep 20th 6:30 PM Does anyone else out there put any significance in Patchface's ramblings. I get the sense that they are more than insane ramblings. Could they be some sort of vision?
Watcher User ID: 1704034	Sep 20th 10:19 PM At first I thought he was warning against the Others. But after rereading it I think it is the shadows he refers to is Melisandre. I also think his ramblings started the mood for the rest of the ACOK.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Sep 21st 1:49 PM In other words, there are unseen dangers all around us?
Min User ID: 1446254	Sep 24th 7:42 AM undoubtedly. I, too, believe that Patchface has to tell us something. But what would he refer to? His song about the bottom of the sea would better fit the Drowned God than the Lord of Light, but I have no idea what to make of it.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Sep 24th 10:13 AM Good point, Min. In many ways, Patchface reminds me of The Fool in The Farseer trilogy. He speaks in riddles, but there is probably much substance behind the supposed idiocy. Is he somewhat off his rocker, or has he entered a higher plane of existence?
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Sep 25th 0:05 AM I agree. Patches and his song about what happens below the sea has something to do with this. GRRM is not going to leave this plot thread hanging. However, I fear he may leave its resolution until later books.
Min User ID: 1446254	Sep 25th 12:16 PM He reminded me of Hobb's fool, too. But I think that Patchface is _really_ disturbed, where the fool in the Farseers only pretended to be. His mind is trapped in the song, but still, the song is significant. Hodor's mind is trapped in this very word. Will they both be freed eventually?
Swithin User ID: 0443584	Sep 26th 5:22 AM My belief is that Hodor had a horrifying bus accident as a child. He was running, yes, he was even LATE for the bus he so desperately needed to catch. Running alongside as it started to pull away from the curb, he kept shouting "HOLD THE DOOR!" to no reply from the deaf-mute driver. In a panicked state, he made one last, gut-wrenching (yes, gut-wrenching) leap to board the bus. Only his head managed to clear the boarding step, and to his pained cries of "HOLD THE DOOR!" the hydraulic door mercilessly clamped about his temples and dragged him for half a mile. Ever since this traumatic mishap, he has only been able to verbalize his plea for release "HOLD THE DOOR!" ps - does Patchface remind anyone else just a little bit of the cemetery ward from Hamlet?
KAH User ID: 9209903	Sep 26th 11:23 AM LOL! Not bad, Swithin, not bad at all...
Dirjj User ID: 0094674	Sep 26th 9:38 PM Makes sense to me. HO(ld the)-DOOR ab
Kevin User ID: 1766884	Oct 5th 6:55 PM Is it possible that his songs have started to come true? After all, the drowned God (Ironmen) have started to expand over the land. Let's look at Patchface's history. He was a bright promising entertainer. He gets on a ship that is wrecked at sea. Everyone else on board dies. He is horribly changed/handicapped. He sees things that noone else sees. This seems to have some correlation to Bran. He had a bright future as a lord. He has a horrible accident and is crippled. The sea overtakes him and ones that he loves and kills most. He is starting to develop a vision sense. Will the Ironmen continue to win? Will Bran survive but be somewhat mad as a result?
Min User ID: 1446254	Oct 6th 3:25 AM swithin, very nice. :-) Kevin, that makes a certain sense. Horrible things certainly change people. Horrible experiences either harden or weaken. They hardened Sandor. They weakened Patchface, but to anextend where he sac see things others cannot. An interesting comparison to Bran.
thorfinn User ID: 9906923	Jan 31st 10:13 AM I think there is something from Dany's prophecies that stated something like under the mother of mountains comes those with grey heads from a great lake (or something to that nature). Could it be that they are comming when Dany comes and Patch face is predicting it. Dany will need an army.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jan 31st 11:30 AM Uhm ... That's a new one to me, thorfinn. I havent' done an exhaustive look, but can't find that one. Might you be conflating some other book with the GoT statement of the Dothraki belief that the first men sprang from the great lake at the foot of the Mother of Mountains?