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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Catelyn

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Robin Chapman
User ID: 8437443 May 4th 1:43 PM
Does anybody hate that bitch Catelyn as much as I do? She thinks she so much better than everybody else. She thinks she the wisest thing on the planet and the mother of all answers. She gives herself too much credit, and she must make herself feel like she has something to do with everything that's happening. She boasts about how hard being a mother is and how she's always done her duty. Well, bits, you're not the only one with a duty, and to do that is something that is expected. Robb has become a man in battle and no longer needs her teats. Nor does he need her worrying ass around and her non-battle-proven advice. She keeps these little remarks in the back of her mind like she's the key item in the war when she has slung no steel. That's just my opinion and it's absolutely right (for all of you who "think" differently.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 4th 1:52 PM
Gee, Robin, why don't you tell us how you _really_ feel?

sparhawk
User ID: 0436494 May 4th 2:23 PM
she does whine and whinge an awful lot.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 May 4th 2:43 PM
I like Catelyn. She made a heartless comment to Jon while horribly upset over Bran's fall. Under the circumstances, no big deal. She was right about not trusting Theon -- Robb ignored her. She also gave him some fairly sound advice in helping him select who to command the infantry force. Bolton turned out to be a traitor, but her reasoning and analysis were sharp. I also think she handled herself well during her diplomatic embassy south. Renly and Stannis wouldn't listen, but that wasn't her fault.

Catelyn has been defended in a lot of other places on the board, so I won't repeat everything I've said before. But I will say that I think those who criticize her might be overlooking the emotional strain she's been under. Son crippled, husband murdered, daughters kidnapped, two sons reported dead. I think that might justify a bit of whining and whinging. It's easy for us to say "get over it", but in the RW -- which Mr. Martin does a great job of emulating -- people don't just "get over" those type of repeated emotional blows.

sparhawk
User ID: 0436494 May 4th 2:55 PM
Jeff;
how do we know bolton is definitely a traitor?

Rughead
User ID: 9627953 May 4th 3:04 PM
Robin, maybe some maternal issues unresolved in your psyche?

Markus
User ID: 3919194 May 4th 3:05 PM
I completely agree with Jeff.

Furthermore, I think disliking Catelyn is often a rather emotional reaction caused by her dealings with the two most popular characters, Jon and Tyrion. Only if you reflect upon these and other actions, Catelyn becomes a realistic, well meaning but flawed protagonist.

WeissVan
User ID: 0554384 May 4th 4:14 PM
I'm with Jeff too -- Catelyn rocks!!

She's earnest, maternal, and remarkably strong considering she believes her youngest two sons to be dead.

[Cate Blanchett plays her in my movie version; Blanchett can radiate grace under pressure in her roles, and who ever plays Catelyn would need loads of that. Plus, she matches GRRM's description well {above and beyond the call of duty, one might say *shiver*)]

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 May 4th 4:22 PM
Sparhawk, we don't. I think he is, but I could be wrong. If I am wrong, though, that makes Catelyn's analysis all the sharper.

I'll agree completely with Markus, particularly since he agreed so completely with me :-). Robin, you really should get Min to jump in on this one. She's been blasting away at Catelyn for at least a year.

Oh, about Robb being a "man" in battle. I suppose he is, but to say he really doesn't need his mother isn't accurate. Actually, that's one reason I like him so much. Some don't like his character very much because they see him as some kind of a genius prodigy, acting well beyond his years. Unrealistic, and a cliche. But after the Whispering Wood and the Battle of the Camps, Robb almost broke down telling his mother how scared he was when Jaime Lannister almost got to him. He's a 15 year old very young man, trying his best to fill his father's very large boots, and could only go to his mom to express his fear. He's doing remarkably well, but he is terrified and I think a bit out of his depth still. That makes him a much more realistic and admirable character to me.

Hot Pie
User ID: 2700404 May 4th 8:40 PM
No No Robin had it right she is a whiney weak person. She is much like Ned in the fact that she is behind the times. She is the only person(of the main characters) who wants peace when it is obvious that it aint gonna happen without violence. I believe the scene with Robb's lords show exactly what i mean. No it is good to want peace but the fact that she expresses it vocally is a bad call. Because the lannasters are like animals because they will not stop until they have gotten there prey. and animals can smell fear............

Wow i would be doing that agian.....HOT PIE

Hot Pie
User ID: 2700404 May 4th 8:41 PM
P.S.

boo to you Ran for getting rid of the other board i mean we all need some place where we can get togather and express are hate for a person or thing.

disgruntled......HOT PIE ;)

Brady
User ID: 0721754 May 5th 4:08 AM
Hot Pie;
I do not think Catelyn is behind the times in wanting peace, instead she is being a realist. She does not think that they can win, and is not blinded by a need for vengeance or honor

Catelyn is annoying, but I dont hate her. I guess eveyone has a character they hate (I loathe the Hound and Stannis myself)

sparhawk
User ID: 0436494 May 5th 5:47 AM
nah, the hound is a class character. i partcularly liked the way he disposed of the butcher's boy, micah.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 May 5th 7:45 AM
Hot Pie, I don't recall any Lannisters being present when Catelyn made her plea for peace to Robb and his bannermen, so I don't see how they could have picked up the "scent of fear".

Robin Chapman
User ID: 8437443 May 5th 8:52 AM
First of all, I'd like to say that ol' Martin is a genius. He's created a world that I can easily get emotionally involved in, making the story that much greater. I would recommend you anylists do the same. You're not going to hear the words "antagonist", "protagonist", or "character" from me. This ain't no English class. What you'll hear is "Bitch" and "Mutherfucker" because that's the way I see people I don't like in the "real world." Speaking of "mutherfuckers" how about that Ned Stark. Here we have a man who lives his entire life with his nose in the air, always doing the honorable thing...oh, except for that one incident when he fucked Jon's mother...oh yeah, and right before he lost his head when he sold himself out. On second thought, he's one of the few who have earn both titles of bitch and mutherfucker. What a weak asshole...talking about "if you're going to sentence a man to death, you should do the killing," or whatever. How about, if you're going to marry a girl, don't fuck anybody else. The lesson learned here is: Being honorable is something that you can't half-ass on. There's no middle of the road. When the shit hits the fan and you're faced with a choice to hold on to your honor or suffer the consequences, stand true to your honor or you will have wasted your life calling yourself an honorable man. Again, that's just my opinion and it's absolutely right.

In my next post, I'll discuss someone who's not a waste of human flesh. Here's a hint: She's not very strong, niether is she smart, but she's resourseful and, like the song says, she "uses what she got, to get what she wants." Too bad the price of pussy is not as high as she would like it to be. "Givin' up the nappy dugout" is something I can respect in a woman, me being a man of action myself. Running off at the mouth like you're saying something useful (like Catelyn) is something I can't.

sparhawk
User ID: 0436494 May 5th 8:57 AM
you idiot, chapman.
ned didn't 'fuck jon's mother' as you, being the baad ass muthafucka, would say. rather jon is his nephew. if you read any other posts you'd know that.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 May 5th 9:07 AM
Sparhawk, I request that you take back your last comment as an insult to idiots everywhere. I've known many idiots in my day, and most of them would be highly offended to be compared to Chapman.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 5th 9:14 AM
Seems like Troll season finally kicked in here too.

sparhawk
User ID: 0436494 May 5th 9:17 AM
as the risk of sounding ignorant, what's 'troll season'?

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 5th 9:33 AM
That is the season for trolls. :P

Trolls can be two things. Intelligent or stupid.

The intelligent sort is rather subtle and elaborate, and can be quite funny.
Cfr Thor's 'The Rage of Lions' troll at rasfwr-j.

The stupid sort is about as funny as watching paint dry.

Basically, it's just mouthing of a series of vulgarities at some random target, in order to get people riled up, and start a flame fest.
These are just here for the verbal form of masturbation that is typical for so many querulants.

These are best ignored.
Trying to set them straight is as productive as trying to shit gold...maybe it's possible, but I ain't holding my breath... :P

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Robin Chapman User ID: 8437443	May 4th 1:43 PM Does anybody hate that bitch Catelyn as much as I do? She thinks she so much better than everybody else. She thinks she the wisest thing on the planet and the mother of all answers. She gives herself too much credit, and she must make herself feel like she has something to do with everything that's happening. She boasts about how hard being a mother is and how she's always done her duty. Well, bits, you're not the only one with a duty, and to do that is something that is expected. Robb has become a man in battle and no longer needs her teats. Nor does he need her worrying ass around and her non-battle-proven advice. She keeps these little remarks in the back of her mind like she's the key item in the war when she has slung no steel. That's just my opinion and it's absolutely right (for all of you who "think" differently.
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 4th 1:52 PM Gee, Robin, why don't you tell us how you _really_ feel?
sparhawk User ID: 0436494	May 4th 2:23 PM she does whine and whinge an awful lot.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	May 4th 2:43 PM I like Catelyn. She made a heartless comment to Jon while horribly upset over Bran's fall. Under the circumstances, no big deal. She was right about not trusting Theon -- Robb ignored her. She also gave him some fairly sound advice in helping him select who to command the infantry force. Bolton turned out to be a traitor, but her reasoning and analysis were sharp. I also think she handled herself well during her diplomatic embassy south. Renly and Stannis wouldn't listen, but that wasn't her fault. Catelyn has been defended in a lot of other places on the board, so I won't repeat everything I've said before. But I will say that I think those who criticize her might be overlooking the emotional strain she's been under. Son crippled, husband murdered, daughters kidnapped, two sons reported dead. I think that might justify a bit of whining and whinging. It's easy for us to say "get over it", but in the RW -- which Mr. Martin does a great job of emulating -- people don't just "get over" those type of repeated emotional blows.
sparhawk User ID: 0436494	May 4th 2:55 PM Jeff; how do we know bolton is definitely a traitor?
Rughead User ID: 9627953	May 4th 3:04 PM Robin, maybe some maternal issues unresolved in your psyche?
Markus User ID: 3919194	May 4th 3:05 PM I completely agree with Jeff. Furthermore, I think disliking Catelyn is often a rather emotional reaction caused by her dealings with the two most popular characters, Jon and Tyrion. Only if you reflect upon these and other actions, Catelyn becomes a realistic, well meaning but flawed protagonist.
WeissVan User ID: 0554384	May 4th 4:14 PM I'm with Jeff too -- Catelyn rocks!! She's earnest, maternal, and remarkably strong considering she believes her youngest two sons to be dead. [Cate Blanchett plays her in my movie version; Blanchett can radiate grace under pressure in her roles, and who ever plays Catelyn would need loads of that. Plus, she matches GRRM's description well {above and beyond the call of duty, one might say shiver)]
Jeff User ID: 1536664	May 4th 4:22 PM Sparhawk, we don't. I think he is, but I could be wrong. If I am wrong, though, that makes Catelyn's analysis all the sharper. I'll agree completely with Markus, particularly since he agreed so completely with me :-). Robin, you really should get Min to jump in on this one. She's been blasting away at Catelyn for at least a year. Oh, about Robb being a "man" in battle. I suppose he is, but to say he really doesn't need his mother isn't accurate. Actually, that's one reason I like him so much. Some don't like his character very much because they see him as some kind of a genius prodigy, acting well beyond his years. Unrealistic, and a cliche. But after the Whispering Wood and the Battle of the Camps, Robb almost broke down telling his mother how scared he was when Jaime Lannister almost got to him. He's a 15 year old very young man, trying his best to fill his father's very large boots, and could only go to his mom to express his fear. He's doing remarkably well, but he is terrified and I think a bit out of his depth still. That makes him a much more realistic and admirable character to me.
Hot Pie User ID: 2700404	May 4th 8:40 PM No No Robin had it right she is a whiney weak person. She is much like Ned in the fact that she is behind the times. She is the only person(of the main characters) who wants peace when it is obvious that it aint gonna happen without violence. I believe the scene with Robb's lords show exactly what i mean. No it is good to want peace but the fact that she expresses it vocally is a bad call. Because the lannasters are like animals because they will not stop until they have gotten there prey. and animals can smell fear............ Wow i would be doing that agian.....HOT PIE
Hot Pie User ID: 2700404	May 4th 8:41 PM P.S. boo to you Ran for getting rid of the other board i mean we all need some place where we can get togather and express are hate for a person or thing. disgruntled......HOT PIE ;)
Brady User ID: 0721754	May 5th 4:08 AM Hot Pie; I do not think Catelyn is behind the times in wanting peace, instead she is being a realist. She does not think that they can win, and is not blinded by a need for vengeance or honor Catelyn is annoying, but I dont hate her. I guess eveyone has a character they hate (I loathe the Hound and Stannis myself)
sparhawk User ID: 0436494	May 5th 5:47 AM nah, the hound is a class character. i partcularly liked the way he disposed of the butcher's boy, micah.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	May 5th 7:45 AM Hot Pie, I don't recall any Lannisters being present when Catelyn made her plea for peace to Robb and his bannermen, so I don't see how they could have picked up the "scent of fear".
Robin Chapman User ID: 8437443	May 5th 8:52 AM First of all, I'd like to say that ol' Martin is a genius. He's created a world that I can easily get emotionally involved in, making the story that much greater. I would recommend you anylists do the same. You're not going to hear the words "antagonist", "protagonist", or "character" from me. This ain't no English class. What you'll hear is "Bitch" and "Mutherfucker" because that's the way I see people I don't like in the "real world." Speaking of "mutherfuckers" how about that Ned Stark. Here we have a man who lives his entire life with his nose in the air, always doing the honorable thing...oh, except for that one incident when he fucked Jon's mother...oh yeah, and right before he lost his head when he sold himself out. On second thought, he's one of the few who have earn both titles of bitch and mutherfucker. What a weak asshole...talking about "if you're going to sentence a man to death, you should do the killing," or whatever. How about, if you're going to marry a girl, don't fuck anybody else. The lesson learned here is: Being honorable is something that you can't half-ass on. There's no middle of the road. When the shit hits the fan and you're faced with a choice to hold on to your honor or suffer the consequences, stand true to your honor or you will have wasted your life calling yourself an honorable man. Again, that's just my opinion and it's absolutely right. In my next post, I'll discuss someone who's not a waste of human flesh. Here's a hint: She's not very strong, niether is she smart, but she's resourseful and, like the song says, she "uses what she got, to get what she wants." Too bad the price of pussy is not as high as she would like it to be. "Givin' up the nappy dugout" is something I can respect in a woman, me being a man of action myself. Running off at the mouth like you're saying something useful (like Catelyn) is something I can't.
sparhawk User ID: 0436494	May 5th 8:57 AM you idiot, chapman. ned didn't 'fuck jon's mother' as you, being the baad ass muthafucka, would say. rather jon is his nephew. if you read any other posts you'd know that.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	May 5th 9:07 AM Sparhawk, I request that you take back your last comment as an insult to idiots everywhere. I've known many idiots in my day, and most of them would be highly offended to be compared to Chapman.
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 5th 9:14 AM Seems like Troll season finally kicked in here too.
sparhawk User ID: 0436494	May 5th 9:17 AM as the risk of sounding ignorant, what's 'troll season'?
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 5th 9:33 AM That is the season for trolls. :P Trolls can be two things. Intelligent or stupid. The intelligent sort is rather subtle and elaborate, and can be quite funny. Cfr Thor's 'The Rage of Lions' troll at rasfwr-j. The stupid sort is about as funny as watching paint dry. Basically, it's just mouthing of a series of vulgarities at some random target, in order to get people riled up, and start a flame fest. These are just here for the verbal form of masturbation that is typical for so many querulants. These are best ignored. Trying to set them straight is as productive as trying to shit gold...maybe it's possible, but I ain't holding my breath... :P