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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Sansa V

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Ran
User ID: 0283314 Oct 21st 2:51 PM
Making the placeholder for the continuation of this thread. However, because of the thread drift, we were discussing Jaime Lannister. So instead fo continuing that there, I'll post my own response to Snake's last post in Sansa IV to Jaime Lannister II. :)

Min
User ID: 1446254 Oct 22nd 3:30 AM
Nice way to get it all back in place, Ran. That'�s what a good moderator is for. :-)

Sansa... she seems to be connected to so many people, I last wrote in Sansa IV. Of all the characters, she is what seems to be closest to the RJ's Ta'veren - fate sheps around her. What is it that gives her this... duende? How can it be explained? Can it be explained at all?

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Oct 22nd 7:30 AM
Sometimes I think duende just sets itself upon those who are different (but in a good way), or might look too out of place in certain surroundings. What was that old phrase from the 70s? "You're so far out, you're in."

People with duende possess certain natural gifts: These might include beauty, charm, compassion and innocence. However, people with duende are not necessarily beautiful, they just have this certain "something" in their mannerisms that draws others to them.

Sansa's unfortunate circumstances in KL have forced her to greater heights as a person, making the duende sense in her even stronger.

Min
User ID: 1446254 Oct 22nd 8:14 AM
interesting. Does it come out of her or is it just in the perception of others?

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Oct 22nd 8:40 AM
There is an aura about her that affects the perceptions of others, IMHO.

Claidhaim
User ID: 9544623 Oct 22nd 9:07 AM
How many others does she affect? Let's see....there's Sandor, of course. Joffrey, who want's to beat her like her brother has been beating the Lannisters; Dontos, who when not totally drunk either wants to help her or fondle her for what I believe to be totally selfish reasons; Littlefinger who sees Catelyn in her daughter. So far, I'd say she really has had an affect on only Sandor. This aura is not quite powerful, yet.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Oct 22nd 9:10 AM
Claidhaim,

You have to remember, though, that Sansa is persona non grata in KL. Her family has been declared "ememies of the state" or somesuch by the idiot king himself. Regardless of her duende, people will keep their distance.

Min
User ID: 1446254 Oct 22nd 9:40 AM
You are right, Claid. Yet.

Claidhaim
User ID: 9544623 Oct 22nd 10:40 AM
I am waiting to hear more from this child. Her salvation will cause much turmoil in the current state of affair between North and South and Lannister and Tyrell.

Moreta
User ID: 9565813 Oct 22nd 4:59 PM
Of what salvation do you speak of, Claid? Her salvation from King's Landing (escape) or her saving of someone's soul, perhaps Sandor's soul, or ?

If Sansa was ugly or plain then she would not be what she is. Her beauty is what people see first.

Claidhaim
User ID: 9544623 Oct 25th 9:47 AM
The mere act of trying to get her out of King's Landing is going to make people re-think their loyalties and the loyalties of others.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Oct 25th 10:42 AM
At this point in time, Claid, I think that might be a good thing.

Min
User ID: 9433023 Oct 25th 2:51 PM
WHERE have you been, Moreta? Welcome back! :-)

re-thinking is always a good point, My Lord. It never makes things easier, but it is always good. Fear the ones who never question themselves.

Ser Gary
User ID: 9279843 Oct 25th 5:47 PM
The state of the Seven Kingdoms is dismal. For all intents and purposes, something akin to a world war is taking place there. The economy is bad, and people cannot adequately feed themselves and their families. There is political turmoil which, obviously, played a big part in effecting the war. The question of who is the rightful king is not nearly as significant as who is currently in charge of things.

King's Landing may fall before Robb or Stannis or Dany even get inside its walls. KL's civilian population may overthrow the government. Who will lead them? How about a young woman who does not carry a sword and is named Stark. Stop laughing.

Min
User ID: 1446254 Oct 26th 3:43 AM
Sansa? No one is more part of the nobility than her. She does not know and she does not care about the peasants. She made that crystal clear in AGoT, and I do not think that this attidude changed already. You know I came to like the girl, but face it: The lower folk means nothing to her.

Ran
User ID: 0283314 Oct 26th 7:03 AM
Min,

She's shown a certain level of compassion. She was the one who suggested that Joffrey give the woman with the dead child something. It's an immature compassion, without much practice or knowledge, but it's compassion nonetheless. As she grows older it'll be the better.

She may not ever manage to be fully sympathetic to the smallfolk, but she'll be the sort who -- if things go a certain way -- will be remembered as a benefactor to them.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Oct 26th 11:21 AM
Ser Gary;

Your hopes for Sansa aside, I believe the people of King's Landing will not rebel anytime soon. As long as the hunger went on, there was always a chance (and indeed, there were more than tendencies of that sort as Stannis approached KL), but as soon as the Roseroad was lifted, I expect food to be pouring into the capital as normal, and people will settle down.

The Reach (which I suppose is the part of Westeros that produces most food) has not been touched by war to any extent so far.
And Stannis is out of the picture now; there's no one immediately threatening the city.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Oct 26th 2:09 PM
KAH, what you say may or may not be true -- but in times of war the troops get fed first. In fact, the troops are catered to in every respect. And when they're not they'll forcibly take action themselves. Even were there enough food to go around, I question whether it would trickle down to the populace.

Min, Ran said it. Sansa, yes Sansa, is showing more and more compassion and maturity. Her eyes have been opened to the plight of the less fortunate. Remember when the crowd attacked the King's party in KL? She saw the hatred then and perhaps even realized the justice in it. As a prisoner, she is no better off than these people and may soon start to count herself among them.

Sansa won't openly seek this station of leadership. The common people will eventually bestow it upon her. Really. It will happen.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Oct 27th 8:39 AM
Ser Gary,

What you said is true, but I believe that is just what happened when the Roseroad was cut off - all the soldiers were fed first, leaving next to nothing to the general populace.

You will note that there were no mention of complaints of hunger among the soldiers. Now there ought to be much more food in town.

There are much more troops around also, granted, but I doubt very much that they will all stay at KL - they will move either in pursuit of Stannis, or towards the Riverlands (or both), leaving a smaller portion behind.

In any case, a soldier can only eat so much before he is sated; thus, I hardly expect them to eat up every scrap of food in town. With the major regular pre-war channel of food supply (the Roseroad) reopened, I expect food prices to come down to a much more affordable level.

It might still be somewhat expensive, but not to the extent that major parts of the KL population can't afford it.
Only those who are very poor will still struggle, as they struggled in more peaceful times.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Oct 27th 9:33 AM
Good stuff, KAH. The food issue aside, though, the commonfolk of KL have to be very concerned about the ongoing lack of competent rule. First they had the Mad King, who basically initiated a war; then they had Robert, who did not pay much attention to ruling the kingdom; and now they have this arrogant kid, who probably doesn't even have a legitimate claim to the throne and has proven himself a pompous little pri....prince. That's about 20 years of this foolishness, and seemingly plenty more to come with the Lannisters in charge. Were I a subject of the realm, I would be VERY concerned.

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Ran User ID: 0283314	Oct 21st 2:51 PM Making the placeholder for the continuation of this thread. However, because of the thread drift, we were discussing Jaime Lannister. So instead fo continuing that there, I'll post my own response to Snake's last post in Sansa IV to Jaime Lannister II. :)
Min User ID: 1446254	Oct 22nd 3:30 AM Nice way to get it all back in place, Ran. That'�s what a good moderator is for. :-) Sansa... she seems to be connected to so many people, I last wrote in Sansa IV. Of all the characters, she is what seems to be closest to the RJ's Ta'veren - fate sheps around her. What is it that gives her this... duende? How can it be explained? Can it be explained at all?
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Oct 22nd 7:30 AM Sometimes I think duende just sets itself upon those who are different (but in a good way), or might look too out of place in certain surroundings. What was that old phrase from the 70s? "You're so far out, you're in." People with duende possess certain natural gifts: These might include beauty, charm, compassion and innocence. However, people with duende are not necessarily beautiful, they just have this certain "something" in their mannerisms that draws others to them. Sansa's unfortunate circumstances in KL have forced her to greater heights as a person, making the duende sense in her even stronger.
Min User ID: 1446254	Oct 22nd 8:14 AM interesting. Does it come out of her or is it just in the perception of others?
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Oct 22nd 8:40 AM There is an aura about her that affects the perceptions of others, IMHO.
Claidhaim User ID: 9544623	Oct 22nd 9:07 AM How many others does she affect? Let's see....there's Sandor, of course. Joffrey, who want's to beat her like her brother has been beating the Lannisters; Dontos, who when not totally drunk either wants to help her or fondle her for what I believe to be totally selfish reasons; Littlefinger who sees Catelyn in her daughter. So far, I'd say she really has had an affect on only Sandor. This aura is not quite powerful, yet.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Oct 22nd 9:10 AM Claidhaim, You have to remember, though, that Sansa is persona non grata in KL. Her family has been declared "ememies of the state" or somesuch by the idiot king himself. Regardless of her duende, people will keep their distance.
Min User ID: 1446254	Oct 22nd 9:40 AM You are right, Claid. Yet.
Claidhaim User ID: 9544623	Oct 22nd 10:40 AM I am waiting to hear more from this child. Her salvation will cause much turmoil in the current state of affair between North and South and Lannister and Tyrell.
Moreta User ID: 9565813	Oct 22nd 4:59 PM Of what salvation do you speak of, Claid? Her salvation from King's Landing (escape) or her saving of someone's soul, perhaps Sandor's soul, or ? If Sansa was ugly or plain then she would not be what she is. Her beauty is what people see first.
Claidhaim User ID: 9544623	Oct 25th 9:47 AM The mere act of trying to get her out of King's Landing is going to make people re-think their loyalties and the loyalties of others.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Oct 25th 10:42 AM At this point in time, Claid, I think that might be a good thing.
Min User ID: 9433023	Oct 25th 2:51 PM WHERE have you been, Moreta? Welcome back! :-) re-thinking is always a good point, My Lord. It never makes things easier, but it is always good. Fear the ones who never question themselves.
Ser Gary User ID: 9279843	Oct 25th 5:47 PM The state of the Seven Kingdoms is dismal. For all intents and purposes, something akin to a world war is taking place there. The economy is bad, and people cannot adequately feed themselves and their families. There is political turmoil which, obviously, played a big part in effecting the war. The question of who is the rightful king is not nearly as significant as who is currently in charge of things. King's Landing may fall before Robb or Stannis or Dany even get inside its walls. KL's civilian population may overthrow the government. Who will lead them? How about a young woman who does not carry a sword and is named Stark. Stop laughing.
Min User ID: 1446254	Oct 26th 3:43 AM Sansa? No one is more part of the nobility than her. She does not know and she does not care about the peasants. She made that crystal clear in AGoT, and I do not think that this attidude changed already. You know I came to like the girl, but face it: The lower folk means nothing to her.
Ran User ID: 0283314	Oct 26th 7:03 AM Min, She's shown a certain level of compassion. She was the one who suggested that Joffrey give the woman with the dead child something. It's an immature compassion, without much practice or knowledge, but it's compassion nonetheless. As she grows older it'll be the better. She may not ever manage to be fully sympathetic to the smallfolk, but she'll be the sort who -- if things go a certain way -- will be remembered as a benefactor to them.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Oct 26th 11:21 AM Ser Gary; Your hopes for Sansa aside, I believe the people of King's Landing will not rebel anytime soon. As long as the hunger went on, there was always a chance (and indeed, there were more than tendencies of that sort as Stannis approached KL), but as soon as the Roseroad was lifted, I expect food to be pouring into the capital as normal, and people will settle down. The Reach (which I suppose is the part of Westeros that produces most food) has not been touched by war to any extent so far. And Stannis is out of the picture now; there's no one immediately threatening the city.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Oct 26th 2:09 PM KAH, what you say may or may not be true -- but in times of war the troops get fed first. In fact, the troops are catered to in every respect. And when they're not they'll forcibly take action themselves. Even were there enough food to go around, I question whether it would trickle down to the populace. Min, Ran said it. Sansa, yes Sansa, is showing more and more compassion and maturity. Her eyes have been opened to the plight of the less fortunate. Remember when the crowd attacked the King's party in KL? She saw the hatred then and perhaps even realized the justice in it. As a prisoner, she is no better off than these people and may soon start to count herself among them. Sansa won't openly seek this station of leadership. The common people will eventually bestow it upon her. Really. It will happen.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Oct 27th 8:39 AM Ser Gary, What you said is true, but I believe that is just what happened when the Roseroad was cut off - all the soldiers were fed first, leaving next to nothing to the general populace. You will note that there were no mention of complaints of hunger among the soldiers. Now there ought to be much more food in town. There are much more troops around also, granted, but I doubt very much that they will all stay at KL - they will move either in pursuit of Stannis, or towards the Riverlands (or both), leaving a smaller portion behind. In any case, a soldier can only eat so much before he is sated; thus, I hardly expect them to eat up every scrap of food in town. With the major regular pre-war channel of food supply (the Roseroad) reopened, I expect food prices to come down to a much more affordable level. It might still be somewhat expensive, but not to the extent that major parts of the KL population can't afford it. Only those who are very poor will still struggle, as they struggled in more peaceful times.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Oct 27th 9:33 AM Good stuff, KAH. The food issue aside, though, the commonfolk of KL have to be very concerned about the ongoing lack of competent rule. First they had the Mad King, who basically initiated a war; then they had Robert, who did not pay much attention to ruling the kingdom; and now they have this arrogant kid, who probably doesn't even have a legitimate claim to the throne and has proven himself a pompous little pri....prince. That's about 20 years of this foolishness, and seemingly plenty more to come with the Lannisters in charge. Were I a subject of the realm, I would be VERY concerned.