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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Black Tom Cat

Relic
User ID: 8917553 Dec 4th 0:51 AM
Throughout both books, there is reference to a "argged black tom cat with a chewed off ear". First Arya chases it around the Red Keep, then Varys refers to a little black Tom cat one of the Tagaryen princess played with. In ACOK, Sansa runs into it briefly. Hehe, maybe im gettin real bored, or jumping to conclusions since im re-reading the books, but this this little kitty have any impact on the story? Has anyone else noticed him? Is this just a referance point that Martin uses, or something more?

Hmmm...does anyone even care =)?

Mike
User ID: 1370014 Dec 4th 2:35 AM
Didn't Joffrey shoot the cat with a crossbow?

Jaeger
User ID: 7378223 Dec 4th 3:40 AM
With his aim, not bloody likely. I think there is some interesting implication's. That there are some things that go on no matter the circumstances.

Tom R.
User ID: 0164614 Dec 4th 5:58 AM
Hi there, folks. I normally don't post on this BB, but noticed this thread. On the Dragonsworn board there's been some discussion about that cat, Balerion, and Emilie got a (cryptic) response from GRRM about it. I've copied here FYI
____________

Emilie
Member
posted 11-14-1999 09:04 PM

WOW!
Okay... I got the nerve to actually e-mail GRRM today and ask two questions... Here is the important stuff:

1)What happened to Jeyne Poole?
"All will be revealed in the fullness of time"

2)Is the black tomcat (the one that Arya catches briefly) Rhaenys' kitten, Balerion? "Could be!"

cgob
User ID: 0053014 Dec 4th 3:31 PM
Way too cool. GRRM is.

Tom R.
User ID: 0164614 Dec 4th 7:05 PM
My own (yes, crazy, I know) theory is that the Princess Rhaenys was linked/bonded to that cat in a similar way to how the Targaryens used to bond with their dragons and in the same way the Starks are currently linked with their direwolves.

I suspect there's a lot more to that cat than meets the eye.

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Dec 4th 10:58 PM
I am pretty convinced you are on to something about the cat. Here are my reasons:

I wrote GRRM on Nov 9. No reply (I know he has a deadline, so no big deal, really). However, Emilie got a reasponse from him on Nov 14. He must have really liked whatever she said!

Also, I just think it is quite unlike him to say "could be" and then have it not so. Thats just based on meeting him personally. I just can't imagine him saying "could be" to the theory of a fan and then having it turn out that there is nothing to it. He just is not like that.

And yes, I did notice the cat. But no, I have not had any warg like thoughts about it. My present theory is that the cat will lead to some secrets regarding the children of Rhegar and perhaps Rhegar himself. Whether it involves finding bodies or something else, I am not sure.

Anyway, I am really glad some people noticed the cat enough to discuss him and to ask GRRM!

Tom R.
User ID: 0164614 Dec 5th 6:12 AM
Neat idea, LE. That cat would know the Red Keep like nobody's business and may well lead someone (Sansa?) to discover something of importance. It had better happen soon, though, as I'm not sure the cat, who's been around a long time (if it WAS Rhaenys' cat) would survive the 5-year interim period coming up after ASOS. I do believe that Rhaenys is dead, but I have been wondering lately about this creature-person warg connection thing, with the dragons, direwolves, etc.

Where would it leave the affected animal once the human part of the link is gone? Not sure ... but I imagine that the animal would never go back to being "just an animal" again. It all reminds me of the notion from the Middle Ages about witches and their "familiars" (their cats, dogs, etc.). If I remember my history correctly, the people feared (and destroyed) them BOTH. I wonder about that...

Min
User ID: 9433023 Dec 5th 6:56 AM
I thought about the cat, too. I never thought that it might be a warg-cat, though. Neat idea. We know that not only wolves can bond to their masters, though: We know about the eagle who flies with the wildlings.

And this Tom cat seems to be pretty old, so...

labor
User ID: 8785553 Dec 5th 8:21 AM
Well, I was absolutely positive that the black tom-cat was Balerion. I have wondered about him being a warg-animal too. After all he did display a marked dislike of Lord Tywin. However, he seems to be of wrong sex. OTOH, we have no clue whether cross-sex warg bonding is possible.And from the wildling's eagle it seems likely that the part of the human warg's personality does remain in the animal - the wildlings said to Jon that eagle used to be a man before Jon killed him.

I really wonder, though if bond-animal's life-span is somehow extended through the bonding and what happens when the animal dies once the bond has been fully established (i.e. not like Sansa and Lady). Could it be that part of the _animal's_ personality comes to reside in the human and that's the reason why even the Northeners south of the wall are afraid of wargs and consider them abonimations?

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Dec 5th 12:19 PM
Well, in the Stark children's case, it seems that the direwolves' personalities mirrored the children's. Perhaps, if the wolf dies, the Stark child's natural personality becomes _exaggerated_.

I.e. Sansa became even more naive after Lady died.

Hehe. :o)

More seriously, though;
perhaps the other part of the bond takes over certain traits that isn't natural in it. For instance, the wildling-eagle 'hated' Jon.
Eagles don't hate.

Sooo...what will become of a Stark child whose wolf die? What personality traits does a wolf have that a human does not? More aggressiveness? More caution? Preferring meat? :o)

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Dec 5th 12:26 PM
As for why people would think of it as an abonimation...face it, people are stupid about some things. If it's unknown, unheard of or unusual, people will tend to regard it with suspicion.

Just take magic. The peasants probably scare themselves shitless on stories about evil magicians, and think of magic as evil by inference, and think of wargs as magic. Simple as that.

Of course, it hardly helps if a few wargs goes into a killing spree because the warg bond alters their personalities...

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Dec 6th 6:39 PM
I am still not convinced that the black cat was a warg partner to Balerion. However, I find the speculation on what happens if one partner in the human/animal warg bond dies. I feel that Sansa actually became more wolf like after Lady's death. She is still naive, but she has shown more of a tendency toward cunning. Keep in mind that Lady died as a pup, presumably before any bond was strong. I sort of hope that some part of the spirit of Lady goes on in Sansa, helping her to be a strong, determined and cunning fighter. I think she is partly getting there.

Tom R.
User ID: 0164614 Dec 7th 5:08 AM
Here's a question: Who, in Westeros, that is, would know and/or understand the whole warg animal idea? In other words, who is going to explain this idea to us, the readers? It seems to me that the Wildlings seem to know the most about this. I have hopes that, in ASOS, some more light will be shed on this topic--perhaps on the Osha/Rickon front or on the Bran/Reed(s) front.

I find it very intriguing, I must say. ANd the reason this particular thread caught my eye is that I am starving for any information I can get about Elia and her children (they make for such a sad and incredible story!). Perhaps, Rhaenys lives on in that cat somehow. Or, if Rhaenys is somehow still alive, as at least one poster has suggested, perhaps the cat will lead us to her?

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Dec 7th 5:44 AM
I suppose that most people south of the Neck has a completely skewed idea of Wargs (see Lancel's explanation for what happened at Oxcross), and I guess in general they don't have much better ideas north of the Neck either. (Ned didn't understand the bond between the wolves and the children, else he would probably not have killed Lady)

The Wildings seem to know much, as well as the crannogmen (at least Jojen suggests so).

The Maesters seem to know a lot, and have probably recorded as much knowledge they can about anything. See, for instance, Maester Luwin's crash course in magic.
It suggests that they are more open-minded than the average noble/peasant, but also with a more _critical_ mind.
I suppose they could know a whole lot Warg 'lore', without accepting it as truth.

Padraig
User ID: 2372774 Dec 7th 12:57 PM
Well if Rhaenys lives on as a warg then we have a new contender for the third head of the dragon. Balerion the Cat!

Relic User ID: 8917553	Dec 4th 0:51 AM Throughout both books, there is reference to a "argged black tom cat with a chewed off ear". First Arya chases it around the Red Keep, then Varys refers to a little black Tom cat one of the Tagaryen princess played with. In ACOK, Sansa runs into it briefly. Hehe, maybe im gettin real bored, or jumping to conclusions since im re-reading the books, but this this little kitty have any impact on the story? Has anyone else noticed him? Is this just a referance point that Martin uses, or something more? Hmmm...does anyone even care =)?
Mike User ID: 1370014	Dec 4th 2:35 AM Didn't Joffrey shoot the cat with a crossbow?
Jaeger User ID: 7378223	Dec 4th 3:40 AM With his aim, not bloody likely. I think there is some interesting implication's. That there are some things that go on no matter the circumstances.
Tom R. User ID: 0164614	Dec 4th 5:58 AM Hi there, folks. I normally don't post on this BB, but noticed this thread. On the Dragonsworn board there's been some discussion about that cat, Balerion, and Emilie got a (cryptic) response from GRRM about it. I've copied here FYI ____________ Emilie Member posted 11-14-1999 09:04 PM WOW! Okay... I got the nerve to actually e-mail GRRM today and ask two questions... Here is the important stuff: 1)What happened to Jeyne Poole? "All will be revealed in the fullness of time" 2)Is the black tomcat (the one that Arya catches briefly) Rhaenys' kitten, Balerion? "Could be!"
cgob User ID: 0053014	Dec 4th 3:31 PM Way too cool. GRRM is.
Tom R. User ID: 0164614	Dec 4th 7:05 PM My own (yes, crazy, I know) theory is that the Princess Rhaenys was linked/bonded to that cat in a similar way to how the Targaryens used to bond with their dragons and in the same way the Starks are currently linked with their direwolves. I suspect there's a lot more to that cat than meets the eye.
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Dec 4th 10:58 PM I am pretty convinced you are on to something about the cat. Here are my reasons: I wrote GRRM on Nov 9. No reply (I know he has a deadline, so no big deal, really). However, Emilie got a reasponse from him on Nov 14. He must have really liked whatever she said! Also, I just think it is quite unlike him to say "could be" and then have it not so. Thats just based on meeting him personally. I just can't imagine him saying "could be" to the theory of a fan and then having it turn out that there is nothing to it. He just is not like that. And yes, I did notice the cat. But no, I have not had any warg like thoughts about it. My present theory is that the cat will lead to some secrets regarding the children of Rhegar and perhaps Rhegar himself. Whether it involves finding bodies or something else, I am not sure. Anyway, I am really glad some people noticed the cat enough to discuss him and to ask GRRM!
Tom R. User ID: 0164614	Dec 5th 6:12 AM Neat idea, LE. That cat would know the Red Keep like nobody's business and may well lead someone (Sansa?) to discover something of importance. It had better happen soon, though, as I'm not sure the cat, who's been around a long time (if it WAS Rhaenys' cat) would survive the 5-year interim period coming up after ASOS. I do believe that Rhaenys is dead, but I have been wondering lately about this creature-person warg connection thing, with the dragons, direwolves, etc. Where would it leave the affected animal once the human part of the link is gone? Not sure ... but I imagine that the animal would never go back to being "just an animal" again. It all reminds me of the notion from the Middle Ages about witches and their "familiars" (their cats, dogs, etc.). If I remember my history correctly, the people feared (and destroyed) them BOTH. I wonder about that...
Min User ID: 9433023	Dec 5th 6:56 AM I thought about the cat, too. I never thought that it might be a warg-cat, though. Neat idea. We know that not only wolves can bond to their masters, though: We know about the eagle who flies with the wildlings. And this Tom cat seems to be pretty old, so...
labor User ID: 8785553	Dec 5th 8:21 AM Well, I was absolutely positive that the black tom-cat was Balerion. I have wondered about him being a warg-animal too. After all he did display a marked dislike of Lord Tywin. However, he seems to be of wrong sex. OTOH, we have no clue whether cross-sex warg bonding is possible.And from the wildling's eagle it seems likely that the part of the human warg's personality does remain in the animal - the wildlings said to Jon that eagle used to be a man before Jon killed him. I really wonder, though if bond-animal's life-span is somehow extended through the bonding and what happens when the animal dies once the bond has been fully established (i.e. not like Sansa and Lady). Could it be that part of the _animal's_ personality comes to reside in the human and that's the reason why even the Northeners south of the wall are afraid of wargs and consider them abonimations?
KAH User ID: 9209903	Dec 5th 12:19 PM Well, in the Stark children's case, it seems that the direwolves' personalities mirrored the children's. Perhaps, if the wolf dies, the Stark child's natural personality becomes _exaggerated_. I.e. Sansa became even more naive after Lady died. Hehe. :o) More seriously, though; perhaps the other part of the bond takes over certain traits that isn't natural in it. For instance, the wildling-eagle 'hated' Jon. Eagles don't hate. Sooo...what will become of a Stark child whose wolf die? What personality traits does a wolf have that a human does not? More aggressiveness? More caution? Preferring meat? :o)
KAH User ID: 9209903	Dec 5th 12:26 PM As for why people would think of it as an abonimation...face it, people are stupid about some things. If it's unknown, unheard of or unusual, people will tend to regard it with suspicion. Just take magic. The peasants probably scare themselves shitless on stories about evil magicians, and think of magic as evil by inference, and think of wargs as magic. Simple as that. Of course, it hardly helps if a few wargs goes into a killing spree because the warg bond alters their personalities...
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Dec 6th 6:39 PM I am still not convinced that the black cat was a warg partner to Balerion. However, I find the speculation on what happens if one partner in the human/animal warg bond dies. I feel that Sansa actually became more wolf like after Lady's death. She is still naive, but she has shown more of a tendency toward cunning. Keep in mind that Lady died as a pup, presumably before any bond was strong. I sort of hope that some part of the spirit of Lady goes on in Sansa, helping her to be a strong, determined and cunning fighter. I think she is partly getting there.
Tom R. User ID: 0164614	Dec 7th 5:08 AM Here's a question: Who, in Westeros, that is, would know and/or understand the whole warg animal idea? In other words, who is going to explain this idea to us, the readers? It seems to me that the Wildlings seem to know the most about this. I have hopes that, in ASOS, some more light will be shed on this topic--perhaps on the Osha/Rickon front or on the Bran/Reed(s) front. I find it very intriguing, I must say. ANd the reason this particular thread caught my eye is that I am starving for any information I can get about Elia and her children (they make for such a sad and incredible story!). Perhaps, Rhaenys lives on in that cat somehow. Or, if Rhaenys is somehow still alive, as at least one poster has suggested, perhaps the cat will lead us to her?
KAH User ID: 9209903	Dec 7th 5:44 AM I suppose that most people south of the Neck has a completely skewed idea of Wargs (see Lancel's explanation for what happened at Oxcross), and I guess in general they don't have much better ideas north of the Neck either. (Ned didn't understand the bond between the wolves and the children, else he would probably not have killed Lady) The Wildings seem to know much, as well as the crannogmen (at least Jojen suggests so). The Maesters seem to know a lot, and have probably recorded as much knowledge they can about anything. See, for instance, Maester Luwin's crash course in magic. It suggests that they are more open-minded than the average noble/peasant, but also with a more _critical_ mind. I suppose they could know a whole lot Warg 'lore', without accepting it as truth.
Padraig User ID: 2372774	Dec 7th 12:57 PM Well if Rhaenys lives on as a warg then we have a new contender for the third head of the dragon. Balerion the Cat!