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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Melisandre's Shadow Baby II

Next 20 Messages

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Feb 7th 4:06 PM
Broken Thread.

Rughead wrote:

Melisandre gave birth to a lovely shadow that groped its way out of her womb and boffed Ser Cortnay Penrose.

Davos witnessed the blessed moment beneath Storm's End and watched the shadow grow and be on its way. GRRM comments, "He knew that shadow. As he knew the man who'd cast it."

How does one "know" that shadow? Is the man who cast it someone other than Stannis?

KAH wrote:

No. :o)

Omer wrote:

probably not

Padraig wrote:

If one has seen that shadow before then one "knows" it. And from what Catelyn said about Renly's killer I would@#$#@$^START:6

I presumed that the shadow was the shadow of the man the shadow was sent to kill, not the shadow of stannis. . i.e., to kill renly, hse gave birth to a shadow-renly, so forth.

Ser Gary
User ID: 1523284 Feb 8th 7:33 AM
It never struck me that way. I assumed the shadow was of the person intending to do the killing, not of the victim. Why would anyone assume the latter?

Padraig
User ID: 8841313 Feb 8th 1:56 PM
I agree. It would explain why Catelyn thought Stannis killed Ranly. That really confused me when I read aCok first. It was only later I realised she must have sub-conciously recognised Stannis's shadow. And then Davos recognises that same shadow in Storm's End. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Now what was I trying to say in my earlier post?

Dirjj
User ID: 6960173 Feb 8th 2:37 PM
I thought that we all thought that the shadow was Stannis. It had never crossed my mind that it wasn't him. He's the shadowless blue eyed King.

ab

Vanryker
User ID: 1300074 Feb 8th 3:08 PM
I totally agree with Padraig and Dirjj - Stannis was the shadow.

calenth
User ID: 2525954 Feb 9th 5:43 PM
the thread this came was from bugged, but *I* was the one who thought the shadow was the shadow of the target. After having read the books more closely, I disagree with myself (hah!) and think it was stannis' shadow after all.

Which means that whole birth thing is kinda kinky, no?

Denecho
User ID: 2240694 Feb 9th 6:36 PM
Would anyone here know when A Storm Of Swords will be released???

Padraig
User ID: 0993624 Feb 10th 12:30 PM
Hi Denecho. Sometime in July hopefully. Or tomorrow if you want to be really hopeful.

Blackstone
User ID: 2107894 Apr 15th 11:34 AM
Is Stannis paying a price for fathering these Shadow Childern? Or is the War just getting to him?

Davos remarks that his King seems to have aged.

Padraig
User ID: 3062694 Apr 15th 1:01 PM
I would imagine he is paying the price. Normally I expect he is too bloated with self-righteousness to actually worry much. Now he is playing with different demons.

BTW has anyone else wondered about male Shadowbinders?

Blackstone
User ID: 2107894 Apr 15th 2:17 PM
You know Thoros of Myr is a Red Preist, like Mellisandre is a Red Presitess. I wonder what he can do.

BTW, he is one of my favoritte characters, I just like the idea of him scaling the walls of Pyke with a flaming sword and being first over the wall!

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Apr 15th 4:05 PM
Oh, I don't think Thoros of Myr has any sorcerous ability. I think Melisandre is rather unique in that, even.

Ghost
User ID: 9704903 Apr 17th 10:36 AM
Why would Melisandre be unique in that? Other followers of the Lord of Light have also shown to have sorcerous abillity (Mirri Maz Duur and Jaqen H'ghar). I'm curious how a Red Priestess would relate to a 'maegi' and to whatever Jaqen H'ghar is.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Apr 17th 11:41 AM
Mirri Maz Duur was not a follower of the Lord of Light. She followed the Great Shepherd. Jaqen H'ghar is not a red priest, on the other hand -- he believes in R'hllor, but he's not a priest of it.

I think Melisandre is unique in being a shadowbinder who follows R'hllor as a priestess -- just call it a feeling. I have a feeling that the priesthood in general doesn't go in for allowing its priests and priestesses to study shadow sorcery, if any sorcery at all.

Padraig
User ID: 9697893 Apr 17th 3:41 PM
Wasn't Quaithe a shadowbinder and a Red Priest as well? Cetainly was one of them.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Apr 18th 4:13 AM
Quaithe was mentioned as a Shadowbinder, at least once.

ghost
User ID: 9704903 Apr 18th 11:01 AM
You're right Ran. I was confused becouse Mirri Maz Duur and Jaqen Hghar both stated: only death can pay for life.

One could place Melisandre giving birth to a shadow wich kills in that same perspective: only life can pay for death?!

Padraig
User ID: 2309834 Apr 18th 1:58 PM
Must look this up someday. I had thought she too was wandering around in this red gark.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Apr 18th 2:28 PM
I looked. Not a priestess, far as I can tell, and it's never applied to her. We know she's in a robe of some sort -- I presume it's black, but I can't really find any exact reference -- and her mask is lacquered red. But I don't think that means anything in particular. You'd think it would have been mentioned if she claimed to be a red priestess.

Padraig
User ID: 2309834 Apr 18th 3:05 PM
Okay thanks, it might have been the red mask that confused me.

Next 20 Messages

Ran User ID: 0867924	Feb 7th 4:06 PM Broken Thread. Rughead wrote: Melisandre gave birth to a lovely shadow that groped its way out of her womb and boffed Ser Cortnay Penrose. Davos witnessed the blessed moment beneath Storm's End and watched the shadow grow and be on its way. GRRM comments, "He knew that shadow. As he knew the man who'd cast it." How does one "know" that shadow? Is the man who cast it someone other than Stannis? KAH wrote: No. :o) Omer wrote: probably not Padraig wrote: If one has seen that shadow before then one "knows" it. And from what Catelyn said about Renly's killer I would@#$#@$^START:6 I presumed that the shadow was the shadow of the man the shadow was sent to kill, not the shadow of stannis. . i.e., to kill renly, hse gave birth to a shadow-renly, so forth.
Ser Gary User ID: 1523284	Feb 8th 7:33 AM It never struck me that way. I assumed the shadow was of the person intending to do the killing, not of the victim. Why would anyone assume the latter?
Padraig User ID: 8841313	Feb 8th 1:56 PM I agree. It would explain why Catelyn thought Stannis killed Ranly. That really confused me when I read aCok first. It was only later I realised she must have sub-conciously recognised Stannis's shadow. And then Davos recognises that same shadow in Storm's End. Makes a lot of sense to me. Now what was I trying to say in my earlier post?
Dirjj User ID: 6960173	Feb 8th 2:37 PM I thought that we all thought that the shadow was Stannis. It had never crossed my mind that it wasn't him. He's the shadowless blue eyed King. ab
Vanryker User ID: 1300074	Feb 8th 3:08 PM I totally agree with Padraig and Dirjj - Stannis was the shadow.
calenth User ID: 2525954	Feb 9th 5:43 PM the thread this came was from bugged, but I was the one who thought the shadow was the shadow of the target. After having read the books more closely, I disagree with myself (hah!) and think it was stannis' shadow after all. Which means that whole birth thing is kinda kinky, no?
Denecho User ID: 2240694	Feb 9th 6:36 PM Would anyone here know when A Storm Of Swords will be released???
Padraig User ID: 0993624	Feb 10th 12:30 PM Hi Denecho. Sometime in July hopefully. Or tomorrow if you want to be really hopeful.
Blackstone User ID: 2107894	Apr 15th 11:34 AM Is Stannis paying a price for fathering these Shadow Childern? Or is the War just getting to him? Davos remarks that his King seems to have aged.
Padraig User ID: 3062694	Apr 15th 1:01 PM I would imagine he is paying the price. Normally I expect he is too bloated with self-righteousness to actually worry much. Now he is playing with different demons. BTW has anyone else wondered about male Shadowbinders?
Blackstone User ID: 2107894	Apr 15th 2:17 PM You know Thoros of Myr is a Red Preist, like Mellisandre is a Red Presitess. I wonder what he can do. BTW, he is one of my favoritte characters, I just like the idea of him scaling the walls of Pyke with a flaming sword and being first over the wall!
Ran User ID: 0867924	Apr 15th 4:05 PM Oh, I don't think Thoros of Myr has any sorcerous ability. I think Melisandre is rather unique in that, even.
Ghost User ID: 9704903	Apr 17th 10:36 AM Why would Melisandre be unique in that? Other followers of the Lord of Light have also shown to have sorcerous abillity (Mirri Maz Duur and Jaqen H'ghar). I'm curious how a Red Priestess would relate to a 'maegi' and to whatever Jaqen H'ghar is.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Apr 17th 11:41 AM Mirri Maz Duur was not a follower of the Lord of Light. She followed the Great Shepherd. Jaqen H'ghar is not a red priest, on the other hand -- he believes in R'hllor, but he's not a priest of it. I think Melisandre is unique in being a shadowbinder who follows R'hllor as a priestess -- just call it a feeling. I have a feeling that the priesthood in general doesn't go in for allowing its priests and priestesses to study shadow sorcery, if any sorcery at all.
Padraig User ID: 9697893	Apr 17th 3:41 PM Wasn't Quaithe a shadowbinder and a Red Priest as well? Cetainly was one of them.
KAH User ID: 0541004	Apr 18th 4:13 AM Quaithe was mentioned as a Shadowbinder, at least once.
ghost User ID: 9704903	Apr 18th 11:01 AM You're right Ran. I was confused becouse Mirri Maz Duur and Jaqen Hghar both stated: only death can pay for life. One could place Melisandre giving birth to a shadow wich kills in that same perspective: only life can pay for death?!
Padraig User ID: 2309834	Apr 18th 1:58 PM Must look this up someday. I had thought she too was wandering around in this red gark.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Apr 18th 2:28 PM I looked. Not a priestess, far as I can tell, and it's never applied to her. We know she's in a robe of some sort -- I presume it's black, but I can't really find any exact reference -- and her mask is lacquered red. But I don't think that means anything in particular. You'd think it would have been mentioned if she claimed to be a red priestess.
Padraig User ID: 2309834	Apr 18th 3:05 PM Okay thanks, it might have been the red mask that confused me.