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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Who don't want targayen to rule?

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Flayed Man
User ID: 9147853 Feb 21st 3:58 PM
Well we have heard what a shitty Aegon the dragon did, and how long they have ruled ect. but i believe it is time for new dynasty. I feel that targayens are yesterday's news. I believe it is new house to become a king.

These houses are my next candidate for next true and long dynasty

1) Starks

2) Martells

3) remaining of Baratheons

4)Lannisters

5) Tyrells

to me even though dany have dragons and have remaining of khal's army, i don't think she can be next dynasty. she is too weak and even with help of martell i feel that martells will use her as puppet. come on now we seen and heard enough about targayens now it is time for the new rule.

Generic Eric
User ID: 8339223 Feb 21st 4:21 PM
I never liked Dany in the first place...
But I don't feel like getting into that on this thread!

Flayed Man, I take it you don't speak english well? --Thats NOT a criticism, just wondering! 8-)

I, Claudius
User ID: 0505634 Feb 21st 4:34 PM
Interesting question, Flayed, let's study each case:

1.Starks: they melt once they cross the Neck. In other words, the Starks are too "northern", they wouldn't like to be kings of Westeros, even if they could (they can't).

2.Martells: the same problem that we have with the Starks, their culture is diferent from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, they don't seem to be willing to take the power in KL. At the most, they could declare Dorne independent (as Robb did with the North) and let the others to quarrel among themselves.

3.Remaining Baratheons: is Joff a Baratheon?. We know that he is not but, legally, he is the rightfull heir to the throne. Stannis is too weak now, and he will be a terrible king.

4.Lannisters: with Joff they don't need anybody else. The problem is that Joff doesn't seem a very good candidate to beguin a long dynasty. Maybe Tommen.

5.Tyrells: of course, why not? perhaps one of these days the Lannisters will learn that the rose is a beautifull flower that has thorns.

There is something that I don't remember well: is Dany barren after what happened with her son?. If so, the Targaryen Restoration could be short lived.

Ser Gary
User ID: 1502094 Feb 21st 5:09 PM
Unless, of course, Jon stands up to be counted as a true Targaryen heir.

Moreta
User ID: 0701364 Feb 21st 5:32 PM
Flayed Man, you might be right but remember that Dorne successfully resisted Aegon the Dragon because of its guerilla tactics. The Martells could help Dany to fight others.

Ser Gary, there's the problem of Jon's oath...And I say welcome back, my good knight :)

There were many good Targaryens as well as bad ones. But what's not to say that Dany can take the throne?

Renly is dead. Stannis is doomed. Balon Greyjoy will fall soon. Robb Stark more likely will die. The mad little kinglet Joffrey is the other one left. Dany can do it.

Flayed Man
User ID: 9147853 Feb 21st 7:59 PM
Well Eric, if i profread what I wrote, then it would be more readable but i just don't do it. and yes english is my second language so try to understand and accept as what I am please. I will be greatful :^).

and thank you for sharing my views. I am very glad that you hate that targayen bitch. and to tell you all I hate dany with passion. How much I hate that bitch? well i hate her so much that if I was a character in the story I would have become a knife (in layman's term, assassin)for Robert and assassinate that arrogant bitch.

Moreta....you are forgetting one fact...there is always politcs involved. Martells helping dany is like helping a demon to accend the world. yes they would help her but then to control her as a puppet ruler. (which means that Martells can raise the tax trade rules, ect)

Also remaining lords who remins true loyal to baratheons (the lords who joined robert at his war), Arryns who was first to raise arms (all of his lords), all the tully and most of lords and starks would never bow down to that arrogant dragon slut!! they would start another war of rebels than to bow down. they would rather chose genocide than to bow down to a "dragon tyrant".

Also fellow northern lords will rip Jorah mormont apart at the first sight, remember he put shit on the north's reputation so even bolton would love to flay him.

So dany will NEVER make a good candidate, come on i say it is time for new dynasty targatyens are old and no one like Aegon to shit the second to rule. oh yea by the way speaking of climate teh long winter will arrive soon and it is time for north lords to win.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Feb 21st 8:06 PM
Hrm ... just a note. I am not squeamish about language to any degree. However, in _general_, this board has been amazingly polite in its dialouge. And, frankly, I wouldn't mind it stay that way.

This isn't an attempt at censorship. If you feel colorful language is integral to your posting, by all means -- it won't get removed. But I thought I'd note that the general tenor of the board has been such that use of language has not been a concern because it's always been moderated and ,since no one so far has complained or seemed driven to try to change things, I imagine that it's appreciated by more than just myself.

Flayed Man
User ID: 9147853 Feb 21st 8:23 PM
Mah bad! still whatever i said can't be taken back but i know what u mean. but anyways whose side you on? old arrogant targayen or candidates? or one of your own cadidates?

Generic Eric
User ID: 8339223 Feb 21st 9:23 PM
Sorry Flayed, I didn't mean anything bad by my question, I was just wondering--I accept you the way you are just fine. Hell, I only speak english, thats only one language. I admire people who can speak more than one!

I'm glad someone else does not like Dany...For a while, I thought I was the only one.

Street Prophet
User ID: 2107894 Feb 22nd 0:04 AM
Hey, hey, Dany is da' bomb! Don't you be dissin' my main woman Queen o' Dragons. She's harsh, but she's fair. She also shows mercy to those around her. She's just confident, not too much self-doubt going on through her head. She'll need that to take back Westeros. Sorry, sorry, I'm getting off-topic.

Maeglin
User ID: 0707654 Feb 22nd 2:07 AM
Count me in with the Dany haters. Street Prophet: how exactly is Dany merciful? There is only one act of mercy that she does in the entire book (saving Mirri Maz Duur and co)I hope she either changes her attitude or gets her head mounted on a nice long spike (read my Dany-The Bitch post for further details and reasons why)

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 22nd 3:54 AM
Well we have already heard about Maeglin's reasons to hate Dany. What about you other Dany-haters? Incidentially, do you really like any other female character?

As to Starks, Lannisters and Arryns, they are much older news than Targaryens. If we'd go for something new... Well, I guess Tyrells would be it...

Snake
User ID: 1404584 Feb 22nd 8:30 AM
I'd like for Dany to win back the Westeros. If Robb can become her friend then Dany would no doubt help him in his cause and possibly burn the Lannisters and Tyrells in the process. Remember the Field of Fire.

Also I think she would make a good queen. She was good to her handmaids. She kept her people with her, even the old and sick. She tried to save some of the sheep people from rape and such. Even after she knew what Viserys was like, weak and such, she wanted him to be O.K. Even after his cruelty to her she did not wish him dead although she knew he would never win back the Seven Kingdoms. I think she's got terrific potential. Plus, she's severe with her enemies and I like that. Once she learns of the real reasons for the rise against her father her attitude will change a little towards Starks and Baratheons. However, Lannister treason was done in a sneaky and not honorable way. A lot harder to forgive and they should be punished for it.

Generic Eric
User ID: 8339223 Feb 22nd 9:11 AM
First of all, let me say I love female characters just as much as male ones. Arya is my fav character in aSoIaF behind Jon, while Cateyln prob. ranks #3 or so. That said, Dany annoys the crap out of me.

In my opinion, she is WAY to full of herself. She thinks too much of her "blood of the dragon" and the fact that she was Drogo's mate, she has three dragons, etc, etc. She went from being a whinning little snot nose to an over-confident bitch in no time.

I really think she is in for a shock if she thinks she has what it takes to rule Westeros.

Oh well, I'm not Martin, so I can't write his book for him. We'll see what happens...

Flayed Man
User ID: 9147853 Feb 22nd 10:18 AM
Three cheers for Maeglin! thank you for sharing our views.

Um labor....
Just we hate dany means, makes us sexist...i know you don't think us that way but i will make myself clear anyway.

I LOVE lady mormonts about "gettin mace while they should get dolls on their age", I LOVE bree, yeah I love way she kicked Loras's rear and other 100 male knights in the tournament and her ability as a knight. Also Arya althought young, she does see reality (on her own weird way) and I admire that. Also Osha is Cool.

But I hate Asha, because she is too arrogant and it is only matter of time her people fall, but Dany her arrogance about her being "dragon blood" tops all. Mr martin told us that dany in not immune to fire (i dunno how she stay unburnt) but she earned Kahl's people by deception and lies, also second coming of dragon dynasty mean second coming of devil so old lords who fought for Robert's side will not love this and they will fight to their last man then bent their knees to arrogant "queen".

And Oh yes i see a fire on her eyes. fire for revenge. she refers Ned as "robert's dog" and other lords who followed them as well. and she hates them for sending the assassin, and what they done to her old bro and other family members. so sooner she gains rule the "hunt" will begin and lords know what they done and they will be hunted so i doubt dany will control whole kingdom.

As I said Targayen is yesterday's news I want new dynasty it is other family's era to control the kingdom.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Feb 22nd 11:50 AM
Well, Dany needs a Clue Stick, insofar as her view on her glorified view of her brother and father, certainly.

If she would retreat into denial when getting a second opinion on them, I too would wonder if she really would be fit for a Queen - you have to face realities if you would be considered fit. Now, I'm still of a mind that she will not maintain that glory picture of her family.

Dany has displayed both ruthlessness and mercy; both abilities that would aid her in ruling Westeros, if properly done - in that she minds me a fair bit of Tyrion.

And yes, I suppose she is arrogant, but I personally don't mind that so much, not with her. :o)

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Feb 22nd 12:48 PM
Same here, as far as Dany's view of prominent events and figures in the past and in her own family. I believe it's moderately unfair to judge her as a queen by what she thinks of Ned Stark and such. Her whole life was spent with Viserys ranting and raving about Robert's treachery. Jorah Mormont, with his own distaste for Ned, doesn't help that either.

I think, once she learns the reality of what happened to lead up to Robert's rebellion, she'll assimilate some of that and understand that her family wasn't all peachy-keen.

Certainly, she's almost surely going to reconsider her opinion of Barristan Selmy.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 22nd 12:55 PM
All that Dany ever had was the sense of her heritage and her ancestral pride. She didn't have a loving family, a snug castle and a modicum of power.
All she had was a wretch of a brother, who hated and abused her, humilation of being essentially a beggar and fear of assassination instilled by the same brother. And the tales of proud heritage. IMHO, it shouldn't be surprising that she clang to them. She had nothing else.

I agree with KAH that Dany's real test will be reaction to learning the truth about her immediate family and about the war which ovethrew it.

As to Dany's overconfidence as Drogo's wife... or her overconfidence generally - she was and is in very difficult circumstances, where a weaker person, which has little confidence in him/herself might simply fold and die. I don't see how Dany is more overconfident than Robb, for instance.

Ami
User ID: 2742064 Feb 22nd 1:35 PM
Babe
In
Total
Control of
Herself

Go, Dany, go!!

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Feb 22nd 2:49 PM
She's my favorite character. After all the crap she put up with from her abusive brother, and getting married to a barbarian, she retained her sense of self and became a much stronger person. For a 15 year old girl, that's quite a feat. She seems to have gained a measure of self-possession that I think will help her when she has to deal with the complexity of politics in Westeros and the true facts behind the War of the Usurper.

I think one of the most important things that has happened to her is meeting with Selmy. Selmy knows first hand about the War and the conduct of Ned Stark before and during it. He also was an eyewitness to Ned Stark resigning as Hand rather than be a part of the attempted assassination.

I don't think that's a coincidence. His role will be to give Danaerys a true picture of the Starks, a prerequisite to any potential alliance between the two houses. Without Selmy, she'd hate the Starks as much as the rest of them.

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Flayed Man User ID: 9147853	Feb 21st 3:58 PM Well we have heard what a shitty Aegon the dragon did, and how long they have ruled ect. but i believe it is time for new dynasty. I feel that targayens are yesterday's news. I believe it is new house to become a king. These houses are my next candidate for next true and long dynasty 1) Starks 2) Martells 3) remaining of Baratheons 4)Lannisters 5) Tyrells to me even though dany have dragons and have remaining of khal's army, i don't think she can be next dynasty. she is too weak and even with help of martell i feel that martells will use her as puppet. come on now we seen and heard enough about targayens now it is time for the new rule.
Generic Eric User ID: 8339223	Feb 21st 4:21 PM I never liked Dany in the first place... But I don't feel like getting into that on this thread! Flayed Man, I take it you don't speak english well? --Thats NOT a criticism, just wondering! 8-)
I, Claudius User ID: 0505634	Feb 21st 4:34 PM Interesting question, Flayed, let's study each case: 1.Starks: they melt once they cross the Neck. In other words, the Starks are too "northern", they wouldn't like to be kings of Westeros, even if they could (they can't). 2.Martells: the same problem that we have with the Starks, their culture is diferent from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, they don't seem to be willing to take the power in KL. At the most, they could declare Dorne independent (as Robb did with the North) and let the others to quarrel among themselves. 3.Remaining Baratheons: is Joff a Baratheon?. We know that he is not but, legally, he is the rightfull heir to the throne. Stannis is too weak now, and he will be a terrible king. 4.Lannisters: with Joff they don't need anybody else. The problem is that Joff doesn't seem a very good candidate to beguin a long dynasty. Maybe Tommen. 5.Tyrells: of course, why not? perhaps one of these days the Lannisters will learn that the rose is a beautifull flower that has thorns. There is something that I don't remember well: is Dany barren after what happened with her son?. If so, the Targaryen Restoration could be short lived.
Ser Gary User ID: 1502094	Feb 21st 5:09 PM Unless, of course, Jon stands up to be counted as a true Targaryen heir.
Moreta User ID: 0701364	Feb 21st 5:32 PM Flayed Man, you might be right but remember that Dorne successfully resisted Aegon the Dragon because of its guerilla tactics. The Martells could help Dany to fight others. Ser Gary, there's the problem of Jon's oath...And I say welcome back, my good knight :) There were many good Targaryens as well as bad ones. But what's not to say that Dany can take the throne? Renly is dead. Stannis is doomed. Balon Greyjoy will fall soon. Robb Stark more likely will die. The mad little kinglet Joffrey is the other one left. Dany can do it.
Flayed Man User ID: 9147853	Feb 21st 7:59 PM Well Eric, if i profread what I wrote, then it would be more readable but i just don't do it. and yes english is my second language so try to understand and accept as what I am please. I will be greatful :^). and thank you for sharing my views. I am very glad that you hate that targayen bitch. and to tell you all I hate dany with passion. How much I hate that bitch? well i hate her so much that if I was a character in the story I would have become a knife (in layman's term, assassin)for Robert and assassinate that arrogant bitch. Moreta....you are forgetting one fact...there is always politcs involved. Martells helping dany is like helping a demon to accend the world. yes they would help her but then to control her as a puppet ruler. (which means that Martells can raise the tax trade rules, ect) Also remaining lords who remins true loyal to baratheons (the lords who joined robert at his war), Arryns who was first to raise arms (all of his lords), all the tully and most of lords and starks would never bow down to that arrogant dragon slut!! they would start another war of rebels than to bow down. they would rather chose genocide than to bow down to a "dragon tyrant". Also fellow northern lords will rip Jorah mormont apart at the first sight, remember he put shit on the north's reputation so even bolton would love to flay him. So dany will NEVER make a good candidate, come on i say it is time for new dynasty targatyens are old and no one like Aegon to shit the second to rule. oh yea by the way speaking of climate teh long winter will arrive soon and it is time for north lords to win.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Feb 21st 8:06 PM Hrm ... just a note. I am not squeamish about language to any degree. However, in _general_, this board has been amazingly polite in its dialouge. And, frankly, I wouldn't mind it stay that way. This isn't an attempt at censorship. If you feel colorful language is integral to your posting, by all means -- it won't get removed. But I thought I'd note that the general tenor of the board has been such that use of language has not been a concern because it's always been moderated and ,since no one so far has complained or seemed driven to try to change things, I imagine that it's appreciated by more than just myself.
Flayed Man User ID: 9147853	Feb 21st 8:23 PM Mah bad! still whatever i said can't be taken back but i know what u mean. but anyways whose side you on? old arrogant targayen or candidates? or one of your own cadidates?
Generic Eric User ID: 8339223	Feb 21st 9:23 PM Sorry Flayed, I didn't mean anything bad by my question, I was just wondering--I accept you the way you are just fine. Hell, I only speak english, thats only one language. I admire people who can speak more than one! I'm glad someone else does not like Dany...For a while, I thought I was the only one.
Street Prophet User ID: 2107894	Feb 22nd 0:04 AM Hey, hey, Dany is da' bomb! Don't you be dissin' my main woman Queen o' Dragons. She's harsh, but she's fair. She also shows mercy to those around her. She's just confident, not too much self-doubt going on through her head. She'll need that to take back Westeros. Sorry, sorry, I'm getting off-topic.
Maeglin User ID: 0707654	Feb 22nd 2:07 AM Count me in with the Dany haters. Street Prophet: how exactly is Dany merciful? There is only one act of mercy that she does in the entire book (saving Mirri Maz Duur and co)I hope she either changes her attitude or gets her head mounted on a nice long spike (read my Dany-The Bitch post for further details and reasons why)
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 22nd 3:54 AM Well we have already heard about Maeglin's reasons to hate Dany. What about you other Dany-haters? Incidentially, do you really like any other female character? As to Starks, Lannisters and Arryns, they are much older news than Targaryens. If we'd go for something new... Well, I guess Tyrells would be it...
Snake User ID: 1404584	Feb 22nd 8:30 AM I'd like for Dany to win back the Westeros. If Robb can become her friend then Dany would no doubt help him in his cause and possibly burn the Lannisters and Tyrells in the process. Remember the Field of Fire. Also I think she would make a good queen. She was good to her handmaids. She kept her people with her, even the old and sick. She tried to save some of the sheep people from rape and such. Even after she knew what Viserys was like, weak and such, she wanted him to be O.K. Even after his cruelty to her she did not wish him dead although she knew he would never win back the Seven Kingdoms. I think she's got terrific potential. Plus, she's severe with her enemies and I like that. Once she learns of the real reasons for the rise against her father her attitude will change a little towards Starks and Baratheons. However, Lannister treason was done in a sneaky and not honorable way. A lot harder to forgive and they should be punished for it.
Generic Eric User ID: 8339223	Feb 22nd 9:11 AM First of all, let me say I love female characters just as much as male ones. Arya is my fav character in aSoIaF behind Jon, while Cateyln prob. ranks #3 or so. That said, Dany annoys the crap out of me. In my opinion, she is WAY to full of herself. She thinks too much of her "blood of the dragon" and the fact that she was Drogo's mate, she has three dragons, etc, etc. She went from being a whinning little snot nose to an over-confident bitch in no time. I really think she is in for a shock if she thinks she has what it takes to rule Westeros. Oh well, I'm not Martin, so I can't write his book for him. We'll see what happens...
Flayed Man User ID: 9147853	Feb 22nd 10:18 AM Three cheers for Maeglin! thank you for sharing our views. Um labor.... Just we hate dany means, makes us sexist...i know you don't think us that way but i will make myself clear anyway. I LOVE lady mormonts about "gettin mace while they should get dolls on their age", I LOVE bree, yeah I love way she kicked Loras's rear and other 100 male knights in the tournament and her ability as a knight. Also Arya althought young, she does see reality (on her own weird way) and I admire that. Also Osha is Cool. But I hate Asha, because she is too arrogant and it is only matter of time her people fall, but Dany her arrogance about her being "dragon blood" tops all. Mr martin told us that dany in not immune to fire (i dunno how she stay unburnt) but she earned Kahl's people by deception and lies, also second coming of dragon dynasty mean second coming of devil so old lords who fought for Robert's side will not love this and they will fight to their last man then bent their knees to arrogant "queen". And Oh yes i see a fire on her eyes. fire for revenge. she refers Ned as "robert's dog" and other lords who followed them as well. and she hates them for sending the assassin, and what they done to her old bro and other family members. so sooner she gains rule the "hunt" will begin and lords know what they done and they will be hunted so i doubt dany will control whole kingdom. As I said Targayen is yesterday's news I want new dynasty it is other family's era to control the kingdom.
KAH User ID: 0541004	Feb 22nd 11:50 AM Well, Dany needs a Clue Stick, insofar as her view on her glorified view of her brother and father, certainly. If she would retreat into denial when getting a second opinion on them, I too would wonder if she really would be fit for a Queen - you have to face realities if you would be considered fit. Now, I'm still of a mind that she will not maintain that glory picture of her family. Dany has displayed both ruthlessness and mercy; both abilities that would aid her in ruling Westeros, if properly done - in that she minds me a fair bit of Tyrion. And yes, I suppose she is arrogant, but I personally don't mind that so much, not with her. :o)
Ran User ID: 0867924	Feb 22nd 12:48 PM Same here, as far as Dany's view of prominent events and figures in the past and in her own family. I believe it's moderately unfair to judge her as a queen by what she thinks of Ned Stark and such. Her whole life was spent with Viserys ranting and raving about Robert's treachery. Jorah Mormont, with his own distaste for Ned, doesn't help that either. I think, once she learns the reality of what happened to lead up to Robert's rebellion, she'll assimilate some of that and understand that her family wasn't all peachy-keen. Certainly, she's almost surely going to reconsider her opinion of Barristan Selmy.
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 22nd 12:55 PM All that Dany ever had was the sense of her heritage and her ancestral pride. She didn't have a loving family, a snug castle and a modicum of power. All she had was a wretch of a brother, who hated and abused her, humilation of being essentially a beggar and fear of assassination instilled by the same brother. And the tales of proud heritage. IMHO, it shouldn't be surprising that she clang to them. She had nothing else. I agree with KAH that Dany's real test will be reaction to learning the truth about her immediate family and about the war which ovethrew it. As to Dany's overconfidence as Drogo's wife... or her overconfidence generally - she was and is in very difficult circumstances, where a weaker person, which has little confidence in him/herself might simply fold and die. I don't see how Dany is more overconfident than Robb, for instance.
Ami User ID: 2742064	Feb 22nd 1:35 PM Babe In Total Control of Herself Go, Dany, go!!
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Feb 22nd 2:49 PM She's my favorite character. After all the crap she put up with from her abusive brother, and getting married to a barbarian, she retained her sense of self and became a much stronger person. For a 15 year old girl, that's quite a feat. She seems to have gained a measure of self-possession that I think will help her when she has to deal with the complexity of politics in Westeros and the true facts behind the War of the Usurper. I think one of the most important things that has happened to her is meeting with Selmy. Selmy knows first hand about the War and the conduct of Ned Stark before and during it. He also was an eyewitness to Ned Stark resigning as Hand rather than be a part of the attempted assassination. I don't think that's a coincidence. His role will be to give Danaerys a true picture of the Starks, a prerequisite to any potential alliance between the two houses. Without Selmy, she'd hate the Starks as much as the rest of them.