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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Clash of Kings II / Will Arya rule?

Next 20 Messages

Rughead
User ID: 0665994 Feb 29th 9:10 PM
Arya, Dany and Jon are my favorite characters. They are each undergoing a metamorphosis in alien realms. Each seems to have a significant destiny.

I cannot hold 10 year-old Arya morally responsible for her survival tactics, including the murder at the gate - it was kill or be killed (ultimately). She has been through a holocaust, not just brutal treatment.

Is Arya's destiny to be the dominant Stark?

Generic Eric
User ID: 8339223 Feb 29th 9:35 PM
Well Rughead, I can't say I'd be dissapointed if that were the case. I have a hunch, however, that thats not what Martin has in mind for Arya.

IMHO, from the hints Arya's been droppin' us throughout ASOIAF, she does not seem like the type who would want the responsibility of rule or power--granted, shes only 10--I know that she is young. But I see her more as a rouge-type later on down the line.

rhaegar
User ID: 0547294 Feb 29th 10:06 PM
From what i have gotten from the books, it seems to me that arya will have a future as a rougeish type person that saves the day for her brother (most likely jon, but could be Rob) and then just stays in the shadows making sure that nothing goes wrong. The type that only wants to make sure who she wants is in power, but never herself. Sort of like Tiberius to Drusus, except that Drusus dies and Tiberius is forced to take his place on the throne, no matter how much he just wants to campaign in Germany, not rule the empire.

Swithin
User ID: 0289604 Mar 1st 4:55 AM
I was so confused - it's rogue, isn't it?

About Arya - well, she is falling for the last of the Baratheons (not counting Edric Storm). I've a feeling that a Houseless marriage between two nobles sounds like an Arya type thing...

Thorfinn
User ID: 9906923 Mar 1st 10:35 AM
I think she will be taught by the faceless and that will be her marriage for awhile. But, when she hears about Jon's troubles with the OTHERS she leaves and goes to her only friend, who happens to be a brother, to give aid in any way she can. I think her journey to Jon will be troubling and full of suprises but, finds that life near her brother most rewarding even though it is in dire circumstances. So yes a rouge but, one that even though she has lost her will find it again (as well as Nymeria). Oh, then she marries a wildling and lives near Jons castle North of the Wall.

Ser Benjen
User ID: 9844073 Mar 1st 11:16 AM
I think Arya will go to the Free cities for the five year break. She will be taught by the faceless men and become a ROGUE type (rouge is a kind of cosmetic).

I think she, in order to gain full acceptance as a faceless one, will need to confront a past enemy and kill them. For this she will return to Westeros and learn of the plight in the North. She will reurn there and find Jon and eventually Bran.

I could definitly see her with Gendry or Edric in the end. Sort of like bringing a close to Lyanna and Roberts broken betrothal (which ended up breaking the Seven kingdoms for awhile). I think Bran will be the "Head Stark" in the end. Most all of the surviving Northern Lords would recognize him and bringing Benjen and a whole bunch of the children of the forest couldn't hurt. Jon will have duties elsewhere.

Mystic William
User ID: 8562343 Mar 1st 2:11 PM
Mark ye these words: There shall be cataclysms in the end: A break at the Wall, and perhaps the Neck, engineered by the Children, leaving Westeros in pieces. The Starks and the Old Gods shall rule in the lands about Winterfell. The Targaryens shall rule the South. And Arya? She shall rule the Faceless Men.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Mar 1st 2:14 PM
Really going out on a limb there, O Mystic One. :-).

Hmm. I take back my sarcastic comment. Engineered by the _Children_? That is going out on a limb. Are you saying that the lands will physically separate?

Mystic William
User ID: 8562343 Mar 2nd 11:26 AM
Indeed, Jeff. As Westeros was separated from the mainland in ages past. Thus will the tide of Others and their wights be stemmed.

Or did you think GRRM planted that bit of early history to no purpose?

Swithin
User ID: 0289604 Mar 3rd 5:33 PM
Huh... definitely a good thought. I wonder if it could happen, but who do you think would act as Westeros's benefactor?

Rhaegar
User ID: 0547294 Mar 3rd 6:36 PM
Westero's benefactor??? Doon't know, maybe Jon or Benjen, or Mance Rayder/ I think it will be Dany's dragons, the wildings, Rob and the north, and Jon and the nights watch vs the others amd other assorted beings, with a kind of replay of the field of fire(love it......would give anything to see the poetry in motion as those dragons swept down and smashed the reaches armies....aaaahhhhhh)
for the start, then the humans vs the remaining others, the humans win but lose minimum two major characters to very, very heoric sword swinging deaths, and another saved by the hound when he gives his life to protect his new friends-the starks.
Arya and Edric marry and rule Winerfell with Bran as the Maester and Dany/Jon Rule the South(now six kingdoms, Iron Islands under either Theon or Asha trading independence for peace and safety from dragons)

Rhaegar
User ID: 0547294 Mar 3rd 6:40 PM
i meant that the iron islands would trade the reach, ect for independence and safety from dragons, sorry

Swithin
User ID: 0289604 Mar 3rd 9:23 PM
I meant which sentient force could ever 'part the plains'. Nobody we've met has that kind of control.

Rhaegar
User ID: 0547294 Mar 4th 3:51 PM
he has mentioned to much history)best parts of the book) for them not to come into play, and his disregard for the seven from stannis's point of view, then his loss(and the loss of the lord of light) seem to point to no godly interference(who would want that anyway, its been too many books already)

Flayed Man
User ID: 9147853 Mar 5th 12:05 PM
Um to me instead of a ruling figure I see her as a supporting figure. instead of she becoming lady of some land, i think she either becomes a assassin (later join jaquen)? or like a maege mormont or bree. also the "iron coin" that signifies something amongst faceless ones, and maybe arya is holding "future membership coin" where assassins will notice and accept her in future (if she goes there)?

Padraig
User ID: 0373644 Mar 5th 3:47 PM
Well IIRC the Children are supposed to have drowned the connection that Dorne had with the mainland thousands of years ago, as Mystic William suggested. So they could repeat the feat. Interesting idea. Of course it could hinder as much as help the north.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Mar 5th 4:25 PM
To clarify Padraig's point, Westeros was once connected to the eastern continent by the Broken Arm (not, at the time, broken.) It was the children who shattered it, trying to end the flow of First Men into the continent.

I should think that breaking Westeros in half would be, more or less, conceeding an inability to win. You're more or less leaving the North for the Others and hoping they won't cross south. Which, of course, they will -- if they gather power for a Long Night, soon enough the water between the North and the South will be frozen and they can cross on the ice.

Mystic William
User ID: 8562343 Mar 6th 0:36 AM
Good point, Ran: Simple separation achieves little.

Until more is revealed about the Others, one cannot guess the full nature of the cataclysm that will be required. Still, magic strengthens in the land, and the Children shall be driven to take extreme measures before the End.

'Tis well that we know not what those measures may be. Yet, verily, in the final battles the very Earth shall be transformed.

Aaron
User ID: 0115944 Mar 7th 12:19 PM
Bran a maester? Bran has an important role to play but I doubt it to be maester of Winterfell.

And by the end of the book I expect Arya to hurt people around her more then help. She's a ruthless and dangerous child as exposed when she killed Weese in the second book. Granted Weese was nobodys sweetheart but still...

Padraig
User ID: 0317884 Mar 7th 1:43 PM
Aaron, well you could be right. I find Arya's future very hard to guess. Arya joining the Faceless guild is a very popular idea but i'm not sure I see the significance of Arya having the ability to assassinate anyone she wants to. Useful yes, but its not something the Starks are supposed to rely on. Maybe her future will be very gray though. She may take Robb's place but who's going to give her that chance if Robb is dead? Should be interesting whatever it is anyhow.

Next 20 Messages

Rughead User ID: 0665994	Feb 29th 9:10 PM Arya, Dany and Jon are my favorite characters. They are each undergoing a metamorphosis in alien realms. Each seems to have a significant destiny. I cannot hold 10 year-old Arya morally responsible for her survival tactics, including the murder at the gate - it was kill or be killed (ultimately). She has been through a holocaust, not just brutal treatment. Is Arya's destiny to be the dominant Stark?
Generic Eric User ID: 8339223	Feb 29th 9:35 PM Well Rughead, I can't say I'd be dissapointed if that were the case. I have a hunch, however, that thats not what Martin has in mind for Arya. IMHO, from the hints Arya's been droppin' us throughout ASOIAF, she does not seem like the type who would want the responsibility of rule or power--granted, shes only 10--I know that she is young. But I see her more as a rouge-type later on down the line.
rhaegar User ID: 0547294	Feb 29th 10:06 PM From what i have gotten from the books, it seems to me that arya will have a future as a rougeish type person that saves the day for her brother (most likely jon, but could be Rob) and then just stays in the shadows making sure that nothing goes wrong. The type that only wants to make sure who she wants is in power, but never herself. Sort of like Tiberius to Drusus, except that Drusus dies and Tiberius is forced to take his place on the throne, no matter how much he just wants to campaign in Germany, not rule the empire.
Swithin User ID: 0289604	Mar 1st 4:55 AM I was so confused - it's rogue, isn't it? About Arya - well, she is falling for the last of the Baratheons (not counting Edric Storm). I've a feeling that a Houseless marriage between two nobles sounds like an Arya type thing...
Thorfinn User ID: 9906923	Mar 1st 10:35 AM I think she will be taught by the faceless and that will be her marriage for awhile. But, when she hears about Jon's troubles with the OTHERS she leaves and goes to her only friend, who happens to be a brother, to give aid in any way she can. I think her journey to Jon will be troubling and full of suprises but, finds that life near her brother most rewarding even though it is in dire circumstances. So yes a rouge but, one that even though she has lost her will find it again (as well as Nymeria). Oh, then she marries a wildling and lives near Jons castle North of the Wall.
Ser Benjen User ID: 9844073	Mar 1st 11:16 AM I think Arya will go to the Free cities for the five year break. She will be taught by the faceless men and become a ROGUE type (rouge is a kind of cosmetic). I think she, in order to gain full acceptance as a faceless one, will need to confront a past enemy and kill them. For this she will return to Westeros and learn of the plight in the North. She will reurn there and find Jon and eventually Bran. I could definitly see her with Gendry or Edric in the end. Sort of like bringing a close to Lyanna and Roberts broken betrothal (which ended up breaking the Seven kingdoms for awhile). I think Bran will be the "Head Stark" in the end. Most all of the surviving Northern Lords would recognize him and bringing Benjen and a whole bunch of the children of the forest couldn't hurt. Jon will have duties elsewhere.
Mystic William User ID: 8562343	Mar 1st 2:11 PM Mark ye these words: There shall be cataclysms in the end: A break at the Wall, and perhaps the Neck, engineered by the Children, leaving Westeros in pieces. The Starks and the Old Gods shall rule in the lands about Winterfell. The Targaryens shall rule the South. And Arya? She shall rule the Faceless Men.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Mar 1st 2:14 PM Really going out on a limb there, O Mystic One. :-). Hmm. I take back my sarcastic comment. Engineered by the _Children_? That is going out on a limb. Are you saying that the lands will physically separate?
Mystic William User ID: 8562343	Mar 2nd 11:26 AM Indeed, Jeff. As Westeros was separated from the mainland in ages past. Thus will the tide of Others and their wights be stemmed. Or did you think GRRM planted that bit of early history to no purpose?
Swithin User ID: 0289604	Mar 3rd 5:33 PM Huh... definitely a good thought. I wonder if it could happen, but who do you think would act as Westeros's benefactor?
Rhaegar User ID: 0547294	Mar 3rd 6:36 PM Westero's benefactor??? Doon't know, maybe Jon or Benjen, or Mance Rayder/ I think it will be Dany's dragons, the wildings, Rob and the north, and Jon and the nights watch vs the others amd other assorted beings, with a kind of replay of the field of fire(love it......would give anything to see the poetry in motion as those dragons swept down and smashed the reaches armies....aaaahhhhhh) for the start, then the humans vs the remaining others, the humans win but lose minimum two major characters to very, very heoric sword swinging deaths, and another saved by the hound when he gives his life to protect his new friends-the starks. Arya and Edric marry and rule Winerfell with Bran as the Maester and Dany/Jon Rule the South(now six kingdoms, Iron Islands under either Theon or Asha trading independence for peace and safety from dragons)
Rhaegar User ID: 0547294	Mar 3rd 6:40 PM i meant that the iron islands would trade the reach, ect for independence and safety from dragons, sorry
Swithin User ID: 0289604	Mar 3rd 9:23 PM I meant which sentient force could ever 'part the plains'. Nobody we've met has that kind of control.
Rhaegar User ID: 0547294	Mar 4th 3:51 PM he has mentioned to much history)best parts of the book) for them not to come into play, and his disregard for the seven from stannis's point of view, then his loss(and the loss of the lord of light) seem to point to no godly interference(who would want that anyway, its been too many books already)
Flayed Man User ID: 9147853	Mar 5th 12:05 PM Um to me instead of a ruling figure I see her as a supporting figure. instead of she becoming lady of some land, i think she either becomes a assassin (later join jaquen)? or like a maege mormont or bree. also the "iron coin" that signifies something amongst faceless ones, and maybe arya is holding "future membership coin" where assassins will notice and accept her in future (if she goes there)?
Padraig User ID: 0373644	Mar 5th 3:47 PM Well IIRC the Children are supposed to have drowned the connection that Dorne had with the mainland thousands of years ago, as Mystic William suggested. So they could repeat the feat. Interesting idea. Of course it could hinder as much as help the north.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Mar 5th 4:25 PM To clarify Padraig's point, Westeros was once connected to the eastern continent by the Broken Arm (not, at the time, broken.) It was the children who shattered it, trying to end the flow of First Men into the continent. I should think that breaking Westeros in half would be, more or less, conceeding an inability to win. You're more or less leaving the North for the Others and hoping they won't cross south. Which, of course, they will -- if they gather power for a Long Night, soon enough the water between the North and the South will be frozen and they can cross on the ice.
Mystic William User ID: 8562343	Mar 6th 0:36 AM Good point, Ran: Simple separation achieves little. Until more is revealed about the Others, one cannot guess the full nature of the cataclysm that will be required. Still, magic strengthens in the land, and the Children shall be driven to take extreme measures before the End. 'Tis well that we know not what those measures may be. Yet, verily, in the final battles the very Earth shall be transformed.
Aaron User ID: 0115944	Mar 7th 12:19 PM Bran a maester? Bran has an important role to play but I doubt it to be maester of Winterfell. And by the end of the book I expect Arya to hurt people around her more then help. She's a ruthless and dangerous child as exposed when she killed Weese in the second book. Granted Weese was nobodys sweetheart but still...
Padraig User ID: 0317884	Mar 7th 1:43 PM Aaron, well you could be right. I find Arya's future very hard to guess. Arya joining the Faceless guild is a very popular idea but i'm not sure I see the significance of Arya having the ability to assassinate anyone she wants to. Useful yes, but its not something the Starks are supposed to rely on. Maybe her future will be very gray though. She may take Robb's place but who's going to give her that chance if Robb is dead? Should be interesting whatever it is anyhow.