A mirror of the eeesite "A Song of Ice and Fire"

This is a mirror of the now defunct eesite ASOIAF webboard.

The discussions for G.R.R. Martin's awesome series "A Song of Ice and Fire" are now being held at: Current ASoIaF Webboard

You cannot post new messages to this board. Go to the Current ASoIaF Webboard for the most current discussions.

A Song of Ice and Fire/ The Hedge Knight / Egg-who is he?

Vanryker
User ID: 1300074 Feb 4th 10:14 AM
I am still reading the hedge knight. Not quite finished yet. But I have a theory of who Egg is.
I don't think he is just some orphan from flea bottom like Dunk thinks he is. Why all the knowledge on the high born knights. I think he comes from nobility and has disguised himself by shaving his head. Why the reluctance to go to the castle. Maybe his father a high lord is there? What do think? Could be totally wrong as I have not finished it. Just started it last night. If completely wrong just say so. Don't ruin the end for me.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Feb 4th 11:37 AM
You're on the right track, Vanryker. Enjoy the story. It's a good one. :)

Vanryker
User ID: 1300074 Feb 7th 9:29 AM
Thanks Ran, yup I was right on track and what a terrific short story. I sure hope GRRM continues on with his story of Egg & Dunk. I loved it, highly recommended while waiting for his next novel.

MAD-ness
User ID: 3612744 May 31st 4:55 PM
It sounds like you finished it so I will not worry, much, about spoilers.

It took me a while to piece together the Targaryen blood line from Dany up through Daeron (Baelor's and Maekar's father, who brought Dorne into the Seven Kingdoms). Anyways, it is very fascinating. Egg ends up being Aegon the Unlikely, the 4th son of a 4th son. This is mentioned in a Game of Thrones when discussing Maester Aemon, of the Night's Watch. He was Egg's brother, the one who was sent off the Citadel. I believe he was the third son, younger than Daeron and Aerion, respectively, but older than Aegon. If you check out the index in A Game of Thrones, you see that Aegon had a very long rule, in comparison to most of the other recent Targaryens.

I rate Egg up there with Tyrion and Arya as the top characters that Martin has created in the Song of Ice and Fire. Martin has stated that he might work on stories set before the Song of Ice and Fire, once he finishes the current double trilogy, but that if he did they would not be set during the War of the Usurper, but would be set after the Hedge Knight and would follow Dunk and Aegon.

I keep meaning to review ALL of the battle and tourney scenes in aGoT and aCoK to see if Dunk's standard is mentioned anywhere. I know that the Green Apple Fossoways are mentioned. Of course, Ser Duncan the Tall may have changed his standard at some point, but I doubt it, since Egg helped choose it, Baelor died defending its honor (as an extension of defending Dunk) and the puppet girl painted it. What I mean to say is, did Dunk start a noble line? We know Maekar offered him land when trying to convince him to take Egg as a squire. If Dunk was still alive at the time that Aegon the Unlikely took the throne, he would likely be a member of the court, perhaps even a member of the King's Gaurd. Anyways, we will have to wait for those stories, if they are ever written, to find out the details, but has anyone already searched the standards discussed in A Song of Ice and Fire to see if something matching the description of Dunk's is mentioned?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 31st 5:21 PM
Heh, yeah, I suppose one might say I've searched the banners in the books. ;) Dunk's arms appear nowhere.

GRRM has said that he'd leave it a question for the Dunk & Egg stories that he hopes to write some day, or perhaps "later volumes" of _A Song of Ice and Fire_. This is in October '98.

In January '99, he says, 'Oh, maybe,' when someone asks if a descendant of Dunk's appears in ASoIaF.

Essentially, I think we'll see a descendant of Dunk's. In fact, I think we already have -- I'm strongly of the opinion that Petyr Baelish is Duncan's grandson. Of course, the arms would have to change at some point, and your points for why Dunk wouldn't do this are good.

It's not impossible that Dunk has no gentle or nobleborn descendants, but that some commoner we've stumbled across could be it. The obvious choice for this eventuality would be Hodor.

BTW, Maekar didn't offer him land. Just a position as a member of Maekar's household.

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 Jun 1st 9:45 AM
Dunchn and the Egg Mouser - I want to see them travel to the far east and bed drunken wenches, and drink kegs of iced wine that bring a "coolth" to their throats, and foil traitors and charlatans, and discover ancient histories and magical items, and do battle with sand dragons, and play games of chance for their lives....errrrr.

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Jun 7th 3:08 PM
I don't see littlefinger as the grandson of Dunk.... Dunk is way too noble to have Littlefinger as his offspring, plus it'll be way too obvious. What if Dunk is Ned or Cate's grandpa, though?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 7th 3:33 PM
That sure seems slim. I don't see how a daughter of Dunk's would marry into the Starks or Tullys.

Certainly, we know that Cat's grandparents were the previous Lord Tully and, presumably, Lord Whent.

And Ned's grandfather paternally is obvious.

Of course, there's that mysterious fourth parent -- Ned's mother -- that has yet to be mentioned. However, I should wonder how the heck Dunk had a daughter who: a) followed the old gods (which is implicit about Ned's mother -- no sept existed at Winterfell until Ned built one for Cat) b) became important enough to marry a lord of one of the Great Houses, and c) Happened to marry a guy in the North.

Seems thin to me. I like the idea that Littlefinger is Dunk's descendant. Nobility is not genetic. ;)

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Jun 8th 2:36 PM
Ran - I don't see why it couldn't have happened:

a) she could have been an atheist or someone who doesn't care too much about prayer... there has been several characters like that in ASoIaF

b) Well, if Dunk's daughter was the mother of Ned's mother it makes perfect sense, but even if she's his mother, it is possible, since Dunk is a close personal friend of the King, and maybe in the kingsguard/small counsil

c) Why not? Joffrey almost marries Sansa.

Mind you, I don't think it is true, either... but it's fun as speculation... I'm certain he's not Littlefinger's grandfather - if only because it was speculated about way too many times.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Jun 8th 2:52 PM
Completely off the point here, but I wonder how "watered down" the blood of the First Men has become. Whatever portion of Ned's blood is that of the "First Men", his kids would have about half that because of the Tully side. And we don't know if the Starks ever had previously married out of the North but I suspect so.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 8th 3:21 PM
Omer,

A) Could be, but Dunk was obviously an adherent of the Seven, if not as strongly as some. I should imagine his daughter might be the same.

B) I don't see how a kingsguard would have a legitimate daughter. ;) Well, unless it was a case like Jorah, but that'd be pretty late.

C) Joff was the "son" of Ned's best friend, practically a brother even. That seems an obvious connection. But Dunk doesn't have that connection to anyone in the North at the time we see him, and I'm not sure if he ever would.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 8th 3:25 PM
Jeff,

Ahh, the First Men blood ... good question. It's not very clear, of course. They must have married with Andalish folk, or folk with previous Andalish blood, at least a couple of times. But they appear to be, at the least, the purest-blooded nobility of the First Men line.

Not sure what that's worth -- I think it's a given that Ned has less ancestral First Men blood than, say, a predecessor two thousand years before. But how much the difference would be . . .

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Jun 9th 1:37 AM
Ran

a) My father believes in the Jewish God, I don't.

b) Well, ok, but he'd have a high position in court.

c) the Same - If Egg wants to keep some northern noble in check, he might pressure for this kind of marriage. Or... it might be true love?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 9th 4:17 AM
Omer,

It's not exactly typical for a place where folk believe in the gods to have people who hold differing opinions from their parents. The Hound and Stannis are the only two we've seen, and they've had rather bad/tragic/screwed-up lives to lead them to being atheistic (essentially.)

So, I can't see why Dunk's daughter would not follow the Seven.

And while he might have a position at court, there is only so high that a hedge knight would be allowed to rise. I wouldn't be surprised if Dunk ended up master-at-arms at the Red Keep, or perhaps a minor lord and personal councillor to the king, but that's nothing to force a Great House to wed its heir to his daughter.

True love . . . well, perhaps. I don't really buy it.

Werther
User ID: 1731514 Jun 9th 11:10 AM
I read the Hedge Knight earlier this week. Good story. Couldn't read fast enough at the end. Waiting for Baelor to ride up and be the seventh.

Carol
User ID: 0060104 Jun 9th 12:26 PM
Dunk seemed inclined to do some serious wandering when last seen. Might he have found his way beyond the Wall, and married a wildling? There's supposed to be some wildling blood in the Starks.

SPARHAWK THE MIGHTY
User ID: 0436494 Jun 9th 12:36 PM
THE REAL QUESTION IS; WHO CAME FIRST - EGG, OR THE CHICKEN?

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Jun 9th 2:38 PM
Minds me of a Gary Larson joke...
(slightly altered)

The Philosophers Answer to what came first, the Egg or the Chicken.

*Three pictures showing two philosophers and me, staring down on a chicken and an egg put in fornt of us*

Philosopher #1: "The Egg."

Philosopher #2: "The Chicken."

Me: "Hey, I ordered Chili!"

Vanryker User ID: 1300074	Feb 4th 10:14 AM I am still reading the hedge knight. Not quite finished yet. But I have a theory of who Egg is. I don't think he is just some orphan from flea bottom like Dunk thinks he is. Why all the knowledge on the high born knights. I think he comes from nobility and has disguised himself by shaving his head. Why the reluctance to go to the castle. Maybe his father a high lord is there? What do think? Could be totally wrong as I have not finished it. Just started it last night. If completely wrong just say so. Don't ruin the end for me.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Feb 4th 11:37 AM You're on the right track, Vanryker. Enjoy the story. It's a good one. :)
Vanryker User ID: 1300074	Feb 7th 9:29 AM Thanks Ran, yup I was right on track and what a terrific short story. I sure hope GRRM continues on with his story of Egg & Dunk. I loved it, highly recommended while waiting for his next novel.
MAD-ness User ID: 3612744	May 31st 4:55 PM It sounds like you finished it so I will not worry, much, about spoilers. It took me a while to piece together the Targaryen blood line from Dany up through Daeron (Baelor's and Maekar's father, who brought Dorne into the Seven Kingdoms). Anyways, it is very fascinating. Egg ends up being Aegon the Unlikely, the 4th son of a 4th son. This is mentioned in a Game of Thrones when discussing Maester Aemon, of the Night's Watch. He was Egg's brother, the one who was sent off the Citadel. I believe he was the third son, younger than Daeron and Aerion, respectively, but older than Aegon. If you check out the index in A Game of Thrones, you see that Aegon had a very long rule, in comparison to most of the other recent Targaryens. I rate Egg up there with Tyrion and Arya as the top characters that Martin has created in the Song of Ice and Fire. Martin has stated that he might work on stories set before the Song of Ice and Fire, once he finishes the current double trilogy, but that if he did they would not be set during the War of the Usurper, but would be set after the Hedge Knight and would follow Dunk and Aegon. I keep meaning to review ALL of the battle and tourney scenes in aGoT and aCoK to see if Dunk's standard is mentioned anywhere. I know that the Green Apple Fossoways are mentioned. Of course, Ser Duncan the Tall may have changed his standard at some point, but I doubt it, since Egg helped choose it, Baelor died defending its honor (as an extension of defending Dunk) and the puppet girl painted it. What I mean to say is, did Dunk start a noble line? We know Maekar offered him land when trying to convince him to take Egg as a squire. If Dunk was still alive at the time that Aegon the Unlikely took the throne, he would likely be a member of the court, perhaps even a member of the King's Gaurd. Anyways, we will have to wait for those stories, if they are ever written, to find out the details, but has anyone already searched the standards discussed in A Song of Ice and Fire to see if something matching the description of Dunk's is mentioned?
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 31st 5:21 PM Heh, yeah, I suppose one might say I've searched the banners in the books. ;) Dunk's arms appear nowhere. GRRM has said that he'd leave it a question for the Dunk & Egg stories that he hopes to write some day, or perhaps "later volumes" of _A Song of Ice and Fire_. This is in October '98. In January '99, he says, 'Oh, maybe,' when someone asks if a descendant of Dunk's appears in ASoIaF. Essentially, I think we'll see a descendant of Dunk's. In fact, I think we already have -- I'm strongly of the opinion that Petyr Baelish is Duncan's grandson. Of course, the arms would have to change at some point, and your points for why Dunk wouldn't do this are good. It's not impossible that Dunk has no gentle or nobleborn descendants, but that some commoner we've stumbled across could be it. The obvious choice for this eventuality would be Hodor. BTW, Maekar didn't offer him land. Just a position as a member of Maekar's household.
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	Jun 1st 9:45 AM Dunchn and the Egg Mouser - I want to see them travel to the far east and bed drunken wenches, and drink kegs of iced wine that bring a "coolth" to their throats, and foil traitors and charlatans, and discover ancient histories and magical items, and do battle with sand dragons, and play games of chance for their lives....errrrr.
Omer User ID: 9551723	Jun 7th 3:08 PM I don't see littlefinger as the grandson of Dunk.... Dunk is way too noble to have Littlefinger as his offspring, plus it'll be way too obvious. What if Dunk is Ned or Cate's grandpa, though?
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 7th 3:33 PM That sure seems slim. I don't see how a daughter of Dunk's would marry into the Starks or Tullys. Certainly, we know that Cat's grandparents were the previous Lord Tully and, presumably, Lord Whent. And Ned's grandfather paternally is obvious. Of course, there's that mysterious fourth parent -- Ned's mother -- that has yet to be mentioned. However, I should wonder how the heck Dunk had a daughter who: a) followed the old gods (which is implicit about Ned's mother -- no sept existed at Winterfell until Ned built one for Cat) b) became important enough to marry a lord of one of the Great Houses, and c) Happened to marry a guy in the North. Seems thin to me. I like the idea that Littlefinger is Dunk's descendant. Nobility is not genetic. ;)
Omer User ID: 9551723	Jun 8th 2:36 PM Ran - I don't see why it couldn't have happened: a) she could have been an atheist or someone who doesn't care too much about prayer... there has been several characters like that in ASoIaF b) Well, if Dunk's daughter was the mother of Ned's mother it makes perfect sense, but even if she's his mother, it is possible, since Dunk is a close personal friend of the King, and maybe in the kingsguard/small counsil c) Why not? Joffrey almost marries Sansa. Mind you, I don't think it is true, either... but it's fun as speculation... I'm certain he's not Littlefinger's grandfather - if only because it was speculated about way too many times.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Jun 8th 2:52 PM Completely off the point here, but I wonder how "watered down" the blood of the First Men has become. Whatever portion of Ned's blood is that of the "First Men", his kids would have about half that because of the Tully side. And we don't know if the Starks ever had previously married out of the North but I suspect so.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 8th 3:21 PM Omer, A) Could be, but Dunk was obviously an adherent of the Seven, if not as strongly as some. I should imagine his daughter might be the same. B) I don't see how a kingsguard would have a legitimate daughter. ;) Well, unless it was a case like Jorah, but that'd be pretty late. C) Joff was the "son" of Ned's best friend, practically a brother even. That seems an obvious connection. But Dunk doesn't have that connection to anyone in the North at the time we see him, and I'm not sure if he ever would.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 8th 3:25 PM Jeff, Ahh, the First Men blood ... good question. It's not very clear, of course. They must have married with Andalish folk, or folk with previous Andalish blood, at least a couple of times. But they appear to be, at the least, the purest-blooded nobility of the First Men line. Not sure what that's worth -- I think it's a given that Ned has less ancestral First Men blood than, say, a predecessor two thousand years before. But how much the difference would be . . .
Omer User ID: 9551723	Jun 9th 1:37 AM Ran a) My father believes in the Jewish God, I don't. b) Well, ok, but he'd have a high position in court. c) the Same - If Egg wants to keep some northern noble in check, he might pressure for this kind of marriage. Or... it might be true love?
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 9th 4:17 AM Omer, It's not exactly typical for a place where folk believe in the gods to have people who hold differing opinions from their parents. The Hound and Stannis are the only two we've seen, and they've had rather bad/tragic/screwed-up lives to lead them to being atheistic (essentially.) So, I can't see why Dunk's daughter would not follow the Seven. And while he might have a position at court, there is only so high that a hedge knight would be allowed to rise. I wouldn't be surprised if Dunk ended up master-at-arms at the Red Keep, or perhaps a minor lord and personal councillor to the king, but that's nothing to force a Great House to wed its heir to his daughter. True love . . . well, perhaps. I don't really buy it.
Werther User ID: 1731514	Jun 9th 11:10 AM I read the Hedge Knight earlier this week. Good story. Couldn't read fast enough at the end. Waiting for Baelor to ride up and be the seventh.
Carol User ID: 0060104	Jun 9th 12:26 PM Dunk seemed inclined to do some serious wandering when last seen. Might he have found his way beyond the Wall, and married a wildling? There's supposed to be some wildling blood in the Starks.
SPARHAWK THE MIGHTY User ID: 0436494	Jun 9th 12:36 PM THE REAL QUESTION IS; WHO CAME FIRST - EGG, OR THE CHICKEN?
KAH User ID: 0541004	Jun 9th 2:38 PM Minds me of a Gary Larson joke... (slightly altered) The Philosophers Answer to what came first, the Egg or the Chicken. Three pictures showing two philosophers and me, staring down on a chicken and an egg put in fornt of us Philosopher #1: "The Egg." Philosopher #2: "The Chicken." Me: "Hey, I ordered Chili!"