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A Song of Ice and Fire/ The Hedge Knight / Tad Williams (spoilers)

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 12th 5:35 PM

Dirjj
User ID: 1954724
Feb 11th 10:14 PM
Yeah, when I first thought about the plot, it sounded cool, but
why on earth would he want to wait hundreds of years to
fullfil a prophecy. What was in it to him, to wait so damn
long? The people that fought againsnt him, and the ones that
probably hated his kind the most had died long ago. Why
take revenge on someone's descendents?

Heck, I still don't know what was up with that priest, what
was his name, Pyrus or something like that. Also, what was
up with Morgenes' fellowship. I mean they sucked. They
didn't do much, and Tiamat was an idiot. He didn't need to be
in the story. People complain about Jordan dragging his feet
on a story, what was the deal with that episode in the spider
caves? I know that it leaves a lot to the imagination to bring
up something, and not finish it, but what was the deal with
Cadfael, or whatever that Drunken Monk's name was? Was
he something special that gave up or what?

Well, one great thing about the Series was that Williams left
the door open to prequels and sequals. Yeah, I have my
gripes, but I'd read more of it just to see if my questions got
answered.

ab

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 12th 5:43 PM
Dirji, Ineluki could only have pulled his little stunt at the time when astronomical occurences were the same as when he died - i.e. when the Conqueror's Star returned. In 500 years. Also, his goal was to destroy the humankind, because he, from his POV saw them as vermin infesting Osten Ard and destroying everything in their wake. Even Simon conceded that that point of view had some validity.

And, if Ineluki succeeded, he would have brought Asu'a and the people living there back to life. Thus it was not all about vengeance, etc, it was also about restoring his home. "He gave his life for his people, but he did not die" and he was trying to save them yet again...

Dirjj
User ID: 1954724 Feb 12th 6:16 PM
Ah, I see. I didn't remember about the conquering star, and I didn't know that a victory on his part would bring back his dead people. Now the plot seems cool.

What was the deal with Pyrus? How did he get sucked into things. He was the key to Elias falling apart.

ab

Malice
User ID: 9279843 Feb 12th 8:10 PM
If you mean Pryrates, the bald and creepy eunuch priest guy, he was in it for knowledge and power. <g> And as for Ineluki, he did go quite into a lapse after getting turned into a pile of schmitherines and stocked up on power as well as waited for the astrological alignments, etc. He was immortal, and of course time didn't pass as slowly for him as it would for the humans.

It was Cadrach and not Cadfael (Cadfael was the Ellis Peters guy remember <g>?). He fell into some pretty deep depression after reading the mad priest Nisses' book (jeez did you notice there are a lot of weird priests in Tad's books?). He had been one of the most powerful members of the League of the Scroll.

And the League of the Scroll itself, "Morgenes fellowship" wasn't meant to really lead in the first place. Basically it was a group of bookwords/eccentrics, though I didn't think it was as bad as you think it was, Dirjj.

I liked MS&T. The only character that tripped me up was Miriamele. She seem really typical. She complained a lot, but always seemed so darn superior. What I mean is she's the kind of person I'd never be able to be friends with. She just seemed so...high and mighty, inaccessible to low-born peasants like me.

Though I've no doubt she was much better than Jordan's harridans. :)

labor
User ID: 0798784 Feb 14th 6:11 PM
Of course the main beauty of Ineluki's plan was that his opponents would have done it all themselves... He made them work for him, in fact without their unwitting cooperation, the plan could never succeed.

Miriamele is really an extremely annoying character - i.e. willfully stubborn and stupid. She is constantly refusing to listen to reason, running away with the idea that she'll accomplish something momentious, but in fact she is only a damn nuisance until the final deus ex machina.
Of course, unlike with RJ women, there were some convincing reasons why Miriamele might have developped such a character. Having Elyas for a father was no joke, even before he went over the bend. And constantly being aware of failing everyone because she was not a son everyone wanted Elyas to have must have been very opressive.

BTW, isn't it a bit inconsequental that Ineluki wanted to take a human body? IMHO, a Gardenborn body should have served him much better.

Another small letdown was IMHO, that Williams didn't have the guts to kill Josua and Sir Camaris.

Dirjj
User ID: 1954724 Feb 14th 9:50 PM
Sequal sequal sequal.

ab

Street Prophet
User ID: 2107894 Feb 14th 11:13 PM
I'm sorry, what book are you talking about?

Dirjj
User ID: 1954724 Feb 14th 11:28 PM
The Series MEMORY SORRY THORN by Tad Williams.

ab

Ser Benjen
User ID: 9844073 Feb 15th 8:06 AM
That would be Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.

Malice
User ID: 9279843 Feb 15th 6:19 PM
labor, correct me if I'm wrong, but Camaris *did* die, didn't he? (Need to re-check the book, I think...but...)

I'm personally glad Josua did survive. I really fell for the trick, it sorta freaked me out. :) Wouldn't want to who family, 'cept annoying Miriamele, to die (though of course, if you want to get technical, they weren't part of the family, not really...but then they were kinda sorta...er...)

You really oughta ask Tad about Ineluki wanting a human body. Maybe there's something about the Sithi/Norns that would make that impossible? (or maybe you just caught a glitch :))

Malice
User ID: 9279843 Feb 16th 5:59 PM
Yagh. I meant that I wouldn't want the whole family except Miriamele to die. <g>

Elaira
User ID: 0192094 Aug 1st 2:38 PM
I was also glad that Josua survived. Maybe Williams did strech it a little, but Josua was my favorite character by a large margin, so I really didn't care.

Jim
User ID: 9077913 Aug 1st 10:33 PM
I liked MS&T. I do have to admit that Miriamelle annoyed me, especially when she ran off with Aspits and then just happenned to hook up with Simon at the end. What a little hooker!!!

Lannister
User ID: 0136334 Aug 7th 1:21 PM
You people, lay off Miriamelle! She seemed to me to be a typical high-born lord's daughter thrown into some crazy situations. She had character flaws, that much is obvious, but I think she also had some positive character attribues as well.

The Drunk Monk did nothing for the story in my opinion. We could have done without him.

Pyraxes was the typical villian you love to hate. I hated him and thought he was really creepy. That's what Williams wanted, after all.

I liked Josua alot. His scenes were my favorites in the series.

Jim, so she was seduced by Aspitis and slept with Simon. This makes her a little hooker, eh? There are so many things wrong with that statement I have no idea where to begin. I'll just let that one pass.

labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 12th 5:35 PM Dirjj User ID: 1954724 Feb 11th 10:14 PM Yeah, when I first thought about the plot, it sounded cool, but why on earth would he want to wait hundreds of years to fullfil a prophecy. What was in it to him, to wait so damn long? The people that fought againsnt him, and the ones that probably hated his kind the most had died long ago. Why take revenge on someone's descendents? Heck, I still don't know what was up with that priest, what was his name, Pyrus or something like that. Also, what was up with Morgenes' fellowship. I mean they sucked. They didn't do much, and Tiamat was an idiot. He didn't need to be in the story. People complain about Jordan dragging his feet on a story, what was the deal with that episode in the spider caves? I know that it leaves a lot to the imagination to bring up something, and not finish it, but what was the deal with Cadfael, or whatever that Drunken Monk's name was? Was he something special that gave up or what? Well, one great thing about the Series was that Williams left the door open to prequels and sequals. Yeah, I have my gripes, but I'd read more of it just to see if my questions got answered. ab
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 12th 5:43 PM Dirji, Ineluki could only have pulled his little stunt at the time when astronomical occurences were the same as when he died - i.e. when the Conqueror's Star returned. In 500 years. Also, his goal was to destroy the humankind, because he, from his POV saw them as vermin infesting Osten Ard and destroying everything in their wake. Even Simon conceded that that point of view had some validity. And, if Ineluki succeeded, he would have brought Asu'a and the people living there back to life. Thus it was not all about vengeance, etc, it was also about restoring his home. "He gave his life for his people, but he did not die" and he was trying to save them yet again...
Dirjj User ID: 1954724	Feb 12th 6:16 PM Ah, I see. I didn't remember about the conquering star, and I didn't know that a victory on his part would bring back his dead people. Now the plot seems cool. What was the deal with Pyrus? How did he get sucked into things. He was the key to Elias falling apart. ab
Malice User ID: 9279843	Feb 12th 8:10 PM If you mean Pryrates, the bald and creepy eunuch priest guy, he was in it for knowledge and power. <g> And as for Ineluki, he did go quite into a lapse after getting turned into a pile of schmitherines and stocked up on power as well as waited for the astrological alignments, etc. He was immortal, and of course time didn't pass as slowly for him as it would for the humans. It was Cadrach and not Cadfael (Cadfael was the Ellis Peters guy remember <g>?). He fell into some pretty deep depression after reading the mad priest Nisses' book (jeez did you notice there are a lot of weird priests in Tad's books?). He had been one of the most powerful members of the League of the Scroll. And the League of the Scroll itself, "Morgenes fellowship" wasn't meant to really lead in the first place. Basically it was a group of bookwords/eccentrics, though I didn't think it was as bad as you think it was, Dirjj. I liked MS&T. The only character that tripped me up was Miriamele. She seem really typical. She complained a lot, but always seemed so darn superior. What I mean is she's the kind of person I'd never be able to be friends with. She just seemed so...high and mighty, inaccessible to low-born peasants like me. Though I've no doubt she was much better than Jordan's harridans. :)
labor User ID: 0798784	Feb 14th 6:11 PM Of course the main beauty of Ineluki's plan was that his opponents would have done it all themselves... He made them work for him, in fact without their unwitting cooperation, the plan could never succeed. Miriamele is really an extremely annoying character - i.e. willfully stubborn and stupid. She is constantly refusing to listen to reason, running away with the idea that she'll accomplish something momentious, but in fact she is only a damn nuisance until the final deus ex machina. Of course, unlike with RJ women, there were some convincing reasons why Miriamele might have developped such a character. Having Elyas for a father was no joke, even before he went over the bend. And constantly being aware of failing everyone because she was not a son everyone wanted Elyas to have must have been very opressive. BTW, isn't it a bit inconsequental that Ineluki wanted to take a human body? IMHO, a Gardenborn body should have served him much better. Another small letdown was IMHO, that Williams didn't have the guts to kill Josua and Sir Camaris.
Dirjj User ID: 1954724	Feb 14th 9:50 PM Sequal sequal sequal. ab
Street Prophet User ID: 2107894	Feb 14th 11:13 PM I'm sorry, what book are you talking about?
Dirjj User ID: 1954724	Feb 14th 11:28 PM The Series MEMORY SORRY THORN by Tad Williams. ab
Ser Benjen User ID: 9844073	Feb 15th 8:06 AM That would be Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.
Malice User ID: 9279843	Feb 15th 6:19 PM labor, correct me if I'm wrong, but Camaris did die, didn't he? (Need to re-check the book, I think...but...) I'm personally glad Josua did survive. I really fell for the trick, it sorta freaked me out. :) Wouldn't want to who family, 'cept annoying Miriamele, to die (though of course, if you want to get technical, they weren't part of the family, not really...but then they were kinda sorta...er...) You really oughta ask Tad about Ineluki wanting a human body. Maybe there's something about the Sithi/Norns that would make that impossible? (or maybe you just caught a glitch :))
Malice User ID: 9279843	Feb 16th 5:59 PM Yagh. I meant that I wouldn't want the whole family except Miriamele to die. <g>
Elaira User ID: 0192094	Aug 1st 2:38 PM I was also glad that Josua survived. Maybe Williams did strech it a little, but Josua was my favorite character by a large margin, so I really didn't care.
Jim User ID: 9077913	Aug 1st 10:33 PM I liked MS&T. I do have to admit that Miriamelle annoyed me, especially when she ran off with Aspits and then just happenned to hook up with Simon at the end. What a little hooker!!!
Lannister User ID: 0136334	Aug 7th 1:21 PM You people, lay off Miriamelle! She seemed to me to be a typical high-born lord's daughter thrown into some crazy situations. She had character flaws, that much is obvious, but I think she also had some positive character attribues as well. The Drunk Monk did nothing for the story in my opinion. We could have done without him. Pyraxes was the typical villian you love to hate. I hated him and thought he was really creepy. That's what Williams wanted, after all. I liked Josua alot. His scenes were my favorites in the series. Jim, so she was seduced by Aspitis and slept with Simon. This makes her a little hooker, eh? There are so many things wrong with that statement I have no idea where to begin. I'll just let that one pass.