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A Song of Ice and Fire / Other Topics / 50 years from now

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

brosan May 17th 10:22 AM
To the question posed:

What is the most important thing you would like to get/achieve from your work?

at

http://www.festivale.webcentral.com.au/questions/georgerrmartin2.htm

GRRM answers: Immortality.

What do you think? How will Martin's work stand the test of time. All of his books have not survived a 2nd printing and aren�t available right now. Will this happen to ASOIAF too? Or will he become a new Tolkien?

What do you think. What would critics say 50 years from now (Would they even care?)

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 May 17th 10:54 AM
Its probably a bit early to say. If the rest of the series consistently hits the bestsellers, or the quality stays this high, I think it will be a series that will be reread by folks 50 years down the road. Not many fantasy authors have that kind of legacy, though. Tolkien certainly, but I'm not sure after him.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 17th 12:46 PM
I'm with Jeff. It's Martin's breakthrough onto the bestseller lists, and as such isn't going to drop off the face of the earth unless it takes a nosedive starting with _A Storm of Swords_. Actually, it won't disappear even then -- fifty years from now, folk would include ASoIaF as 'Biggest letdowns' or some such.

GRRM won't leave a Tolkienian legacy. But, if the series follows the quality of the previous two, he'll be better thought of than Jordan in 50 years, I'm pretty certain. And Goodkind. And Eddings. And probably Feist.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 May 17th 12:57 PM
Agreed there, Ran. If nothing else, I htink Martin's work will be more respected in a literary sense than that of the other authors you mentioned.

sparhawk
User ID: 0436494 May 17th 12:57 PM
good point there, ran.
you fascist!

Bill Hall
User ID: 8562343 May 17th 4:04 PM
If GRRM follows through on the remarkable and fantastic aspects of his story, it could well outdo - and outlast - Tolkein. If the Others turn out only to be boogeymen with no depth, if the weird seasons remain unexplained, if the remnants of Valyria play no real role, still it will be an entertaining read for generations. A "Treasure Island" for adults. IMHO.

GreenGerg
User ID: 0081374 May 17th 4:36 PM
Also, George has won a lot of awards and has been anthologized quite a bit. The second thing I read of his, in fact, as a kid in 1975, was "Song for Lya" in "The 1975 Year's Best SF" which I got when I joined the Science Fiction Book Club....I may never have read it otherwise.
So, I imagine at very least, his more famous stories (from "Lya" to "Sandkings" to "The Hedge Knight") will likely still be anthologized in future collections, and people will get turned on to him and seek out other books, which may compel publishers to keep them in print.

LindaElane
User ID: 0276214 May 17th 10:31 PM
Am I the only person posting here who has met GRRM? I think so. On that basis, I would like to speculate somewhat about this answer.

GRRM is a brilliant man. He is not a man full of pride, he can be almost self depricating at times. He is humorous, egalitarian, no sense of superiority to the common man.

I honestly think he said "immortality" for many reasons, for he is a complex man. One reason is sort of sarcasm. Its a sort of commentary on every author's dream of "immortality". In some ways he meant it in the way Tyrion would have meant it if he said he wanted to be "immortal". If you saw GRRM, you might feel you see the good points of Tyrion in him.

GRRM does not think people will read his works through all eternity. He does not really dream of achieving "immortality" in that way. He could dream something like "The greats of fantasy: JRR Tolkien, George RR Martin". But thats probably private. He really wasn't going to go into details of what he may or may not specifically dream in that interview.

Well, honestly, I just feel odd about this topic. I feel as if people were commenting on a friend of mine who said he wants to be "immortal". Of course, imho, that friend is as great as Tolkien. (And I use the term "friend" because in the one afternoon he let me see so much of himself at the booksigning, through answering my questions and talking to me, that I felt he was a friend. I am just about positive that at this point he does not remember me, but he probably remembered me most, at one time, of the people at that signing.)

Anyway, I just mean to say that GRRM did not mean that he strives for immortality in a silly or prideful or unrealistic way. He would like to have a place among the names of the best fantasy writers of this and the last century, and I am convinced he will.

brosan
User ID: 0909594 May 18th 4:52 AM
Hi Linda. That�s an interesting point you make. I posted this question out of the experience that most artists (and I know a lot) actually yearn for immortality. To be remembered after one�s death. The more intelligent they are, the more they want it. Let�s face it: nearly 100% of people that go public want to be loved. Even we here that post messages do that a little bit.. ahem.. even sparhawk .... maybe .. :-)

But I don�t think it�s up to us to discuss if GRRM really wants to become immortal - I agree with you there - but the basic question is: What will be GRRMs heritage to the world - if there will be one. I found that GRRMs work stands aside from all the popular fiction that surrounds us. Even if you look into LEGENDS, you will not find a second story of the calibre of Hedgeknight. I�m a little bit afraid that a lot of people will not read/experience GRRM out of their assumption that SF/Fantasy is done by mediocre writers (Goodkind/Jordan) and they would never look for a classic piece of literature there.
That�s why I�m a little bit afraid that his works will not receive the long-term success that Tolkien's, Howard's, Burrough's have.

sparhawk
User ID: 0436494 May 18th 6:11 AM
LOVE ME!! YOU REALLY LOVE ME!!!

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 May 18th 8:11 AM
LindaElane, i took his remarks to be tongue in cheek. The guy is completely unpretentious -- he answers e-mails from fans like us when he has absolutely no obligation to do so. And he genuinely seems interested in his own work almost as a fan would. I've never met him, but from what I do know of him, he's seems like a genuinely nice guy.

It'll be tough to top Tolkien because Tolkien was the one who really cracked the barrier for fantasy. Only one guy can be first. But Martin's one of the few other fantasy author's I've read that I think stacks up well against "serious", non-fantasy writers.

brosan May 18th 8:22 AM
Jeff, you can be a nice guy AND try to do something that lasts longer than yourself. There�s no contradiction.

The fascinating thing about GRRM is that he is a very good writer by all standards - I have persuaded a lot of people into ASOIAF who would never read Fantasy (you know, "Dragons and Magic ...brrr")by giving The Hedgeknight to them and telling them that it�s just a historic novel. They were absolutely thrilled.

Apart from that I would be very interested in how successfuls ASOIAF really is. I�m not so sure. Even the dreadful Sword-of-Truth series is now out as audiobook...

LindaElane
User ID: 0276214 May 21st 10:54 PM
Well, yes, Jeff, I took the remarks that way too.

Omer
User ID: 9014973 May 22nd 6:37 AM
Now I have to admit, I don't think many people will read Martin 50, a hundred years from - well, not from now, but - from the day of his last book. I mean, how many 19th century authors have you guys read? Oscar Wilde, Bernard Shaw, Dickens? You can inflate the list with maybe 10, 20, 30 writers tops. Truth is, very few pieces of fiction tend to survive the pass of the centuries. But then so what? Martin's prose is powerful. I'm not sure it will out last anyone, but what's the matter witht hat? we'll enjoy it, and THAT's what counts.

Omer
User ID: 9014973 May 22nd 6:39 AM
An interesting test case for that, is to see ho wmany people are interested in digging up Martin's old stuff. I know I am, but I have the feeling I'm not in a great company. So if even ASoIaF readers won't dig up Martin's old works, what shall future generations say?

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 22nd 7:51 AM
Well, for my part, I have a lot of material-to-read on my plate, not only GRRM.
We'll see about catching up on non-ASoIaF stuff later...

brosan May 22nd 10:18 AM
Omer, as we�re living in the 21st century now, you should think more of 40ies, 50ies literature (as is Lord of the Rings or Conan (even 30ies)) as of 19th century-literature.
But you have a point there. I am too very surprised that his old books are still out of print - actually that�s the reason for posting this question. If ASOIAF is such a big success (I mean commercially - who made us believe that in the first place actually?) then why don�t they reprint his old books??

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 22nd 12:53 PM
Well, _A Song for Lya_ is getting a re-printing. Check his website at for information about it:

http://www.sfwa.org/members/Martin_GRR/

I suspect we'll see more of this sort of re-printing as time goes by. But he's only cracked the bestseller lists with _A Clash of Kings_, and it might take a repeat or two before the idea catches on.

Lodengarl
User ID: 0603144 May 22nd 1:42 PM
I got to take Terry Pratchett our for a beer after a book signing - spent about an hour with him drinking Fosters, playing foosball (sp?) and he told me to always practice "High Weirdness". This was a year before he became insanely popular. I will never forget asking him to go to a pub for a beer, having his agent try to lie for him to get out of it, and having him tell his agent she was wrong and that he wanted to go have a beer. He hopped into the back of my car, drove down to the pub, had a few oil-cans and talked for a good hour - got some pictures, and of course, I still kept his Fosters can.

Sounds like GRRM is down to earth like that - I loved his passage from "Faces of Fantasy" - it is perfect! I hope to meet him someday and have a beer with him.

brosan May 23rd 3:50 AM
Ran, ok. Babbage Press -- boooks on demand, available through the Dangerous Visions Bookstore ... How many do you think they�ll sell? 10, 50 or really 100? Sorry, couldn�t help it.

But you have a point there: Through Books-on-Demand or E-books every book will be available all the time forever, once the layout is done, but then this will not assure that an author will be read for a long time after he�s stopped writing.

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

brosan	May 17th 10:22 AM To the question posed: What is the most important thing you would like to get/achieve from your work? at http://www.festivale.webcentral.com.au/questions/georgerrmartin2.htm GRRM answers: Immortality. What do you think? How will Martin's work stand the test of time. All of his books have not survived a 2nd printing and aren�t available right now. Will this happen to ASOIAF too? Or will he become a new Tolkien? What do you think. What would critics say 50 years from now (Would they even care?)
Jeff User ID: 1536664	May 17th 10:54 AM Its probably a bit early to say. If the rest of the series consistently hits the bestsellers, or the quality stays this high, I think it will be a series that will be reread by folks 50 years down the road. Not many fantasy authors have that kind of legacy, though. Tolkien certainly, but I'm not sure after him.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 17th 12:46 PM I'm with Jeff. It's Martin's breakthrough onto the bestseller lists, and as such isn't going to drop off the face of the earth unless it takes a nosedive starting with _A Storm of Swords_. Actually, it won't disappear even then -- fifty years from now, folk would include ASoIaF as 'Biggest letdowns' or some such. GRRM won't leave a Tolkienian legacy. But, if the series follows the quality of the previous two, he'll be better thought of than Jordan in 50 years, I'm pretty certain. And Goodkind. And Eddings. And probably Feist.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	May 17th 12:57 PM Agreed there, Ran. If nothing else, I htink Martin's work will be more respected in a literary sense than that of the other authors you mentioned.
sparhawk User ID: 0436494	May 17th 12:57 PM good point there, ran. you fascist!
Bill Hall User ID: 8562343	May 17th 4:04 PM If GRRM follows through on the remarkable and fantastic aspects of his story, it could well outdo - and outlast - Tolkein. If the Others turn out only to be boogeymen with no depth, if the weird seasons remain unexplained, if the remnants of Valyria play no real role, still it will be an entertaining read for generations. A "Treasure Island" for adults. IMHO.
GreenGerg User ID: 0081374	May 17th 4:36 PM Also, George has won a lot of awards and has been anthologized quite a bit. The second thing I read of his, in fact, as a kid in 1975, was "Song for Lya" in "The 1975 Year's Best SF" which I got when I joined the Science Fiction Book Club....I may never have read it otherwise. So, I imagine at very least, his more famous stories (from "Lya" to "Sandkings" to "The Hedge Knight") will likely still be anthologized in future collections, and people will get turned on to him and seek out other books, which may compel publishers to keep them in print.
LindaElane User ID: 0276214	May 17th 10:31 PM Am I the only person posting here who has met GRRM? I think so. On that basis, I would like to speculate somewhat about this answer. GRRM is a brilliant man. He is not a man full of pride, he can be almost self depricating at times. He is humorous, egalitarian, no sense of superiority to the common man. I honestly think he said "immortality" for many reasons, for he is a complex man. One reason is sort of sarcasm. Its a sort of commentary on every author's dream of "immortality". In some ways he meant it in the way Tyrion would have meant it if he said he wanted to be "immortal". If you saw GRRM, you might feel you see the good points of Tyrion in him. GRRM does not think people will read his works through all eternity. He does not really dream of achieving "immortality" in that way. He could dream something like "The greats of fantasy: JRR Tolkien, George RR Martin". But thats probably private. He really wasn't going to go into details of what he may or may not specifically dream in that interview. Well, honestly, I just feel odd about this topic. I feel as if people were commenting on a friend of mine who said he wants to be "immortal". Of course, imho, that friend is as great as Tolkien. (And I use the term "friend" because in the one afternoon he let me see so much of himself at the booksigning, through answering my questions and talking to me, that I felt he was a friend. I am just about positive that at this point he does not remember me, but he probably remembered me most, at one time, of the people at that signing.) Anyway, I just mean to say that GRRM did not mean that he strives for immortality in a silly or prideful or unrealistic way. He would like to have a place among the names of the best fantasy writers of this and the last century, and I am convinced he will.
brosan User ID: 0909594	May 18th 4:52 AM Hi Linda. That�s an interesting point you make. I posted this question out of the experience that most artists (and I know a lot) actually yearn for immortality. To be remembered after one�s death. The more intelligent they are, the more they want it. Let�s face it: nearly 100% of people that go public want to be loved. Even we here that post messages do that a little bit.. ahem.. even sparhawk .... maybe .. :-) But I don�t think it�s up to us to discuss if GRRM really wants to become immortal - I agree with you there - but the basic question is: What will be GRRMs heritage to the world - if there will be one. I found that GRRMs work stands aside from all the popular fiction that surrounds us. Even if you look into LEGENDS, you will not find a second story of the calibre of Hedgeknight. I�m a little bit afraid that a lot of people will not read/experience GRRM out of their assumption that SF/Fantasy is done by mediocre writers (Goodkind/Jordan) and they would never look for a classic piece of literature there. That�s why I�m a little bit afraid that his works will not receive the long-term success that Tolkien's, Howard's, Burrough's have.
sparhawk User ID: 0436494	May 18th 6:11 AM LOVE ME!! YOU REALLY LOVE ME!!!
Jeff User ID: 1536664	May 18th 8:11 AM LindaElane, i took his remarks to be tongue in cheek. The guy is completely unpretentious -- he answers e-mails from fans like us when he has absolutely no obligation to do so. And he genuinely seems interested in his own work almost as a fan would. I've never met him, but from what I do know of him, he's seems like a genuinely nice guy. It'll be tough to top Tolkien because Tolkien was the one who really cracked the barrier for fantasy. Only one guy can be first. But Martin's one of the few other fantasy author's I've read that I think stacks up well against "serious", non-fantasy writers.
brosan	May 18th 8:22 AM Jeff, you can be a nice guy AND try to do something that lasts longer than yourself. There�s no contradiction. The fascinating thing about GRRM is that he is a very good writer by all standards - I have persuaded a lot of people into ASOIAF who would never read Fantasy (you know, "Dragons and Magic ...brrr")by giving The Hedgeknight to them and telling them that it�s just a historic novel. They were absolutely thrilled. Apart from that I would be very interested in how successfuls ASOIAF really is. I�m not so sure. Even the dreadful Sword-of-Truth series is now out as audiobook...
LindaElane User ID: 0276214	May 21st 10:54 PM Well, yes, Jeff, I took the remarks that way too.
Omer User ID: 9014973	May 22nd 6:37 AM Now I have to admit, I don't think many people will read Martin 50, a hundred years from - well, not from now, but - from the day of his last book. I mean, how many 19th century authors have you guys read? Oscar Wilde, Bernard Shaw, Dickens? You can inflate the list with maybe 10, 20, 30 writers tops. Truth is, very few pieces of fiction tend to survive the pass of the centuries. But then so what? Martin's prose is powerful. I'm not sure it will out last anyone, but what's the matter witht hat? we'll enjoy it, and THAT's what counts.
Omer User ID: 9014973	May 22nd 6:39 AM An interesting test case for that, is to see ho wmany people are interested in digging up Martin's old stuff. I know I am, but I have the feeling I'm not in a great company. So if even ASoIaF readers won't dig up Martin's old works, what shall future generations say?
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 22nd 7:51 AM Well, for my part, I have a lot of material-to-read on my plate, not only GRRM. We'll see about catching up on non-ASoIaF stuff later...
brosan	May 22nd 10:18 AM Omer, as we�re living in the 21st century now, you should think more of 40ies, 50ies literature (as is Lord of the Rings or Conan (even 30ies)) as of 19th century-literature. But you have a point there. I am too very surprised that his old books are still out of print - actually that�s the reason for posting this question. If ASOIAF is such a big success (I mean commercially - who made us believe that in the first place actually?) then why don�t they reprint his old books??
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 22nd 12:53 PM Well, _A Song for Lya_ is getting a re-printing. Check his website at for information about it: http://www.sfwa.org/members/Martin_GRR/ I suspect we'll see more of this sort of re-printing as time goes by. But he's only cracked the bestseller lists with _A Clash of Kings_, and it might take a repeat or two before the idea catches on.
Lodengarl User ID: 0603144	May 22nd 1:42 PM I got to take Terry Pratchett our for a beer after a book signing - spent about an hour with him drinking Fosters, playing foosball (sp?) and he told me to always practice "High Weirdness". This was a year before he became insanely popular. I will never forget asking him to go to a pub for a beer, having his agent try to lie for him to get out of it, and having him tell his agent she was wrong and that he wanted to go have a beer. He hopped into the back of my car, drove down to the pub, had a few oil-cans and talked for a good hour - got some pictures, and of course, I still kept his Fosters can. Sounds like GRRM is down to earth like that - I loved his passage from "Faces of Fantasy" - it is perfect! I hope to meet him someday and have a beer with him.
brosan	May 23rd 3:50 AM Ran, ok. Babbage Press -- boooks on demand, available through the Dangerous Visions Bookstore ... How many do you think they�ll sell? 10, 50 or really 100? Sorry, couldn�t help it. But you have a point there: Through Books-on-Demand or E-books every book will be available all the time forever, once the layout is done, but then this will not assure that an author will be read for a long time after he�s stopped writing.