A mirror of the eeesite "A Song of Ice and Fire"

This is a mirror of the now defunct eesite ASOIAF webboard.

The discussions for G.R.R. Martin's awesome series "A Song of Ice and Fire" are now being held at: Current ASoIaF Webboard

You cannot post new messages to this board. Go to the Current ASoIaF Webboard for the most current discussions.

A Song of Ice and Fire / Other Topics / Recommended Reading

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Claidhaim
User ID: 9544623 Mar 25th 2:41 PM
Let's try this one again, too.

While we sit and discuss what we think it means, what it will become, and who will do what to whom, I have a few suggestions for material that will help pass the time away.

Read "The Phoenix Guard" and "500-years after" by Steven Brust. They are fantastic, and in an epic scale. The world is really interesting. Great stuff, written like Dumas (the Three Musketeers, and 20 Years after, The Vicompte de Bragelione)

Picture a world where the elves are 7-8 feet tall and all of them can use sorcery to an extent. These are the Humans. Easterners are what we would call humans. Seventeen great houses each with it's own peculiarity (house powers, if you will).

If you want more Brust, read the Vlad Taltos series. A week-end read, but there are about 8 of them. Funny, quirky, cynical, really enjoyable for what they are. Same world, different time. Follows the career of an assassin who happens to be an easterner in the empire of the elves. Very different and refreshing.

Give them a try.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Mar 25th 3:10 PM
I will once again recommend the writings of Guy Gavriel Kay, especially A Song for Arbonne and The Lions of Al-Rassan. Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy is also wonderful. You won't find it on the fantasy shelves, but The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett can be appreciated in the same vein. A truly great story!

Keri Stevenson
User ID: 9196513 Mar 25th 5:02 PM
A excellent fantasy writer who seems to be underapprecitated- at least his name isn't very often mentioned- is Glen Cook. His Black Company series is well-written, though it has a terse style that can be a little hard to get used to. First-person narration for the first book, then a mix of first and third-person narration for all the rest. Sarcastic, all of them :). Give them a try. There are eight of them so far- the Black Company Trilogy, the two Books of the South, _The Silver Spike_ (which doesn't really follow the same storyline as the others), and the first two books of the Glittering Stone Tetralogy- with a new one, _Water Sleeps_, just out.

_Ring of Lightning_ and _Ring of Intrigue_ by Jane Fancher are also good. Excellent character development, realistic situations, and a strange system of magic based on "ley." The only drawback is that the third book isn't out yet.

And almost anything by Louise Cooper is good, the Time Master Trilogy especially. Chaos and Order again, but not Black and White.

shardy
User ID: 8966303 Mar 25th 5:16 PM
Robin Hobb is a fairly new author with some really good books out.

Claidhaim
User ID: 9544623 Mar 26th 2:46 PM
Shardy;

I don't know when the book will be out, but my best guess is sometime next year around July/August. Many novels, once contracted, appear on a regular interval: Hardback release, paperback release six months later.

I also believe that publishers of best selling authors publish their books around Christmas and July for the Holiday gift giving public and the vacationing public respecively.

Susan
User ID: 7615523 Mar 30th 3:22 PM
I second the recommendation of Robin Hobb. Her
Assassins series has a bit of the same dark flavor
of Song of Ice and Fire, and shares a few of the
minor themes.

In a totally different vein is Swordspoint, by
Ellen Kushner. This is a wonderful, sophisticated, poetic book. It's the sort of book
that is complete as is, but leaves me wanting more of the characters and setting, even though no doubt the author knew best when to stop.

Min
User ID: 9433023 Apr 1st 4:21 PM
I, too, suggest Robin Hobb's "the farseers". Not only a good book, but very interesting in topics like being bonded to an animal and other things that also appear in ASoIaF.

Scott
User ID: 8750183 Apr 6th 1:11 PM
I liked Hobbs' and Tad Williams' series, but some of the others I thought were just OK. I read the Black Company (first book only), and Tigana by Gavriel Kay. I didn't really find anything in them to make me come back for more. Are some of the other books by these authors better?

Two other series I liked: The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon, and The Bakers Boy by June Jones.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Apr 6th 1:14 PM
Scott, Tigana is considered by many to be Kay's finest work, but I felt A Song for Arbonne was far superior. Arbonne was written with passion, and ellicits all kinds of emotions from the reader.

Markus Apr 6th 2:30 PM
BLACK COMPANY is one of the best books in the Black Company-series, thus if you didn't like it especially, then you won't like the rest either.

Who doesn't like TIGANA won't like Kay altogether in my opinion. With the exception of The FIONAVAR TAPESTRY (not recommended) all his books are rather similar in style and I wouldn't say that A SONG FOR ARBONNNE is far superior to TIGANA.

I would agree with the recommendations of Robin Hobb, Tad Williams and Steven Brust as well as with SWORDSPOINT and THE DEED OF PAKSENARRION.

Further suggestions would be Stephen R. Donalson (if you don't mind flawed protagonists), C.S. Friedman (The Coldfire Trilogy is a mix of Fantasy and Sci-Fi; also recommended: IN CONQUEST BORN, great Sci-Fi) and Robert Jordan (who is worth reading although the quality of his work varies lately).

Another series I like very much is Lois McMaster Bujold's series about Miles Vorkosigan, a guy who resembles Tyrion a bit. Of course, this is Sci-Fi, although character driven.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Apr 6th 3:18 PM
Thank you for your kind comments, Markus, but that's why they offer a wide variety of books in libraries and bookstores. And I disagree with your assessment of Kay. I personally found A Song for Arbonne to be far superior to Tigana. You may not agree and that's your right. But don't dissade someone from reading what I personally believe is one of the finest fantasy books ever written.

Markus Apr 6th 4:18 PM
As I re-read my comments about GGK I have to admit they weren't especially favourable, which is misleading because I like his books very much.

Further, I believe I liked A SONG FOR ARBONNE even a little more than TIGANA, in contrast to the vast majority of people I know of, probably because I found Kay's description of Dianora unbelievable and overly manipulative at times.

However, I would still discourage anybody from reading other works of GGK if he didn't like TIGANA especially, because I think that Kay's books resemble each other very much and don't show big differences in their quality (aside from FIONAVAR).

Of course, this is only my opinion as I already stated in my previous comment.

Min
User ID: 9433023 Apr 6th 5:39 PM

We all just state our opinions. No reason to argue about it. Just as a hint: The master himself named his favorite Fantasy-writers (look into the chat-transcript). That is only _his_ opinion, of course. :-)

Min
User ID: 9433023 Apr 6th 5:40 PM

I am sure that the reason why nobody named Tolkien is that this is the very basic for every one of us?

Scott
User ID: 0680084 Apr 6th 5:47 PM
I think we all assumed everyone else has already read Tolkien.

Rebecca
User ID: 7538493 Apr 6th 6:24 PM
One of my favorite series is Katherine Kurtz's Deryni books. If you haven't read them, you're missing a great read. And Katherine is one of those author's who's not afraid to kill of major characters. Warning: some deaths can only be described as "senseless deaths" which makes them all the harder to accept, but accept them you must. Right now it's four trilogies. THE LEGENDS OF CAMBER OF CULDI chronicles the restoration of the Haldanes to the throne of Gwynedd by the Deryni Earl, Camber MacRorie and his family. (Deryni are a race of people who have the ablity to weld magic.) THE HEIRS OF SAINT CAMBER details the aftermath of King Cinhil's death and the Deryni prosecutions that follow. THE DERYNI CHRONICLES and THE HISTORIES OF KING KELSON chronicle the reign of King Kelson I and take place about 200 years after the Camber books. Gwynedd now has a Deryni king on the throne, but there is still uneasiness about the Deryni in the land. These books detail how Kelson is able to keep his throne and bring stablity to the land. (A new Kelson book is due out in March 2000).

These books are different from other fantasy series in that the evil that is battled is human nature.

Min
User ID: 9433023 Apr 7th 5:46 AM
Here's a quote from the chat transcript - just for those who are too lazy to check it out on themselves ... :-)
<George_RR_Martin> "Many fantasies after Tolkien have been terrible, of course there are terrific writers, don't get me wrong. Tad Williams, Robin Hobb, Ursula K. Le Guin, Jack Vance, Guy Gavriel Kay, and others"

Keri Stevenson
User ID: 9969773 Apr 7th 7:06 AM
Glen Cook does have several other series out (though I have only read one other, and most of the books in them are hard to find). The one I've read is the Garrett series. Hard-boiled detective novels set in a fantasy world. Don't ask me how, but it works :). They're mostly light reads, but hilarious.

These books are really stand-alone books, and can be read in any order. Here are the titles, if you want them:

Sweet Silver Blues (A little inferior; don't judge the rest of the series by it).
Bitter Gold Hearts
Cold Copper Tears
Old Tin Sorrows (I personally thought this one was the best, in the sense of being deep and emotionally striking).
Dread Brass Shadows
Red Iron Nights
Deadly Quicksilver Lies
Petty Pewter Gods

He's got a new one, _Faded Steel Heat_, coming out in June, and I think some of the older ones will be reissued.

Ser Gary
User ID: 8068153 Apr 7th 7:20 AM
Sorry, Markus. I didn't mean for my comments to sound so snappish. As I re-read them, I realized they probably did. I apologize profusely :) And I have also read both Thomas Covenant series by Stephen R. Donaldson and thoroughly enjoyed them. Has anyone read Katherine Kerr?

Markus Apr 7th 8:28 AM
You have only said your opinion, Gary, no need to apologize as far as I'm concerned.

Since you like Donaldson, you might also like his duology MORDANT'S NEED.

1. THE MIRROR OF HER DREAMS
2. A MAN RIDES THROUGH

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Claidhaim User ID: 9544623	Mar 25th 2:41 PM Let's try this one again, too. While we sit and discuss what we think it means, what it will become, and who will do what to whom, I have a few suggestions for material that will help pass the time away. Read "The Phoenix Guard" and "500-years after" by Steven Brust. They are fantastic, and in an epic scale. The world is really interesting. Great stuff, written like Dumas (the Three Musketeers, and 20 Years after, The Vicompte de Bragelione) Picture a world where the elves are 7-8 feet tall and all of them can use sorcery to an extent. These are the Humans. Easterners are what we would call humans. Seventeen great houses each with it's own peculiarity (house powers, if you will). If you want more Brust, read the Vlad Taltos series. A week-end read, but there are about 8 of them. Funny, quirky, cynical, really enjoyable for what they are. Same world, different time. Follows the career of an assassin who happens to be an easterner in the empire of the elves. Very different and refreshing. Give them a try.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Mar 25th 3:10 PM I will once again recommend the writings of Guy Gavriel Kay, especially A Song for Arbonne and The Lions of Al-Rassan. Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy is also wonderful. You won't find it on the fantasy shelves, but The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett can be appreciated in the same vein. A truly great story!
Keri Stevenson User ID: 9196513	Mar 25th 5:02 PM A excellent fantasy writer who seems to be underapprecitated- at least his name isn't very often mentioned- is Glen Cook. His Black Company series is well-written, though it has a terse style that can be a little hard to get used to. First-person narration for the first book, then a mix of first and third-person narration for all the rest. Sarcastic, all of them :). Give them a try. There are eight of them so far- the Black Company Trilogy, the two Books of the South, _The Silver Spike_ (which doesn't really follow the same storyline as the others), and the first two books of the Glittering Stone Tetralogy- with a new one, _Water Sleeps_, just out. _Ring of Lightning_ and _Ring of Intrigue_ by Jane Fancher are also good. Excellent character development, realistic situations, and a strange system of magic based on "ley." The only drawback is that the third book isn't out yet. And almost anything by Louise Cooper is good, the Time Master Trilogy especially. Chaos and Order again, but not Black and White.
shardy User ID: 8966303	Mar 25th 5:16 PM Robin Hobb is a fairly new author with some really good books out.
Claidhaim User ID: 9544623	Mar 26th 2:46 PM Shardy; I don't know when the book will be out, but my best guess is sometime next year around July/August. Many novels, once contracted, appear on a regular interval: Hardback release, paperback release six months later. I also believe that publishers of best selling authors publish their books around Christmas and July for the Holiday gift giving public and the vacationing public respecively.
Susan User ID: 7615523	Mar 30th 3:22 PM I second the recommendation of Robin Hobb. Her Assassins series has a bit of the same dark flavor of Song of Ice and Fire, and shares a few of the minor themes. In a totally different vein is Swordspoint, by Ellen Kushner. This is a wonderful, sophisticated, poetic book. It's the sort of book that is complete as is, but leaves me wanting more of the characters and setting, even though no doubt the author knew best when to stop.
Min User ID: 9433023	Apr 1st 4:21 PM I, too, suggest Robin Hobb's "the farseers". Not only a good book, but very interesting in topics like being bonded to an animal and other things that also appear in ASoIaF.
Scott User ID: 8750183	Apr 6th 1:11 PM I liked Hobbs' and Tad Williams' series, but some of the others I thought were just OK. I read the Black Company (first book only), and Tigana by Gavriel Kay. I didn't really find anything in them to make me come back for more. Are some of the other books by these authors better? Two other series I liked: The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon, and The Bakers Boy by June Jones.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Apr 6th 1:14 PM Scott, Tigana is considered by many to be Kay's finest work, but I felt A Song for Arbonne was far superior. Arbonne was written with passion, and ellicits all kinds of emotions from the reader.
Markus	Apr 6th 2:30 PM BLACK COMPANY is one of the best books in the Black Company-series, thus if you didn't like it especially, then you won't like the rest either. Who doesn't like TIGANA won't like Kay altogether in my opinion. With the exception of The FIONAVAR TAPESTRY (not recommended) all his books are rather similar in style and I wouldn't say that A SONG FOR ARBONNNE is far superior to TIGANA. I would agree with the recommendations of Robin Hobb, Tad Williams and Steven Brust as well as with SWORDSPOINT and THE DEED OF PAKSENARRION. Further suggestions would be Stephen R. Donalson (if you don't mind flawed protagonists), C.S. Friedman (The Coldfire Trilogy is a mix of Fantasy and Sci-Fi; also recommended: IN CONQUEST BORN, great Sci-Fi) and Robert Jordan (who is worth reading although the quality of his work varies lately). Another series I like very much is Lois McMaster Bujold's series about Miles Vorkosigan, a guy who resembles Tyrion a bit. Of course, this is Sci-Fi, although character driven.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Apr 6th 3:18 PM Thank you for your kind comments, Markus, but that's why they offer a wide variety of books in libraries and bookstores. And I disagree with your assessment of Kay. I personally found A Song for Arbonne to be far superior to Tigana. You may not agree and that's your right. But don't dissade someone from reading what I personally believe is one of the finest fantasy books ever written.
Markus	Apr 6th 4:18 PM As I re-read my comments about GGK I have to admit they weren't especially favourable, which is misleading because I like his books very much. Further, I believe I liked A SONG FOR ARBONNE even a little more than TIGANA, in contrast to the vast majority of people I know of, probably because I found Kay's description of Dianora unbelievable and overly manipulative at times. However, I would still discourage anybody from reading other works of GGK if he didn't like TIGANA especially, because I think that Kay's books resemble each other very much and don't show big differences in their quality (aside from FIONAVAR). Of course, this is only my opinion as I already stated in my previous comment.
Min User ID: 9433023	Apr 6th 5:39 PM We all just state our opinions. No reason to argue about it. Just as a hint: The master himself named his favorite Fantasy-writers (look into the chat-transcript). That is only _his_ opinion, of course. :-)
Min User ID: 9433023	Apr 6th 5:40 PM I am sure that the reason why nobody named Tolkien is that this is the very basic for every one of us?
Scott User ID: 0680084	Apr 6th 5:47 PM I think we all assumed everyone else has already read Tolkien.
Rebecca User ID: 7538493	Apr 6th 6:24 PM One of my favorite series is Katherine Kurtz's Deryni books. If you haven't read them, you're missing a great read. And Katherine is one of those author's who's not afraid to kill of major characters. Warning: some deaths can only be described as "senseless deaths" which makes them all the harder to accept, but accept them you must. Right now it's four trilogies. THE LEGENDS OF CAMBER OF CULDI chronicles the restoration of the Haldanes to the throne of Gwynedd by the Deryni Earl, Camber MacRorie and his family. (Deryni are a race of people who have the ablity to weld magic.) THE HEIRS OF SAINT CAMBER details the aftermath of King Cinhil's death and the Deryni prosecutions that follow. THE DERYNI CHRONICLES and THE HISTORIES OF KING KELSON chronicle the reign of King Kelson I and take place about 200 years after the Camber books. Gwynedd now has a Deryni king on the throne, but there is still uneasiness about the Deryni in the land. These books detail how Kelson is able to keep his throne and bring stablity to the land. (A new Kelson book is due out in March 2000). These books are different from other fantasy series in that the evil that is battled is human nature.
Min User ID: 9433023	Apr 7th 5:46 AM Here's a quote from the chat transcript - just for those who are too lazy to check it out on themselves ... :-) <George_RR_Martin> "Many fantasies after Tolkien have been terrible, of course there are terrific writers, don't get me wrong. Tad Williams, Robin Hobb, Ursula K. Le Guin, Jack Vance, Guy Gavriel Kay, and others"
Keri Stevenson User ID: 9969773	Apr 7th 7:06 AM Glen Cook does have several other series out (though I have only read one other, and most of the books in them are hard to find). The one I've read is the Garrett series. Hard-boiled detective novels set in a fantasy world. Don't ask me how, but it works :). They're mostly light reads, but hilarious. These books are really stand-alone books, and can be read in any order. Here are the titles, if you want them: Sweet Silver Blues (A little inferior; don't judge the rest of the series by it). Bitter Gold Hearts Cold Copper Tears Old Tin Sorrows (I personally thought this one was the best, in the sense of being deep and emotionally striking). Dread Brass Shadows Red Iron Nights Deadly Quicksilver Lies Petty Pewter Gods He's got a new one, _Faded Steel Heat_, coming out in June, and I think some of the older ones will be reissued.
Ser Gary User ID: 8068153	Apr 7th 7:20 AM Sorry, Markus. I didn't mean for my comments to sound so snappish. As I re-read them, I realized they probably did. I apologize profusely :) And I have also read both Thomas Covenant series by Stephen R. Donaldson and thoroughly enjoyed them. Has anyone read Katherine Kerr?
Markus	Apr 7th 8:28 AM You have only said your opinion, Gary, no need to apologize as far as I'm concerned. Since you like Donaldson, you might also like his duology MORDANT'S NEED. 1. THE MIRROR OF HER DREAMS 2. A MAN RIDES THROUGH