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A Song of Ice and Fire / Other Topics / Religion - It continues

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Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Nov 8th 7:35 PM
The third part to the discussion on religion:

Here are the last few posts:LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Nov 8th 4:46 PM
I will admit I was not counting Chinese as polytheists. I really do not think that a majority are. Officially, most are atheists, millions belong to nonpolytheistic religions such as Chriatianity and Fulan Gong, Confucianism was never considered polytheistic, nor was Buddhism, and my Chinese friends tell me ancestor "worship" is not polytheism, if that was what the reference was to. Anyway, I am sure we are agreed that majority does not rule.

There is a great deal of truth to the idea of living each day as if it were your last, I think, as long as that is counterbalanced with also living each day as if your actions could affect you and possibly others for all time.
Rebecca
User ID: 0303694 Nov 8th 6:49 PM
Why must it be for all time? Why not live each day as if it were your last and live each day as if your actions could affect you and others for your lifetime (and theirs). I find that a lot more effective than trying to gauge whether my actions will get myself or others into some Paradise. In fact it's kind of ironic, don't you think, that religions tend to preach that no one knows the mind of God/the Gods, but presume to know what behavior will and will not reek the rewards or God/the Gods.

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Nov 8th 7:27 PM
Here's an example for you. If you are blind-folded and hold a donkey's tail in your hand. Your eternity relies on you hitting the donkey's butt that is somewhere around you.

You can say that there is no donkey and sit back down on your stool and drink beer (in KAH's case, sit on the floor cause he's already had more than a few).

You could blindly stab the tail into any surface that is near you. In this scenario, you don't think about it, you just push.

In the last scenario, you could gather as much information as possible and the take your best guess and push. You would continue to study, listen, think to try to pinpoint your accuracy as much as possible.

There is no way that we will be able to know exactly where the donkey is. The room is dark and we are blindfolded. There may not even be a donkey. The donkey may actually be 3 ducks, 2 chickens and a goat. If there is a donkey, the best path for finding it is to use your mind and not just trust to luck.

Rebecca it doesn't have to be for all time but making the attempt IMO is better than not. If for no other reason than it gives purpose to life.

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Nov 8th 7:36 PM
Another reason for believing in God that I have not yet given because it is not one you can debate is personal experience. I only bring it up now because belief in God is a decidedly personal decision and personal experiences play a large part in the decision making process.

DarthDarthBinks
User ID: 1696934 Nov 8th 8:09 PM
Belief in God is decidedly personal, and that is probably the best argument one can give in favor of faith. However, I would like to take issue with the statement that influencing others gives a purpose to life. Why must humans have some "purpose"? I don't buy the argument that humans have a 'telos' (??) or purpose like a tool.

If we were made for some purpose by some being, then how would that make our lives meaningful? How would accomplishing specific life tasks bring about a rationale for life? It just all appears insignificant in comparison to the scope of time and size of space.

Meaningfulness appears to be a function of the value we place on ourselves and others, rather than any external value placed by God/gods/nature. For the here and now it is important, but none of it will matter in a million years.

PS. I don't get the donkey anecdote at all.

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Nov 8th 10:40 PM
What if our purpose is something like "to fulfull our potential and help others do the same". I am not saying that I necessarily do or do not think that, I am just saying that it might be that. The other thing about purpose. For some people, i we are just going to die, what is the point of it all. Once we are dead, we will not know what happened in our life. So, to these people, life can have no personal purpose if we cease to exist at death. Sure, maybe it can have a purpose as far as helping others, but then those others won't know it either when they die. That sort of thinking will not be something everyone agrees with, but I would like to point out that it is one point of view. One view close to it is "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die". In other words, why behave "nobly" if "tomorrow we die"?

There could be good purposes in life. If there is a God/Gods, then the divine would not necessarily come up with a purpose for us that we would not go along with. Just a thought.

Another thought is that religion can bring great joy. There seems to be an assuption that it brings only bad on the part of some. Well, at least some have mentioned only bad things that it brings, I am not totally sure they feel it brings only bad.

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Nov 9th 12:19 PM
Explanation of Donkey. I was just trying to show that there is no way to understand God. Therefore there are several approaches one can take. Not believe, believe blindly (use faith as a crutch not to think), or believe using your mind. I was also trying to point out that we are only guessing at what God is like. There could be no God, one God, many Gods, or God could be completely different than what we think. I believe that believing and using your mind is the best approach. Not because I think that I will ever completely understand God but because I may glean a better understanding of some small part.

Darth I hope I didn't give the impression that I believe you must influence others to have a purpose. I believe that living my life the way God wants me to gives me purpose.

DarthDarthBinks
User ID: 1696934 Nov 12th 8:41 PM
Kevin, why does living as God wants you to give purpose? If the purpose of life is to please God, then why didn't god just create sycophants and people without free will? If the purpose of life is to _choose_ to do God's will, why is that meaningful. Why is following something else greater than oneself meaningful? How is that grand or fulfilling of one's own will?

I don't see how believing in God brings any purpose to life at all. That is one of the main reasons I stopped believing in a christian concept of God. I could not reconcile how living eternally would somehow be purposeful, joyous, or useful.

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Nov 13th 11:04 AM
Kevin has found that God gives him purpose in life. I take it on faith he does not have bad motives because he finds purpose in that and he is not lacking in intelligence because he finds purpose in that. However, so much in the world today says that religious people have bad motives and low intelligence that I certainly cannot blame people for asking.

I do think that religious people are often modest and do not say, when confronted with accusations, "but I believe the purpose of life is love", because they are afraid someone would think they are trying to show how good they are.

Darth, my belief is that dedicate oneself to love, to a higher purpose than one's self is meaningful. It is a matter of faith for me that it is meaningful. Thus, it cannot be proven. but I believe that learning to love is the purpose of life, and such learning comes through God, through whatever concept of God or a higher power a person has. Also, I don't deny that people can teach themselves to love without appeal to something greater than themselves, but it think its a pretty rough road to hoe.

I am far from perfect and I often fail, so I am not trying to prove that I am a good person by saying I believe in striving to love. It is this striving that makes much of my purpose in life. (Note: It is assumed that I will take care of myself even though I try to go beyond just looking out for me.)

I don't know much, but I think faith is believing in something even when so many circumstances on this little planet seem to scream at you that you are being naive and should not believe that. Its a voice inside that says love is the most important thing, so the giving of love is the purpose of life. For me, the voice inside also says that creation could not have arisen without a creator and the creation could only have purpose if God was love. I am afraid I cannot logically prove it. I defiantly choose to believe it in the face of whatever goes on in life.

Note: I have shared my own opinions because we are discussing religion. I am not preaching, nor do I ask anyone to agree.

DarthDarthBinks
User ID: 1696934 Nov 13th 7:33 PM
Linda,

I am not attempting to attack your faith, nor do I want to give that impression. I am simply stating some of the questions which about religion and faith which I couldn't answer. Thus, I stopped believing in religion.

I don't question a religious person's intelligence; rather, I'd like to know how they have answered the questions that turned me off of faith. For me, faith was the last step built off a rational foundation of a worldview. However, when the worldview was exposed as lacking, the leap of faith no longer seemed rational, so I abandoned it.

If anything, I seek to know how other people build up a rational edifice to make their own leap of faith. That is what is interesting in religion to me.

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Nov 13th 8:03 PM
Darth: Nice post. I didn't think you were attacking, but I did think it possible that you found the "religious world view" somewhat intellectually lacking. Thanks for the clarification of something I obviously missed.

I think faith could only be rational in the classical sense that Plato might have talked about what we now translate as "rational". I mean the word rational as in "Rational vs Empirical". Was that the type of rational you meant in talking about a rational edifice? Also I was not sure what you mean about "faith was the last step built off a rational foundation of a worldview." It sounds interesting though.

Kevin
User ID: 0025534 Nov 14th 1:19 AM
Darth I will attempt to answer what I perceive to be your questions from my point of view. The answers are not in the order asked but the order that is easiest to answer.

Why is following something else greater than oneself meaningful? - I say all people religious or not strive to follow something greater than themselves. Women's rights, environment, public good are all examples of people finding causes greater than themselves to give meaning to their lives. Why do we do this? I don't know, I haven't taken enough psycology. Maybe it combats a feeling of aimless wandering.

Why did God give us free will if he just wanted someone to love him? - Would you rather have a woman who was hypnotized to love you without reason or thought or someone who loved you by choice? The act of choosing to love is the ultimate expression of that love.

Why does living as God wants you to give purpose? - Tough question to answer in this limited format. Also the third difficult question about my faith that I've been asked in the last two days. If you would like a more in depth answer feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I love God. I know what God has done for me out of love. I feel that it is the minimum I can do to dedicate my life for such a love especially when I know that that love is returned many many times.

Sphinx
User ID: 0638514 Nov 15th 6:03 PM
On perhaps a touch of a tangent, but certainly on topic: In a lot of ways I admire faith. I ask too many questions, pick too many holes in things, and no picture will ever quite fit. But then again, something within me tells me that that's the way things are, and aren't I better off knowing that?

Another way I look at religions is that if any one of the majority of them were absolutely right, all the others, as well as the atheists, would be wrong. It's confusing to me that that could happen. I find religious arguments more persuasive if you imagine God as a central figure, with all the religions gathered in a circle. Each religion sees a different profile, a different view of God, but it's the same God.

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Nov 15th 9:01 PM
I find that too, Spinx. Maybe its even meant to be that way, I don't know. I mean, maybe different peoples can see the different parts of God that it would be good for them to see at the time. No proof, just a possibility.

I also think that most religions do not contradict each other on the basic points such as "love your neighbor". Some of the apparent theological contradictions might not be contradictions at all if we could see past the three dimensions we live and think in. Well, just a thought.

Do you think "the seven" were a bit like seeing seven aspects of God?

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Nov 16th 6:44 AM
Isn't it stated outright in the books that the Seven indeed are seven aspects of the same God? I'm sure I read that somewhere...maybe in the Davos chapter, where Melisandre burns the Seven.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Nov 16th 6:56 AM
Kevin;

There's one thing I'm wondering...

Isn't it kinda weird for you to discuss your faith in an objective, detached manner like this?

I'm kinda envisioning it like being passionately in love with mr/ms Right, and then starting to discuss whether love is just a biologic reaction to serve the need of evolution of the species (or whatever).
I don't know, since I'm believing in any religion as such myself, but I think that's what I would have felt were I in your boots.

KAH
User ID: 9209903 Nov 16th 6:58 AM
That should read; ',since I'm _not_ believing in any religion...' - duh!

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Nov 16th 11:23 AM
It is not the easiest thing in the world KAH. If you love a girl and someone asks why, you can't just say, "sigh... She's wonderful". If you want the person to understand, you start to describe, "she's kind, intelligent, etc..." or you say how she makes you feel, or describe some of the events the two of you have done together.

I can't describe the love I feel but I can describe some of the periphials of that love. This topic wanders between philisophical and personal to me. I think that's probably true for most of us that follow this topic.

Sphinx
User ID: 0638514 Nov 18th 4:38 PM
I think Kay is right, Linda. I'm sure it says that somewhere.

You may be right about some of the basic parts of different religions not contradicting each other. But I think that organised religions, as they are presented for the main part, implicitly deny the possibility of the other religions being right. I can't think of two religions that could both be 100% right in all their tenets.

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Nov 18th 7:13 PM
I don't think of religion in terms of whether its "surface claims" are "right or wrong". Thus, obvious difference in the surface claims of different religions do not disturb me.

The religion of Septimism (I made that up :-) ) would seem to be an example. On the surface they are polytheists. However, this is just a way of symbolizing monotheism witn a many faceted Supreme Being.

Since humans can't really understand the divine as if they were divine, much can be thought of only in methphors, if at all, and nothing can be 100 percent certain. Nevertheless, there is faith.

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Dec 1st 12:32 PM
Darth where'd you go? I want to hear more of this worldview and the new worldview that you hold. I also want to hear about why you switched. Talk to us man!

Relic
User ID: 0714654 Dec 1st 8:01 PM
Kevin, as i stated in the Clash of Kings II Biblical Parralles topic, i dont think you can fully have respect for life if your sure there is an afterlife. I'll explain.

My main beef with religion is the fact that it gives people a false sense of security. Now once again this is not an attack on people who choose religion as thier focal point in life, just my opinion.

Some of man's biggest and important questions , ones that have been mussed and agrued and pondered over centuries, are very easily answered through religious beliefs. Why am I here? Whats the point of this existance? How could somone with self awarness not be part of a greater existance?

I dont have the answers to any of these questions. Religions believe they do. The belief in them is like having a huge quilt in the middle of winter, shelter from the cold. The questin is answered and there is no reason to search anymore.

Now take away religion, What do you have? A mass of confused scared human beings, aware that their time of self awarness is limited to their short life spans. No golden parachute, no heaven, no hell. Just death. COld, black and utterly devoid of any self awarness. The value of life is raised a thousandfold. Mortality is accepted, fully. Not in the false sense that we think of it now.

How would we function if that was the case? Im not sure, but i can see a world where mutual understanding and respect reigns supreme. After all why fuck around when your time os so short? Why toil in an office building when you can be enjoying the spectacular views that our planet provides us?

Kevin im curious, what are your views on the afterlife?

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Kevin User ID: 1766884	Nov 8th 7:35 PM The third part to the discussion on religion: Here are the last few posts:LindaElane User ID: 7733333 Nov 8th 4:46 PM I will admit I was not counting Chinese as polytheists. I really do not think that a majority are. Officially, most are atheists, millions belong to nonpolytheistic religions such as Chriatianity and Fulan Gong, Confucianism was never considered polytheistic, nor was Buddhism, and my Chinese friends tell me ancestor "worship" is not polytheism, if that was what the reference was to. Anyway, I am sure we are agreed that majority does not rule. There is a great deal of truth to the idea of living each day as if it were your last, I think, as long as that is counterbalanced with also living each day as if your actions could affect you and possibly others for all time. Rebecca User ID: 0303694 Nov 8th 6:49 PM Why must it be for all time? Why not live each day as if it were your last and live each day as if your actions could affect you and others for your lifetime (and theirs). I find that a lot more effective than trying to gauge whether my actions will get myself or others into some Paradise. In fact it's kind of ironic, don't you think, that religions tend to preach that no one knows the mind of God/the Gods, but presume to know what behavior will and will not reek the rewards or God/the Gods. Kevin User ID: 1766884 Nov 8th 7:27 PM Here's an example for you. If you are blind-folded and hold a donkey's tail in your hand. Your eternity relies on you hitting the donkey's butt that is somewhere around you. You can say that there is no donkey and sit back down on your stool and drink beer (in KAH's case, sit on the floor cause he's already had more than a few). You could blindly stab the tail into any surface that is near you. In this scenario, you don't think about it, you just push. In the last scenario, you could gather as much information as possible and the take your best guess and push. You would continue to study, listen, think to try to pinpoint your accuracy as much as possible. There is no way that we will be able to know exactly where the donkey is. The room is dark and we are blindfolded. There may not even be a donkey. The donkey may actually be 3 ducks, 2 chickens and a goat. If there is a donkey, the best path for finding it is to use your mind and not just trust to luck. Rebecca it doesn't have to be for all time but making the attempt IMO is better than not. If for no other reason than it gives purpose to life.
Kevin User ID: 1766884	Nov 8th 7:36 PM Another reason for believing in God that I have not yet given because it is not one you can debate is personal experience. I only bring it up now because belief in God is a decidedly personal decision and personal experiences play a large part in the decision making process.
DarthDarthBinks User ID: 1696934	Nov 8th 8:09 PM Belief in God is decidedly personal, and that is probably the best argument one can give in favor of faith. However, I would like to take issue with the statement that influencing others gives a purpose to life. Why must humans have some "purpose"? I don't buy the argument that humans have a 'telos' (??) or purpose like a tool. If we were made for some purpose by some being, then how would that make our lives meaningful? How would accomplishing specific life tasks bring about a rationale for life? It just all appears insignificant in comparison to the scope of time and size of space. Meaningfulness appears to be a function of the value we place on ourselves and others, rather than any external value placed by God/gods/nature. For the here and now it is important, but none of it will matter in a million years. PS. I don't get the donkey anecdote at all.
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Nov 8th 10:40 PM What if our purpose is something like "to fulfull our potential and help others do the same". I am not saying that I necessarily do or do not think that, I am just saying that it might be that. The other thing about purpose. For some people, i we are just going to die, what is the point of it all. Once we are dead, we will not know what happened in our life. So, to these people, life can have no personal purpose if we cease to exist at death. Sure, maybe it can have a purpose as far as helping others, but then those others won't know it either when they die. That sort of thinking will not be something everyone agrees with, but I would like to point out that it is one point of view. One view close to it is "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die". In other words, why behave "nobly" if "tomorrow we die"? There could be good purposes in life. If there is a God/Gods, then the divine would not necessarily come up with a purpose for us that we would not go along with. Just a thought. Another thought is that religion can bring great joy. There seems to be an assuption that it brings only bad on the part of some. Well, at least some have mentioned only bad things that it brings, I am not totally sure they feel it brings only bad.
Kevin User ID: 1766884	Nov 9th 12:19 PM Explanation of Donkey. I was just trying to show that there is no way to understand God. Therefore there are several approaches one can take. Not believe, believe blindly (use faith as a crutch not to think), or believe using your mind. I was also trying to point out that we are only guessing at what God is like. There could be no God, one God, many Gods, or God could be completely different than what we think. I believe that believing and using your mind is the best approach. Not because I think that I will ever completely understand God but because I may glean a better understanding of some small part. Darth I hope I didn't give the impression that I believe you must influence others to have a purpose. I believe that living my life the way God wants me to gives me purpose.
DarthDarthBinks User ID: 1696934	Nov 12th 8:41 PM Kevin, why does living as God wants you to give purpose? If the purpose of life is to please God, then why didn't god just create sycophants and people without free will? If the purpose of life is to _choose_ to do God's will, why is that meaningful. Why is following something else greater than oneself meaningful? How is that grand or fulfilling of one's own will? I don't see how believing in God brings any purpose to life at all. That is one of the main reasons I stopped believing in a christian concept of God. I could not reconcile how living eternally would somehow be purposeful, joyous, or useful.
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Nov 13th 11:04 AM Kevin has found that God gives him purpose in life. I take it on faith he does not have bad motives because he finds purpose in that and he is not lacking in intelligence because he finds purpose in that. However, so much in the world today says that religious people have bad motives and low intelligence that I certainly cannot blame people for asking. I do think that religious people are often modest and do not say, when confronted with accusations, "but I believe the purpose of life is love", because they are afraid someone would think they are trying to show how good they are. Darth, my belief is that dedicate oneself to love, to a higher purpose than one's self is meaningful. It is a matter of faith for me that it is meaningful. Thus, it cannot be proven. but I believe that learning to love is the purpose of life, and such learning comes through God, through whatever concept of God or a higher power a person has. Also, I don't deny that people can teach themselves to love without appeal to something greater than themselves, but it think its a pretty rough road to hoe. I am far from perfect and I often fail, so I am not trying to prove that I am a good person by saying I believe in striving to love. It is this striving that makes much of my purpose in life. (Note: It is assumed that I will take care of myself even though I try to go beyond just looking out for me.) I don't know much, but I think faith is believing in something even when so many circumstances on this little planet seem to scream at you that you are being naive and should not believe that. Its a voice inside that says love is the most important thing, so the giving of love is the purpose of life. For me, the voice inside also says that creation could not have arisen without a creator and the creation could only have purpose if God was love. I am afraid I cannot logically prove it. I defiantly choose to believe it in the face of whatever goes on in life. Note: I have shared my own opinions because we are discussing religion. I am not preaching, nor do I ask anyone to agree.
DarthDarthBinks User ID: 1696934	Nov 13th 7:33 PM Linda, I am not attempting to attack your faith, nor do I want to give that impression. I am simply stating some of the questions which about religion and faith which I couldn't answer. Thus, I stopped believing in religion. I don't question a religious person's intelligence; rather, I'd like to know how they have answered the questions that turned me off of faith. For me, faith was the last step built off a rational foundation of a worldview. However, when the worldview was exposed as lacking, the leap of faith no longer seemed rational, so I abandoned it. If anything, I seek to know how other people build up a rational edifice to make their own leap of faith. That is what is interesting in religion to me.
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Nov 13th 8:03 PM Darth: Nice post. I didn't think you were attacking, but I did think it possible that you found the "religious world view" somewhat intellectually lacking. Thanks for the clarification of something I obviously missed. I think faith could only be rational in the classical sense that Plato might have talked about what we now translate as "rational". I mean the word rational as in "Rational vs Empirical". Was that the type of rational you meant in talking about a rational edifice? Also I was not sure what you mean about "faith was the last step built off a rational foundation of a worldview." It sounds interesting though.
Kevin User ID: 0025534	Nov 14th 1:19 AM Darth I will attempt to answer what I perceive to be your questions from my point of view. The answers are not in the order asked but the order that is easiest to answer. Why is following something else greater than oneself meaningful? - I say all people religious or not strive to follow something greater than themselves. Women's rights, environment, public good are all examples of people finding causes greater than themselves to give meaning to their lives. Why do we do this? I don't know, I haven't taken enough psycology. Maybe it combats a feeling of aimless wandering. Why did God give us free will if he just wanted someone to love him? - Would you rather have a woman who was hypnotized to love you without reason or thought or someone who loved you by choice? The act of choosing to love is the ultimate expression of that love. Why does living as God wants you to give purpose? - Tough question to answer in this limited format. Also the third difficult question about my faith that I've been asked in the last two days. If you would like a more in depth answer feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I love God. I know what God has done for me out of love. I feel that it is the minimum I can do to dedicate my life for such a love especially when I know that that love is returned many many times.
Sphinx User ID: 0638514	Nov 15th 6:03 PM On perhaps a touch of a tangent, but certainly on topic: In a lot of ways I admire faith. I ask too many questions, pick too many holes in things, and no picture will ever quite fit. But then again, something within me tells me that that's the way things are, and aren't I better off knowing that? Another way I look at religions is that if any one of the majority of them were absolutely right, all the others, as well as the atheists, would be wrong. It's confusing to me that that could happen. I find religious arguments more persuasive if you imagine God as a central figure, with all the religions gathered in a circle. Each religion sees a different profile, a different view of God, but it's the same God.
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Nov 15th 9:01 PM I find that too, Spinx. Maybe its even meant to be that way, I don't know. I mean, maybe different peoples can see the different parts of God that it would be good for them to see at the time. No proof, just a possibility. I also think that most religions do not contradict each other on the basic points such as "love your neighbor". Some of the apparent theological contradictions might not be contradictions at all if we could see past the three dimensions we live and think in. Well, just a thought. Do you think "the seven" were a bit like seeing seven aspects of God?
KAH User ID: 9209903	Nov 16th 6:44 AM Isn't it stated outright in the books that the Seven indeed are seven aspects of the same God? I'm sure I read that somewhere...maybe in the Davos chapter, where Melisandre burns the Seven.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Nov 16th 6:56 AM Kevin; There's one thing I'm wondering... Isn't it kinda weird for you to discuss your faith in an objective, detached manner like this? I'm kinda envisioning it like being passionately in love with mr/ms Right, and then starting to discuss whether love is just a biologic reaction to serve the need of evolution of the species (or whatever). I don't know, since I'm believing in any religion as such myself, but I think that's what I would have felt were I in your boots.
KAH User ID: 9209903	Nov 16th 6:58 AM That should read; ',since I'm _not_ believing in any religion...' - duh!
Kevin User ID: 1766884	Nov 16th 11:23 AM It is not the easiest thing in the world KAH. If you love a girl and someone asks why, you can't just say, "sigh... She's wonderful". If you want the person to understand, you start to describe, "she's kind, intelligent, etc..." or you say how she makes you feel, or describe some of the events the two of you have done together. I can't describe the love I feel but I can describe some of the periphials of that love. This topic wanders between philisophical and personal to me. I think that's probably true for most of us that follow this topic.
Sphinx User ID: 0638514	Nov 18th 4:38 PM I think Kay is right, Linda. I'm sure it says that somewhere. You may be right about some of the basic parts of different religions not contradicting each other. But I think that organised religions, as they are presented for the main part, implicitly deny the possibility of the other religions being right. I can't think of two religions that could both be 100% right in all their tenets.
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Nov 18th 7:13 PM I don't think of religion in terms of whether its "surface claims" are "right or wrong". Thus, obvious difference in the surface claims of different religions do not disturb me. The religion of Septimism (I made that up :-) ) would seem to be an example. On the surface they are polytheists. However, this is just a way of symbolizing monotheism witn a many faceted Supreme Being. Since humans can't really understand the divine as if they were divine, much can be thought of only in methphors, if at all, and nothing can be 100 percent certain. Nevertheless, there is faith.
Kevin User ID: 1766884	Dec 1st 12:32 PM Darth where'd you go? I want to hear more of this worldview and the new worldview that you hold. I also want to hear about why you switched. Talk to us man!
Relic User ID: 0714654	Dec 1st 8:01 PM Kevin, as i stated in the Clash of Kings II Biblical Parralles topic, i dont think you can fully have respect for life if your sure there is an afterlife. I'll explain. My main beef with religion is the fact that it gives people a false sense of security. Now once again this is not an attack on people who choose religion as thier focal point in life, just my opinion. Some of man's biggest and important questions , ones that have been mussed and agrued and pondered over centuries, are very easily answered through religious beliefs. Why am I here? Whats the point of this existance? How could somone with self awarness not be part of a greater existance? I dont have the answers to any of these questions. Religions believe they do. The belief in them is like having a huge quilt in the middle of winter, shelter from the cold. The questin is answered and there is no reason to search anymore. Now take away religion, What do you have? A mass of confused scared human beings, aware that their time of self awarness is limited to their short life spans. No golden parachute, no heaven, no hell. Just death. COld, black and utterly devoid of any self awarness. The value of life is raised a thousandfold. Mortality is accepted, fully. Not in the false sense that we think of it now. How would we function if that was the case? Im not sure, but i can see a world where mutual understanding and respect reigns supreme. After all why fuck around when your time os so short? Why toil in an office building when you can be enjoying the spectacular views that our planet provides us? Kevin im curious, what are your views on the afterlife?