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A Song of Ice and Fire / Other Topics / Recommended Reading VII

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Ran
User ID: 0867924 Apr 13th 4:33 PM
There, that should be right. ;)

Thorfinn posted:

Just wanted to keep this up. I like reading what others recomend.

Hey, there is a website for Jakl of Nar.
www.tyrantsandkings.com

its pretty cool but, no meesage board. I've already sent him an e-mail saying how much I liked his book and he replied the next day! Check it out.

I'm going to buy Grand Design today (I have a 2 week business trip and that will keep me busy at night).

Ser Gary
User ID: 1502094 Apr 24th 8:37 AM
WeissVan, thanks so much for your comments concerning the Lonesome Dove saga. I just started Streets of Laredo. I do want to mention one thing to those of you have read it, though:

** SPOILERS **

Having read Lonesome Dove and familiarized myself with many of the characters, I find the marriage between Lorena and Pea Eye totally implausible. He had zero social skills, and despite her questionable background she was beautiful and had recently become educated. I've had a difficult time getting used to that union. Anyone else?

Kristin
User ID: 2776644 Apr 24th 7:42 PM
That was my reaction too, Ser Gary.

WeissVan
User ID: 7433983 Apr 26th 10:33 AM
Ser Gary and Kristin, regarding "Streets of Laredo", yeah it's a little implausible. Although, sometimes that's what happens... people get older and settle for "Pea Eyes" even though in their younger days, suitors such as Dish Boggett (one of my favorite characters from Lonesome Dove) were always at the door. But at any rate, as you read you get used to the union and it becomes a lovely thing.

Relic
User ID: 9308123 Apr 26th 6:28 PM
Just like Tolkein, Frank Herbert had a great impact on sci/fi and fantasy. I can think of at least three instances where Robert Jordan blantently ripped off of Herbert. And there are some similarites between characters from Dune and ASOIAF. If anyone missed this book, read it!

Dirjj
User ID: 6960173 Apr 27th 3:05 PM
Um Relic, Star Wars ripped of Herbert too.

ab

Markus
User ID: 3919194 Apr 27th 4:13 PM
Just let me recommend another author: Dorothy Dunnett. She writes mainly historical fiction, not fantasy, but I assume she would still sit very well with fantasy readers.

Her _Lymond Chroncicles_ and _House of Niccolo_ series are both very, very good in my opinion. In fact, I would even say that I would be very hard pressed to name a better series than these two, and I like to think I'm relatively well read in this field.:)

Both series can well be regarded as adventure story, psychological drama, romance and historical fiction in one. Both feature convincing and complex main characters and _very_ complex plots.

Lymond deals with the middle of the 16th century and features an absolutely brilliant and sometimes quite nasty protagonist who has to deal with a lot of historical personae of his time such as Mary Tudor, Maria Stuart, Elizabeth I., Ivan the Magnificent, Diane de Potiers, Henry II., Suleiman the Magnificent, Catherine de Medici and Nostradamus, to name a few. Of course he also deals with their different backgrounds and cultures and is involved in many an intrigue or fight.

The Lymond Chronicles is a six book series which starts with _The Game of Kings_.

Niccolo is set three generations earlier in the middle of the 15th century at the start of the Renaissance, and features another brilliant but flawed protagonist who has to deal with the problems, persons and especially opportunities of his time all over Europe, the Levant and Africa.

The House of Niccolo is an eight book series which starts with _Niccolo Rising_.

Kristin
User ID: 2776644 Apr 28th 8:30 AM
Thanks, Markus. I've been considering reading Dunnett for a while now and I'm glad to hear positive things about it. I think the only thing that's kept me from reading it so far is that the bookstore never seems to have the first one in stock.

Markus
User ID: 0366544 Apr 28th 9:28 AM
I'm glad to be of service, Kristin.;)

As for your bookstore, you could let them order it for you.;)

Throfinn
User ID: 9906923 May 3rd 1:50 PM
I've been reading the King's Blade's series by Dave Duncan and I find them a blast. Great writting and pretty much non-stop action. I disagree with a few things but, all in all it is very fun read. I really like how someone becomes a blade. Anyone read any of the books of this series?

ser wanksalot
User ID: 0860834 May 3rd 2:04 PM
i'd recommend 'the lion, the witch and the wardrobe' by c.s. lewis. they're fab!!!!!

i'd also recommend 'the joy of splurging off over 10 times a day' by Dr. J. Erkoff (he's russian, i think )
am i lowering the tone of the page? - oh dear!
**mock horror**

Ser Gary
User ID: 1523284 May 4th 9:17 AM
WeissVan,
I finished Streets of Laredo and never came to terms with the union of Pea Eye and Lorena. Like you, I also liked Dish Boggett. He truly loved Lorena from the get-go and seemed to have a lot more going for him than the dim-witted Pea Eye. Perhaps timing is everything. Dish happened along when Lorena seemed in a real funk and was immediately turned off by him. Pea happened along when she was downright desperate.

WeissVan
User ID: 8068153 May 4th 9:48 AM
Hey Ser Gary,
Ah well, hope you enjoyed the book anyway. I don't want to spoil anything, but I thought the ending was grandly tragic -- both the scene in the river and the ultimate fate of Capt. Call. The character of Maria and the cameo by John Wesley Hardin are great too. The numerous epilogues were a little quirky, but of course the last one was brilliant. Perhaps not as gripping as Martin, but McMurtry does have a knack for epic story, in my book.

Kristin
User ID: 7761613 May 8th 0:03 AM
Well, I'm in the middle of The Death of the Necromancer by Martha Wells. I'm really enjoying it, and would recommend it. I don't, however, recommend reading it right before falling asleep--it gave me the weirdest dreams.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 8th 6:21 AM
I _finally_ got my grubby hands on a piece of Gavriel Guy Kay's..."Sailing to Sarantium".

The characters were excellent, but it was a bit slow. Nice teaser in the end.

I'd like to hear from the GGK fans how this book rates compared to the rest he has written. Ran?

Ran
User ID: 9147853 May 8th 8:06 AM
It's different. It's rather more literary in some fashions. But the prose is top notch and the characters were, as you said, excellent. :)

The chief thing is, it truly fits the title of the series -- the Sarantine Mosaic. The book is really more like the first half of one book, and it's hard to judge it fairly as just one novel. Get _Lord of Emperors_, and together I think they add up to one of Kay's finest achievements (if not _the_ finest, which says a lot for him.)

The slow, careful setup that _StS_ provides prepares the way for a rather relentless setting down of tiles in _LoE_. :)

labor
User ID: 0798784 May 10th 7:03 PM
Yes, "Sarantine Mosaic" catapulted Kay to my N�2 favourite fantasy author, leaving GRRM beind, I'm sorry to say...

Anyway, I've been reading the first book of Vance's "Lyonesse" recently. I enjoyed it very much, although it is quite different - imagine a mix of Grimm's fairy tales (before they were purged of bloodthirstiness and sauciness, to be sure) and Mallory's "Morte d'Arthur" with some Machiavelli thrown in. And of course, Vance's incomparable atmosphere and sense of humor...

BTW, that's also an example of a very un-LOTR-like appoach to a fantasy series. IIRC we discussed it sometime. Anyway, there is no "saving of the world" to be found here, although it may still lurk behind the corner.
I wonder how many books there are in the series and whether they are as good as this first one.

Vance is IMHO a queer author - I hated his "Last Castle" and enjoyed "Emphyrio" for the most part, although when the action actually gets underway it is somewhat disappointing and I didn't like the ending. OTOH, there is more than 1/2 of a book of wondeful atmosphere and poetry, so action and story are of secondary importance.

Book 1 of Lyonesse is IMHO very good, OTOH.

Son of Hot Pie!!!
User ID: 0276214 May 11th 6:48 PM
I started with SONG OF ARBONNE but it moved
really slow for my tastes. Should I give it
another try or perhaps read a better book that
Kavriel has written?

Just got JACKAL OF NAR through Amazon. Looking
forward to reading that later.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 11th 6:56 PM
Try _The Lions of Al-Rassan_ first, I suppose. That one has a very strong pace.

I found _A Song for Arbonne_ a bit slow at frst myself. Something just didn't work for me the first time I read it, and I really can't recall more precisely what it was -- for all I know, I might jsut have been distracted by RL at the time.

But, boy, that second reading ... wow. Complete reversal. It's not my favorite GGK book, but it's one of my favorite fantasy novels, certainly.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 11th 7:11 PM
Speaking of books, I've forgotten to note that I've read _The Chosen_ by Ricardo Pinto recently, part of The Stone Dance of the Chameleon trilogy.

I'm going to go backwards with this review.

It's end is weak, the weakest thing in the book -- extremely predictable. I found the forced removal of the reader from sharing closely with the feelings of the main character, Carnelian, bothersome. I could understand it in something like Gene Wolfe's Long Sun series, what with Severian being a professional torturer, but Carnelian is an imminently humane young man by the standards of his culture -- in fact, too humane by those standards.

Because of that humanity, and the fact that Pinto does not seem intent on really focusing on philosophical portraits of interaction and social power-sharing (which are all subjects of the work, but not in a particularly academic fashion), it would have served better if Pinto allowed us into Carnelian's feelings rather more.

The social structure and world-building is quite good, on the other hand. There's a mixture of a lot of things -- Chinese court ceremonial, something of Pacific Islander language and mythology, a bit of New World glyphic writing script -- which come together in a rather dark, ugly, hierarchial world.

It's Pinto's first novel, so I'd cut it some slack for the failures I found in it. There's room to grow, and he does the disturbing, alien atmosphere thing well. He just needs to work on making the character of Carnelian more substantial and real, given the fact that he's not trying to make a point by alienating the reader from Carnelian's feelings to some degree.

Oh, and, he could have used better editing -- he does ramble and he does repeat himself on occassion. It's a very skimmable book at points, particularly since lots of it is description-laden travelogue (not my favorite thing in literature -- part of what ruined Hobb's third Farseer book for me.)

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Ran User ID: 0867924	Apr 13th 4:33 PM There, that should be right. ;) Thorfinn posted: Just wanted to keep this up. I like reading what others recomend. Hey, there is a website for Jakl of Nar. www.tyrantsandkings.com its pretty cool but, no meesage board. I've already sent him an e-mail saying how much I liked his book and he replied the next day! Check it out. I'm going to buy Grand Design today (I have a 2 week business trip and that will keep me busy at night).
Ser Gary User ID: 1502094	Apr 24th 8:37 AM WeissVan, thanks so much for your comments concerning the Lonesome Dove saga. I just started Streets of Laredo. I do want to mention one thing to those of you have read it, though: SPOILERS Having read Lonesome Dove and familiarized myself with many of the characters, I find the marriage between Lorena and Pea Eye totally implausible. He had zero social skills, and despite her questionable background she was beautiful and had recently become educated. I've had a difficult time getting used to that union. Anyone else?
Kristin User ID: 2776644	Apr 24th 7:42 PM That was my reaction too, Ser Gary.
WeissVan User ID: 7433983	Apr 26th 10:33 AM Ser Gary and Kristin, regarding "Streets of Laredo", yeah it's a little implausible. Although, sometimes that's what happens... people get older and settle for "Pea Eyes" even though in their younger days, suitors such as Dish Boggett (one of my favorite characters from Lonesome Dove) were always at the door. But at any rate, as you read you get used to the union and it becomes a lovely thing.
Relic User ID: 9308123	Apr 26th 6:28 PM Just like Tolkein, Frank Herbert had a great impact on sci/fi and fantasy. I can think of at least three instances where Robert Jordan blantently ripped off of Herbert. And there are some similarites between characters from Dune and ASOIAF. If anyone missed this book, read it!
Dirjj User ID: 6960173	Apr 27th 3:05 PM Um Relic, Star Wars ripped of Herbert too. ab
Markus User ID: 3919194	Apr 27th 4:13 PM Just let me recommend another author: Dorothy Dunnett. She writes mainly historical fiction, not fantasy, but I assume she would still sit very well with fantasy readers. Her _Lymond Chroncicles_ and _House of Niccolo_ series are both very, very good in my opinion. In fact, I would even say that I would be very hard pressed to name a better series than these two, and I like to think I'm relatively well read in this field.:) Both series can well be regarded as adventure story, psychological drama, romance and historical fiction in one. Both feature convincing and complex main characters and _very_ complex plots. Lymond deals with the middle of the 16th century and features an absolutely brilliant and sometimes quite nasty protagonist who has to deal with a lot of historical personae of his time such as Mary Tudor, Maria Stuart, Elizabeth I., Ivan the Magnificent, Diane de Potiers, Henry II., Suleiman the Magnificent, Catherine de Medici and Nostradamus, to name a few. Of course he also deals with their different backgrounds and cultures and is involved in many an intrigue or fight. The Lymond Chronicles is a six book series which starts with _The Game of Kings_. Niccolo is set three generations earlier in the middle of the 15th century at the start of the Renaissance, and features another brilliant but flawed protagonist who has to deal with the problems, persons and especially opportunities of his time all over Europe, the Levant and Africa. The House of Niccolo is an eight book series which starts with _Niccolo Rising_.
Kristin User ID: 2776644	Apr 28th 8:30 AM Thanks, Markus. I've been considering reading Dunnett for a while now and I'm glad to hear positive things about it. I think the only thing that's kept me from reading it so far is that the bookstore never seems to have the first one in stock.
Markus User ID: 0366544	Apr 28th 9:28 AM I'm glad to be of service, Kristin.;) As for your bookstore, you could let them order it for you.;)
Throfinn User ID: 9906923	May 3rd 1:50 PM I've been reading the King's Blade's series by Dave Duncan and I find them a blast. Great writting and pretty much non-stop action. I disagree with a few things but, all in all it is very fun read. I really like how someone becomes a blade. Anyone read any of the books of this series?
ser wanksalot User ID: 0860834	May 3rd 2:04 PM i'd recommend 'the lion, the witch and the wardrobe' by c.s. lewis. they're fab!!!!! i'd also recommend 'the joy of splurging off over 10 times a day' by Dr. J. Erkoff (he's russian, i think ) am i lowering the tone of the page? - oh dear! mock horror
Ser Gary User ID: 1523284	May 4th 9:17 AM WeissVan, I finished Streets of Laredo and never came to terms with the union of Pea Eye and Lorena. Like you, I also liked Dish Boggett. He truly loved Lorena from the get-go and seemed to have a lot more going for him than the dim-witted Pea Eye. Perhaps timing is everything. Dish happened along when Lorena seemed in a real funk and was immediately turned off by him. Pea happened along when she was downright desperate.
WeissVan User ID: 8068153	May 4th 9:48 AM Hey Ser Gary, Ah well, hope you enjoyed the book anyway. I don't want to spoil anything, but I thought the ending was grandly tragic -- both the scene in the river and the ultimate fate of Capt. Call. The character of Maria and the cameo by John Wesley Hardin are great too. The numerous epilogues were a little quirky, but of course the last one was brilliant. Perhaps not as gripping as Martin, but McMurtry does have a knack for epic story, in my book.
Kristin User ID: 7761613	May 8th 0:03 AM Well, I'm in the middle of The Death of the Necromancer by Martha Wells. I'm really enjoying it, and would recommend it. I don't, however, recommend reading it right before falling asleep--it gave me the weirdest dreams.
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 8th 6:21 AM I _finally_ got my grubby hands on a piece of Gavriel Guy Kay's..."Sailing to Sarantium". The characters were excellent, but it was a bit slow. Nice teaser in the end. I'd like to hear from the GGK fans how this book rates compared to the rest he has written. Ran?
Ran User ID: 9147853	May 8th 8:06 AM It's different. It's rather more literary in some fashions. But the prose is top notch and the characters were, as you said, excellent. :) The chief thing is, it truly fits the title of the series -- the Sarantine Mosaic. The book is really more like the first half of one book, and it's hard to judge it fairly as just one novel. Get _Lord of Emperors_, and together I think they add up to one of Kay's finest achievements (if not _the_ finest, which says a lot for him.) The slow, careful setup that _StS_ provides prepares the way for a rather relentless setting down of tiles in _LoE_. :)
labor User ID: 0798784	May 10th 7:03 PM Yes, "Sarantine Mosaic" catapulted Kay to my N�2 favourite fantasy author, leaving GRRM beind, I'm sorry to say... Anyway, I've been reading the first book of Vance's "Lyonesse" recently. I enjoyed it very much, although it is quite different - imagine a mix of Grimm's fairy tales (before they were purged of bloodthirstiness and sauciness, to be sure) and Mallory's "Morte d'Arthur" with some Machiavelli thrown in. And of course, Vance's incomparable atmosphere and sense of humor... BTW, that's also an example of a very un-LOTR-like appoach to a fantasy series. IIRC we discussed it sometime. Anyway, there is no "saving of the world" to be found here, although it may still lurk behind the corner. I wonder how many books there are in the series and whether they are as good as this first one. Vance is IMHO a queer author - I hated his "Last Castle" and enjoyed "Emphyrio" for the most part, although when the action actually gets underway it is somewhat disappointing and I didn't like the ending. OTOH, there is more than 1/2 of a book of wondeful atmosphere and poetry, so action and story are of secondary importance. Book 1 of Lyonesse is IMHO very good, OTOH.
Son of Hot Pie!!! User ID: 0276214	May 11th 6:48 PM I started with SONG OF ARBONNE but it moved really slow for my tastes. Should I give it another try or perhaps read a better book that Kavriel has written? Just got JACKAL OF NAR through Amazon. Looking forward to reading that later.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 11th 6:56 PM Try _The Lions of Al-Rassan_ first, I suppose. That one has a very strong pace. I found _A Song for Arbonne_ a bit slow at frst myself. Something just didn't work for me the first time I read it, and I really can't recall more precisely what it was -- for all I know, I might jsut have been distracted by RL at the time. But, boy, that second reading ... wow. Complete reversal. It's not my favorite GGK book, but it's one of my favorite fantasy novels, certainly.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 11th 7:11 PM Speaking of books, I've forgotten to note that I've read _The Chosen_ by Ricardo Pinto recently, part of The Stone Dance of the Chameleon trilogy. I'm going to go backwards with this review. It's end is weak, the weakest thing in the book -- extremely predictable. I found the forced removal of the reader from sharing closely with the feelings of the main character, Carnelian, bothersome. I could understand it in something like Gene Wolfe's Long Sun series, what with Severian being a professional torturer, but Carnelian is an imminently humane young man by the standards of his culture -- in fact, too humane by those standards. Because of that humanity, and the fact that Pinto does not seem intent on really focusing on philosophical portraits of interaction and social power-sharing (which are all subjects of the work, but not in a particularly academic fashion), it would have served better if Pinto allowed us into Carnelian's feelings rather more. The social structure and world-building is quite good, on the other hand. There's a mixture of a lot of things -- Chinese court ceremonial, something of Pacific Islander language and mythology, a bit of New World glyphic writing script -- which come together in a rather dark, ugly, hierarchial world. It's Pinto's first novel, so I'd cut it some slack for the failures I found in it. There's room to grow, and he does the disturbing, alien atmosphere thing well. He just needs to work on making the character of Carnelian more substantial and real, given the fact that he's not trying to make a point by alienating the reader from Carnelian's feelings to some degree. Oh, and, he could have used better editing -- he does ramble and he does repeat himself on occassion. It's a very skimmable book at points, particularly since lots of it is description-laden travelogue (not my favorite thing in literature -- part of what ruined Hobb's third Farseer book for me.)