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A Song of Ice and Fire / Other Topics / The Gift of Minds

Next 20 Messages

Swithin
User ID: 0909594 Apr 18th 1:48 AM
Well, the gift of women has been neglected and the gift of men is too embarassing to think about (although it's quite quite popular) so I think a different topic is in order: the gift of the mind.

As far as I see it, there are three kinds of people - those who value the ability to conceptualize (I originally wrote conceive - great mistake knowing this lot) the highest, those who value the abilities to think and act equally, and those who simply see life as a course of actions. We're all taught to respect the middle kind most... but is that where we truly end up?

Thoughts anyone? I'll join in when I have more time.

Relic
User ID: 9308123 Apr 18th 5:32 PM
Is self awarness a gift or a curse?

Greyjoy
User ID: 0860834 Apr 18th 8:00 PM
Good god, we need the next book out as quickly as possible!

Zer0hour
User ID: 1432154 Apr 18th 10:10 PM
What about people like me who think they are gods?

Relic
User ID: 9308123 Apr 18th 10:23 PM
You might be dissapointed then Zer0...whoa unless you really ARE a god.

Beavis Apr 18th 10:26 PM
I AM CORNHOLIO!!!!!!!

ARE YOU THREATNING ME??????!!!!!!!

Relic
User ID: 9308123 Apr 18th 10:53 PM
I hate to be the cynical asshole of the board, but uhh, shut up Bevis!

Snake
User ID: 0101764 Apr 19th 0:49 AM
I've consumed enormous amounts of Tequila( I don't know if I've even spelled that right) but I think that the mind is just a trap. Something that only gets you into trouble if you use it too often. Better to let things go. But ya gotta be strong.
Happy Halloween.

Relic
User ID: 9308123 Apr 19th 1:09 AM
See its not the mind that is a trap, i believe self awareness is a trap of sorts though. Why do i believe that? No one really cares and why am i typing? i dont know, but instead of taking Min's advice on thinking before you hit the submit button im just gonna do it

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Apr 24th 12:14 PM
Relic;

As a rule, self-awareness is not a curse.

The exception being Tori Spelling.

No, wait, extend that to the entire cast of 'Beverly Hills 90210'.

Sometimes, the world would have been so much better off, if some people had the self-awareness of an amoeba.

Sphinx
User ID: 8882983 Apr 25th 2:28 PM
Relic: Both, without doubt, but then most real blessings are.

Zer0hour: If you _think_ you're a god, you're not. You have to know...

Did anyone know that the highest College suicide rate is among Philosophy students?

Swithin
User ID: 0840444 Apr 25th 2:50 PM
HEY! I'm a philo student... And film... Oh shit, I have to watch out for myself, I'm out to get me!

Actually, if you think that you're a god, you are. Given that the definition of God is 'that above which there is nothing', then there can exist nothing which God does not know/incorporate. God is infinite, and not only that, he incorporates all the different forms of ifinity. Nothing can exist which is not in God, or hypothetically exist. And since God is everything, all at once, always, God is static - parts of God might be dynamic, but God is not limited by his dynamic parts. And since God is static and infinite, he is *fixed*. No will or consciousness (well, technically, ALL will and consciousness, but in a way which is non-signifying.) Then consider the mind, it is a material machine which creates the sense of consciousness. However, it is not only what is in the mind which defines the conscious experience, but also the external effects upon the mind, and since *everything* in existance has at least a slight effect on everything else (gravitational, etc...) consciousness is a representation of *everything* in existence! And since it is the only physical manifestation of the nature of God (for everything in existence also exists in God) then your consciousness is the will of the existing nature of God.

If you think you're a god, you are.

Zer0hour
User ID: 1432154 Apr 25th 3:58 PM
I don't think...I KNOW...

Jeff
User ID: 8813033 Apr 25th 6:43 PM
I think they also have the highest rate of unemployment. :-))

Swithin, I would say that your proof works only because of the specific definition of God you used.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Apr 26th 6:55 AM
Yeah, and what more is, you didn't specify _which_ God I will be!

I mean, if I'm Thor, the God of Thunder and Dragqueens, things are all right in Aasgaard.

But what if I'm Vidar, God of Tailors (!)???

All I'm supposed to do is to drag around an oversized shoe all the while to Ragnarok! That's not going to go well with my divine self esteem...

[sorry, I just couldn't help myself...]

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Apr 26th 9:05 AM
Kay-Arne, no offense, but I think its pretty clear you qualify as Loki.

I've never really figured out the deal with the third generation norse gods. Vidar's got that big shoe, but what's up with Vali, Modi, and Magni? They seem to lack any personality at all. I always did like the shoe thing, though. Weirdest "super power" of any god I can recall. I guess that shoe arguably could make him the god of "ass-kicking" as well.

And how about the guy who rides around on the that Golden Boar -- that's Frey, right? I've always thought that would look a bit ridiculous. I mean, riding around on the back of a pig? You'd think the guy at least could afford a mule or something.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Apr 29th 10:27 AM
Loke?

So, I'm going to give birth to an _eight_-legged horse, suffer acidic venom dripping on my face all the while to Ragnarok, only then to fall prey to that putz Heimdall?

Oh, _nice_ prospects, those...

About the third generation of Norse Gods...well, I don't know if I'd call V�le 'third generation'. Both he and Vidar are sons of Odin. And both of them are portrayed as _avengers_ - Vidar kills Fenris, and V�le kills Hod, Balder's _handbanir_.

Both of these survive Ragnarok, and I suppose they, together with the children, form the hope for the future when the old world goes bust.
Magne and Mode are to inherit Mjollne from Tor after Ragnarok.

Mode we don't hear squat about other than this (and the fact that he is Tor's son with Siv).

But Magne has a very small part in Tor's fight with the jotun _Rungne_. When Tor lies unconcious under the headless body of Rungne, only Magne is able to remove the heavy corpse that pins his father down. Not a small feat of a three day old infant. :o)

Frey, or Fr�y, rides a golden pig, yes.
The fact that it was dwarwen-made suggests it's great value.
And the ability to smile knowingly whenever someone scornfully says "Yeah, that'll happen when
pigs fly" helps a bit, too... :o)

Zer0hour
User ID: 1432154 Apr 29th 5:38 PM
Hehehe...Norse mythology rules!

Swithin
User ID: 1460434 Apr 30th 4:23 AM
Hey KAH, in Norway is his name spelt Surtr? He was always the second most striking of the mythological figures IMO (Odin makes the most sense out of life).

One question I've always had is this: Surt's wife Sinmora supposedly guards a sword (Laevateinn) made by Loki. Why does she have this sword? Why does she need this if Surt has a flaming sword of his own? Why would Loki give Surt or Sinmora yet another sword? For safe-keeping? Has anyone else heard of this? And what is the name of Surt's sword?

KAH
User ID: 0436494 Apr 30th 11:02 AM
Swithin;

Surt is IIRC the leader or the foremost of the creatures from Muspelheim, which is sort of a fiery dimension on the opposite side of Nivlheim, a foggy, dark dimension, with the 'real world' in between.

In Ragnarok, he is going to face (and slay) the god Fr�y, who lacks his own sword.
I do not recall if Surt's flaming sword was named anything, nor can I recall anything of him having another sword made by Loke.

Indeed, Surt doesn't have much of a role at all in Norse Mythology before Ragnarok, IIRC.

Next 20 Messages

Swithin User ID: 0909594	Apr 18th 1:48 AM Well, the gift of women has been neglected and the gift of men is too embarassing to think about (although it's quite quite popular) so I think a different topic is in order: the gift of the mind. As far as I see it, there are three kinds of people - those who value the ability to conceptualize (I originally wrote conceive - great mistake knowing this lot) the highest, those who value the abilities to think and act equally, and those who simply see life as a course of actions. We're all taught to respect the middle kind most... but is that where we truly end up? Thoughts anyone? I'll join in when I have more time.
Relic User ID: 9308123	Apr 18th 5:32 PM Is self awarness a gift or a curse?
Greyjoy User ID: 0860834	Apr 18th 8:00 PM Good god, we need the next book out as quickly as possible!
Zer0hour User ID: 1432154	Apr 18th 10:10 PM What about people like me who think they are gods?
Relic User ID: 9308123	Apr 18th 10:23 PM You might be dissapointed then Zer0...whoa unless you really ARE a god.
Beavis	Apr 18th 10:26 PM I AM CORNHOLIO!!!!!!! ARE YOU THREATNING ME??????!!!!!!!
Relic User ID: 9308123	Apr 18th 10:53 PM I hate to be the cynical asshole of the board, but uhh, shut up Bevis!
Snake User ID: 0101764	Apr 19th 0:49 AM I've consumed enormous amounts of Tequila( I don't know if I've even spelled that right) but I think that the mind is just a trap. Something that only gets you into trouble if you use it too often. Better to let things go. But ya gotta be strong. Happy Halloween.
Relic User ID: 9308123	Apr 19th 1:09 AM See its not the mind that is a trap, i believe self awareness is a trap of sorts though. Why do i believe that? No one really cares and why am i typing? i dont know, but instead of taking Min's advice on thinking before you hit the submit button im just gonna do it
KAH User ID: 0541004	Apr 24th 12:14 PM Relic; As a rule, self-awareness is not a curse. The exception being Tori Spelling. No, wait, extend that to the entire cast of 'Beverly Hills 90210'. Sometimes, the world would have been so much better off, if some people had the self-awareness of an amoeba.
Sphinx User ID: 8882983	Apr 25th 2:28 PM Relic: Both, without doubt, but then most real blessings are. Zer0hour: If you _think_ you're a god, you're not. You have to know... Did anyone know that the highest College suicide rate is among Philosophy students?
Swithin User ID: 0840444	Apr 25th 2:50 PM HEY! I'm a philo student... And film... Oh shit, I have to watch out for myself, I'm out to get me! Actually, if you think that you're a god, you are. Given that the definition of God is 'that above which there is nothing', then there can exist nothing which God does not know/incorporate. God is infinite, and not only that, he incorporates all the different forms of ifinity. Nothing can exist which is not in God, or hypothetically exist. And since God is everything, all at once, always, God is static - parts of God might be dynamic, but God is not limited by his dynamic parts. And since God is static and infinite, he is fixed. No will or consciousness (well, technically, ALL will and consciousness, but in a way which is non-signifying.) Then consider the mind, it is a material machine which creates the sense of consciousness. However, it is not only what is in the mind which defines the conscious experience, but also the external effects upon the mind, and since everything in existance has at least a slight effect on everything else (gravitational, etc...) consciousness is a representation of everything in existence! And since it is the only physical manifestation of the nature of God (for everything in existence also exists in God) then your consciousness is the will of the existing nature of God. If you think you're a god, you are.
Zer0hour User ID: 1432154	Apr 25th 3:58 PM I don't think...I KNOW...
Jeff User ID: 8813033	Apr 25th 6:43 PM I think they also have the highest rate of unemployment. :-)) Swithin, I would say that your proof works only because of the specific definition of God you used.
KAH User ID: 0541004	Apr 26th 6:55 AM Yeah, and what more is, you didn't specify _which_ God I will be! I mean, if I'm Thor, the God of Thunder and Dragqueens, things are all right in Aasgaard. But what if I'm Vidar, God of Tailors (!)??? All I'm supposed to do is to drag around an oversized shoe all the while to Ragnarok! That's not going to go well with my divine self esteem... [sorry, I just couldn't help myself...]
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Apr 26th 9:05 AM Kay-Arne, no offense, but I think its pretty clear you qualify as Loki. I've never really figured out the deal with the third generation norse gods. Vidar's got that big shoe, but what's up with Vali, Modi, and Magni? They seem to lack any personality at all. I always did like the shoe thing, though. Weirdest "super power" of any god I can recall. I guess that shoe arguably could make him the god of "ass-kicking" as well. And how about the guy who rides around on the that Golden Boar -- that's Frey, right? I've always thought that would look a bit ridiculous. I mean, riding around on the back of a pig? You'd think the guy at least could afford a mule or something.
KAH User ID: 0541004	Apr 29th 10:27 AM Loke? So, I'm going to give birth to an _eight_-legged horse, suffer acidic venom dripping on my face all the while to Ragnarok, only then to fall prey to that putz Heimdall? Oh, _nice_ prospects, those... About the third generation of Norse Gods...well, I don't know if I'd call V�le 'third generation'. Both he and Vidar are sons of Odin. And both of them are portrayed as _avengers_ - Vidar kills Fenris, and V�le kills Hod, Balder's _handbanir_. Both of these survive Ragnarok, and I suppose they, together with the children, form the hope for the future when the old world goes bust. Magne and Mode are to inherit Mjollne from Tor after Ragnarok. Mode we don't hear squat about other than this (and the fact that he is Tor's son with Siv). But Magne has a very small part in Tor's fight with the jotun _Rungne_. When Tor lies unconcious under the headless body of Rungne, only Magne is able to remove the heavy corpse that pins his father down. Not a small feat of a three day old infant. :o) Frey, or Fr�y, rides a golden pig, yes. The fact that it was dwarwen-made suggests it's great value. And the ability to smile knowingly whenever someone scornfully says "Yeah, that'll happen when pigs fly" helps a bit, too... :o)
Zer0hour User ID: 1432154	Apr 29th 5:38 PM Hehehe...Norse mythology rules!
Swithin User ID: 1460434	Apr 30th 4:23 AM Hey KAH, in Norway is his name spelt Surtr? He was always the second most striking of the mythological figures IMO (Odin makes the most sense out of life). One question I've always had is this: Surt's wife Sinmora supposedly guards a sword (Laevateinn) made by Loki. Why does she have this sword? Why does she need this if Surt has a flaming sword of his own? Why would Loki give Surt or Sinmora yet another sword? For safe-keeping? Has anyone else heard of this? And what is the name of Surt's sword?
KAH User ID: 0436494	Apr 30th 11:02 AM Swithin; Surt is IIRC the leader or the foremost of the creatures from Muspelheim, which is sort of a fiery dimension on the opposite side of Nivlheim, a foggy, dark dimension, with the 'real world' in between. In Ragnarok, he is going to face (and slay) the god Fr�y, who lacks his own sword. I do not recall if Surt's flaming sword was named anything, nor can I recall anything of him having another sword made by Loke. Indeed, Surt doesn't have much of a role at all in Norse Mythology before Ragnarok, IIRC.