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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Song of Ice and Fire / GRRM vs. RJ

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Sam
User ID: 2825394 Mar 23rd 3:24 PM
Robert Jordan is my number one serious, yes i think some of his books were lame(3,5 and especialy 7 and 8) but he still my favorite and GRRM is my third coming after Terry Goodkind. Yes I think robert jordan needs to shape up on the serious and I hope has for the nineth, only time will tell if he has, but I will buy when it comes out in hardback, same as I will buy Terry Goodkind and GRRM.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 Mar 23rd 3:31 PM
You rate Martin _after_ Goodkind?

*blinks*

Isn't there some law against that?

Trebla
User ID: 9990163 Mar 23rd 3:47 PM
GRRM whips Goodkind and makes RJ hold his jacket!! Seriously, I think Goodkind is awful. I'd rate LE Modessit Jr higher than him. GRRM is #1 closely follwed by RJ. And I am becoming a big fan on Tad Williams.

Ser Gary
User ID: 1523284 Mar 23rd 3:55 PM
To each his or her own, Sam. But jeez, Jordan AND Goodkind. Okaaaaaaaaaaaay. If you said Kay and Williams, then maybe you'd get a Tad bit of support from this group. But those two, uh...

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, Sam.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Mar 23rd 4:16 PM
Okay, might as well do my top 10 to make my view on this topic clear (which, in short, is that Jordan and Goodkind don't hold a candle to a lot of other authors, IMHO)

Ran's Top 10 Living Fantasy Authors

1) Guy Gavriel Kay
2) George R.R. Martin
3) Judith Tarr
4) Steven Brust
5) Stephen R. Donaldson
6) Glen Cook
7) Ursula K. LeGuin
8) C.S. Friedman
9) Robin Hobb
10) Jack Vance

Katherine Kerr isn't too bad, or Tad Williams, but I wouldn't jump to grab new fantasy from them. Of course, Friedman doesn't seem to be working much, and her last work was SF. Same with Donaldson, alas, though one holds out hope for the Third Chronicle of Thomas Covenant. Did enjoy his _Reave the Just_ anthology, though.

Aloriana
User ID: 1641184 Mar 23rd 5:32 PM
I'll admit that Martin is an excellent writer so far, but I'm a huge fan of Jordan's first two WOT novels. I'm afraid of long series brecause authors tend to get wordy and kind of boring. I think Tad Williams did a good thing by keeping Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn to only 3 books. Even book three was a little long. I've seen so many authors including my favorite (because Honor Harrington is so coooool) David Weber, get boring because they get side tracked into descriptions of situations or politics. The WOT series had such potential but now its just plain long and I don't understand why I'm spending $25 to read about one or two days in the lives of a few non-existant people. Unless the entire sorry takes only that long. Melanie Rawn does really good trilogies, or at least the first Dragon Prince trilogy was good, so is Ruins of Ambrai. I hope that Martin doesn't fall into the same rut that Jordan fell into. I want to see the conclusion of this story before I die.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Mar 23rd 5:50 PM
What, no Tolkien, Ran? Ah, you are just naming the living ones... Hm, I think that my list of my favourite 5 of 20th century fantasy would be:

1. Tolkien
2. Ray Bradbury - he is IMHO often mis-classified as SF, but actually mostly wrote/writes magical realism and fantasy.
3. Kay
4. Martin
5. Le Guin

I am not sure how I'd rank the others I like, i.e. Friedman, Hobb, Williams, etc.

Must re-read Tarr, BTW. Unfortunately I only own her "The Isle Of Glass" bought in the days of yore in a second-hand bookstore. I remember liking it, but never saw the rest of the series and for some reason didn't buy the Avaryan series when I had an opportunity. Alas...

And probably should have a closer look at Vance - I read one of his "Dying Earth" novels and wasn't impressed. Reccomendations?

Aloriana, IIRC Martin said that the fans can shoot him if he goes beyond 6 ;). Also, he said that the series will be actually constructed more like two consecutive trilogies, so even after ASOS there will be some sense of closure.

Min
User ID: 0074284 Mar 23rd 6:36 PM
Ran, _where_ is Tolkien???

OK, I'll give it a try... It's very close et the top, and more and more lengths between it the father I got...

- Tolkien
- Guy Gavriel Kay and George RR Martin (can't decide which I love more)
- Peter S. Beagle
- Neil Gaiman (novels and graphic novels both - no one tell me that's no literature!)
.
.
- Robin Hobb
- Tad Williams
- Michael Larrabeity (author of The Borribles
- Terry Pratchett (yes, him, too)
- Hans Bemmann (A German author you might not know)
Ans somewhere down the line:
- some of Marion Zimmer Bradley (she has written great and horrible stuff alike, I often wonder how just one author can change so much in the quality of his/her writing...)
- some of William Horwood
- some of T. H. White

All others are not real favorites of mine. I like them, but not necessarily love them.
Btw, after months of "recommended reading", I'm slowly catching up. I have bought Brust (the Phoenix Guards) and Kerr lately but had no time to read them yet. I am planning on Le Guin and OC Card. Perhaps some of them will make it into the top ten - if so many great people like them, there has to be something with them. :-)

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Mar 23rd 8:36 PM
Living authors, Min. :)

Tolkien is the #1 fantasy author in my book, but for the sake of discussion I limited the list to folk still writing new stuff.

Lord Fool
User ID: 1927154 Mar 23rd 8:45 PM
I still say Boo to you Ran for leaving out the Master. I like RJ more than Martin just because i have only read the two books in the series where as i have read amuch of RJ"S work that i can.

Aloriana
User ID: 1641184 Mar 23rd 9:48 PM
I never could get into Tolkien's stuff. Please, I'm not really a bad person for it, but, it just didn't talk to me.
RJ is a good writer and he has an exciting story to tell but he talks too much and you loose the plot in the details. Martin has kept the story rich with detail but he hasn't overdone it.

Dirjj
User ID: 0094674 Mar 24th 0:14 AM
I can't say who's better than who, as that's not fair to the authors who work their hides off to provide us with hours of literary enjoymen. I'll just note my favorites, and a favorite to me is an author who's books I continue to buy and read.
(Note: Of course I'll have a bias towards authors I'm reading at this time. Who knows, the list could differ next year. Heck I might even put that Kay fellow on it, but I choose not to read him because everyone here has put him on some sort of pedestal. Strange, as I'd never heard of him until this messageboard)

1. Tolkien
2. Frank Herbert
3. Jordan
3. Martin
4. Williams
5. Brooks
5. Zahn
6. Eddings
7. Feist
8. Hobb
9. Weis and or Weis/Hickman

ab

Min
User ID: 0074284 Mar 24th 3:56 AM
Ran, he _is_ alive. :-))
Lord Fool, I read all the WoT books so far, and just decided with the last one that it might end there. For there were only two or three of them good ones, and even if I had read a dozen of his books, they would not be able to weigh against the two ASoIaF books. Quantity cannot weigh more than quality, ever.

Alotiana, of course you're not a bad person for it. Bad taste, not ba person. ;-) Hey, I was _kidding_. :-) As Ser Gary said: To everyone his or her own. :-)

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Mar 24th 6:28 AM
Hrm. I'm probably being obtuse here, but J.R.R. Tolkien died in 1973. ;)

I agree on the quantity-quality thing. When I first read Jordan, I really rather liked EotW, but I can honestly say that GoT is superior. And CoK is far and away superior to _The Great Hunt_. That one didn't work for me at all when I read it. I did continue reading the series, though -- it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't very compelling, and I decided to give things another shot. Which was good. TDR was a good book.

I fully expect ASoS to beat it though.

Ser Gary
User ID: 1523284 Mar 24th 7:26 AM
Here's my top six:

1. Guy Gavriel Kay
2. GRRM
3. Tad Williams
4. JRR Tolkien
5. Stephen Donaldson
6. Robin Hobb

labor
User ID: 0798784 Mar 24th 10:55 AM
Ran, Tolkien lived, lives and will live forever! ;)

BTW, I rather liked some parts of TGH - i.e. Moraine's chapter, the story line of the girls and the ending.
I really disliked TDR, though. All of the main characters suddenly become able to kick major ass and that alone carries them through the book. Very sloppy writing, IMHO.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Mar 24th 11:38 AM
A very few parts were fine in TGH. I was not impressed with the going ons with the girls. Rand, on the other hand, was interesting. The Shienaran stuff worked fine, and the climax against the Seanchan and then Isamael.

TDR worked well for me because it was rather adventerous, though yes, the characters start becoming superheroes of sorts. Ahh well. ;)

Strategon
User ID: 0247944 Mar 24th 12:04 PM
By the way, I am starting to read Feists "Magician" soon ( I already bought the book). How is it?

Claidhaim
User ID: 8590713 Mar 24th 12:48 PM
I don't really read SF/F that much so my list will be somewhat shorter than everyone else's.

1. Steven Brust
2. George R.R.
3. Glenn Cook

Most of the other stuff I've read was just plain drivel stolen from somewhere else. Entertaining but I wouldn't read it again nor pay more than $5 for a book.

I haven't quite gotten around to picking up Kay yet. Every time I'm in the book store I pick it up, but don't get it. I wonder why? I must just not be as big a Fantasy Fan as the rest here....

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Mar 24th 12:49 PM
I thought it was worth a read. Without revealing too much, it does seem to follow a certain pattern regarding the evolution of the heroes that has been done a few too many times.

I really don't feel qualified to rank many fantasy authors. But some I've enjoyed, in something resembling an order of preference, are:

Tolkien
Martin
Orson Scott Card (1st 3 Alvin Maker series)
C.S. Friedman
L.E. Modesitt
Guy Gavriel Kay
Tad Williams

And I suppose the ones I've liked the least would be:

David Eddings
Douglas McKiernan
Terry Brooks

Funny, but I think Jordan belongs either in the "most liked" or "least liked" list. I just can't figure out which one.

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Sam User ID: 2825394	Mar 23rd 3:24 PM Robert Jordan is my number one serious, yes i think some of his books were lame(3,5 and especialy 7 and 8) but he still my favorite and GRRM is my third coming after Terry Goodkind. Yes I think robert jordan needs to shape up on the serious and I hope has for the nineth, only time will tell if he has, but I will buy when it comes out in hardback, same as I will buy Terry Goodkind and GRRM.
KAH User ID: 0541004	Mar 23rd 3:31 PM You rate Martin _after_ Goodkind? blinks Isn't there some law against that?
Trebla User ID: 9990163	Mar 23rd 3:47 PM GRRM whips Goodkind and makes RJ hold his jacket!! Seriously, I think Goodkind is awful. I'd rate LE Modessit Jr higher than him. GRRM is #1 closely follwed by RJ. And I am becoming a big fan on Tad Williams.
Ser Gary User ID: 1523284	Mar 23rd 3:55 PM To each his or her own, Sam. But jeez, Jordan AND Goodkind. Okaaaaaaaaaaaay. If you said Kay and Williams, then maybe you'd get a Tad bit of support from this group. But those two, uh... Well, you're entitled to your opinion, Sam.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Mar 23rd 4:16 PM Okay, might as well do my top 10 to make my view on this topic clear (which, in short, is that Jordan and Goodkind don't hold a candle to a lot of other authors, IMHO) Ran's Top 10 Living Fantasy Authors 1) Guy Gavriel Kay 2) George R.R. Martin 3) Judith Tarr 4) Steven Brust 5) Stephen R. Donaldson 6) Glen Cook 7) Ursula K. LeGuin 8) C.S. Friedman 9) Robin Hobb 10) Jack Vance Katherine Kerr isn't too bad, or Tad Williams, but I wouldn't jump to grab new fantasy from them. Of course, Friedman doesn't seem to be working much, and her last work was SF. Same with Donaldson, alas, though one holds out hope for the Third Chronicle of Thomas Covenant. Did enjoy his _Reave the Just_ anthology, though.
Aloriana User ID: 1641184	Mar 23rd 5:32 PM I'll admit that Martin is an excellent writer so far, but I'm a huge fan of Jordan's first two WOT novels. I'm afraid of long series brecause authors tend to get wordy and kind of boring. I think Tad Williams did a good thing by keeping Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn to only 3 books. Even book three was a little long. I've seen so many authors including my favorite (because Honor Harrington is so coooool) David Weber, get boring because they get side tracked into descriptions of situations or politics. The WOT series had such potential but now its just plain long and I don't understand why I'm spending $25 to read about one or two days in the lives of a few non-existant people. Unless the entire sorry takes only that long. Melanie Rawn does really good trilogies, or at least the first Dragon Prince trilogy was good, so is Ruins of Ambrai. I hope that Martin doesn't fall into the same rut that Jordan fell into. I want to see the conclusion of this story before I die.
labor User ID: 0798784	Mar 23rd 5:50 PM What, no Tolkien, Ran? Ah, you are just naming the living ones... Hm, I think that my list of my favourite 5 of 20th century fantasy would be: 1. Tolkien 2. Ray Bradbury - he is IMHO often mis-classified as SF, but actually mostly wrote/writes magical realism and fantasy. 3. Kay 4. Martin 5. Le Guin I am not sure how I'd rank the others I like, i.e. Friedman, Hobb, Williams, etc. Must re-read Tarr, BTW. Unfortunately I only own her "The Isle Of Glass" bought in the days of yore in a second-hand bookstore. I remember liking it, but never saw the rest of the series and for some reason didn't buy the Avaryan series when I had an opportunity. Alas... And probably should have a closer look at Vance - I read one of his "Dying Earth" novels and wasn't impressed. Reccomendations? Aloriana, IIRC Martin said that the fans can shoot him if he goes beyond 6 ;). Also, he said that the series will be actually constructed more like two consecutive trilogies, so even after ASOS there will be some sense of closure.
Min User ID: 0074284	Mar 23rd 6:36 PM Ran, _where_ is Tolkien??? OK, I'll give it a try... It's very close et the top, and more and more lengths between it the father I got... - Tolkien - Guy Gavriel Kay and George RR Martin (can't decide which I love more) - Peter S. Beagle - Neil Gaiman (novels and graphic novels both - no one tell me that's no literature!) . . - Robin Hobb - Tad Williams - Michael Larrabeity (author of The Borribles - Terry Pratchett (yes, him, too) - Hans Bemmann (A German author you might not know) Ans somewhere down the line: - some of Marion Zimmer Bradley (she has written great and horrible stuff alike, I often wonder how just one author can change so much in the quality of his/her writing...) - some of William Horwood - some of T. H. White All others are not real favorites of mine. I like them, but not necessarily love them. Btw, after months of "recommended reading", I'm slowly catching up. I have bought Brust (the Phoenix Guards) and Kerr lately but had no time to read them yet. I am planning on Le Guin and OC Card. Perhaps some of them will make it into the top ten - if so many great people like them, there has to be something with them. :-)
Ran User ID: 0867924	Mar 23rd 8:36 PM Living authors, Min. :) Tolkien is the #1 fantasy author in my book, but for the sake of discussion I limited the list to folk still writing new stuff.
Lord Fool User ID: 1927154	Mar 23rd 8:45 PM I still say Boo to you Ran for leaving out the Master. I like RJ more than Martin just because i have only read the two books in the series where as i have read amuch of RJ"S work that i can.
Aloriana User ID: 1641184	Mar 23rd 9:48 PM I never could get into Tolkien's stuff. Please, I'm not really a bad person for it, but, it just didn't talk to me. RJ is a good writer and he has an exciting story to tell but he talks too much and you loose the plot in the details. Martin has kept the story rich with detail but he hasn't overdone it.
Dirjj User ID: 0094674	Mar 24th 0:14 AM I can't say who's better than who, as that's not fair to the authors who work their hides off to provide us with hours of literary enjoymen. I'll just note my favorites, and a favorite to me is an author who's books I continue to buy and read. (Note: Of course I'll have a bias towards authors I'm reading at this time. Who knows, the list could differ next year. Heck I might even put that Kay fellow on it, but I choose not to read him because everyone here has put him on some sort of pedestal. Strange, as I'd never heard of him until this messageboard) 1. Tolkien 2. Frank Herbert 3. Jordan 3. Martin 4. Williams 5. Brooks 5. Zahn 6. Eddings 7. Feist 8. Hobb 9. Weis and or Weis/Hickman ab
Min User ID: 0074284	Mar 24th 3:56 AM Ran, he _is_ alive. :-)) Lord Fool, I read all the WoT books so far, and just decided with the last one that it might end there. For there were only two or three of them good ones, and even if I had read a dozen of his books, they would not be able to weigh against the two ASoIaF books. Quantity cannot weigh more than quality, ever. Alotiana, of course you're not a bad person for it. Bad taste, not ba person. ;-) Hey, I was _kidding_. :-) As Ser Gary said: To everyone his or her own. :-)
Ran User ID: 0867924	Mar 24th 6:28 AM Hrm. I'm probably being obtuse here, but J.R.R. Tolkien died in 1973. ;) I agree on the quantity-quality thing. When I first read Jordan, I really rather liked EotW, but I can honestly say that GoT is superior. And CoK is far and away superior to _The Great Hunt_. That one didn't work for me at all when I read it. I did continue reading the series, though -- it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't very compelling, and I decided to give things another shot. Which was good. TDR was a good book. I fully expect ASoS to beat it though.
Ser Gary User ID: 1523284	Mar 24th 7:26 AM Here's my top six: 1. Guy Gavriel Kay 2. GRRM 3. Tad Williams 4. JRR Tolkien 5. Stephen Donaldson 6. Robin Hobb
labor User ID: 0798784	Mar 24th 10:55 AM Ran, Tolkien lived, lives and will live forever! ;) BTW, I rather liked some parts of TGH - i.e. Moraine's chapter, the story line of the girls and the ending. I really disliked TDR, though. All of the main characters suddenly become able to kick major ass and that alone carries them through the book. Very sloppy writing, IMHO.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Mar 24th 11:38 AM A very few parts were fine in TGH. I was not impressed with the going ons with the girls. Rand, on the other hand, was interesting. The Shienaran stuff worked fine, and the climax against the Seanchan and then Isamael. TDR worked well for me because it was rather adventerous, though yes, the characters start becoming superheroes of sorts. Ahh well. ;)
Strategon User ID: 0247944	Mar 24th 12:04 PM By the way, I am starting to read Feists "Magician" soon ( I already bought the book). How is it?
Claidhaim User ID: 8590713	Mar 24th 12:48 PM I don't really read SF/F that much so my list will be somewhat shorter than everyone else's. 1. Steven Brust 2. George R.R. 3. Glenn Cook Most of the other stuff I've read was just plain drivel stolen from somewhere else. Entertaining but I wouldn't read it again nor pay more than $5 for a book. I haven't quite gotten around to picking up Kay yet. Every time I'm in the book store I pick it up, but don't get it. I wonder why? I must just not be as big a Fantasy Fan as the rest here....
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Mar 24th 12:49 PM I thought it was worth a read. Without revealing too much, it does seem to follow a certain pattern regarding the evolution of the heroes that has been done a few too many times. I really don't feel qualified to rank many fantasy authors. But some I've enjoyed, in something resembling an order of preference, are: Tolkien Martin Orson Scott Card (1st 3 Alvin Maker series) C.S. Friedman L.E. Modesitt Guy Gavriel Kay Tad Williams And I suppose the ones I've liked the least would be: David Eddings Douglas McKiernan Terry Brooks Funny, but I think Jordan belongs either in the "most liked" or "least liked" list. I just can't figure out which one.