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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Song of Ice and Fire / Information from GRRM (III)

Next 20 Messages

labor
User ID: 0798784 May 31st 3:05 PM
<
<<Is Marei (the girl at Chataya's) Tyrion's daughter by Tysha (my only evidence is that she is about the right age, green eyes, and silver-blonde hair)?>>

If she was Tyrion's daughter, I'd hardly be likely to reveal it in a letter. Sorry.
>

I really wonder if Emilie is on to something here. I mean, why didn't Martin just say "no"? OTOH, IIRC Barra's mother was the youngest whore at Chataya's and she was 14-15. For Marei to be Tyrion's he'd have to be in his late twenties (28-29) and somehow I don't think that Cersei would remember her mother's sayings if she was only about 4 or 5 when Lady Joanna died...

I become more and more convinced that there was a child of Tyrion's and Tysha's. Martin is not Jordan to torment us so, I think that he'd tell Emilie that such a child doesn't exist if that was the case...

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 31st 3:25 PM
I never thought I ever was going to say this, but...

Truth to tell, I'm starting to wonder if GRRM tells us _too_ much.
If GRRM tells us everything that can be safely said without spoiling anything/much, and starts to get all foggy on the issues that could not, it's almost tantamount to say 'it has significance/you're on to something' flat out.

If I was him, I think I might consider telling us less...

labor
User ID: 0798784 May 31st 3:38 PM
Blasphemy, KAH! It is so delicious to get those snippets. Also, we may well be "on to" something, but we never really know on _what_! It gives us stuff for speculations. The wait between the books would be extremely dull indeed without all that info. Anyway, the whole Tysha thing had to come out somehow and the child is an obvious way to do it.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 May 31st 3:48 PM
I agree, to some degree, KAH (ugh, rhyme.)

If he ducks a question, he generally wants to leave it ... well, a question for the books. He's always shown a very firm interest in leaving some things for the books, but he doesn't fallback on leaving things for the books often.

Further, he's shown a distinct desire to not get himself involved in settling plot discussions. The things he tends to settle for us are more detail oriented -- character ages, military numbers, thematic bits, and so on. But actual plot arguments aren't going to be resolved by him unless it's approached sidewise.

For instance, I think it'll be easy to get him to answer on if Sandor personally killed Myceah, which may have implications on some of our deeper character discussions, while I think it'd be improbable to get him to answer directly something like "Does the Hound love Sansa?"

In this particular case, I think it has to do with how the question was phrased by Emilie. It's a little direct, and GRRM might have decided to make a point of noting that he really wouldn't answer that sort of question, because either way, it's going to impact someone's theory in an obvious way.

I'll wager that if he were asked, "Will we see Marei, the girl in Chataya's brothel, again?", he'd give an answer either yea or nay.

KAH
User ID: 0541004 May 31st 4:04 PM
labor;

Well, unless Ran's correct, and your reasoning in the first post is wrong, we _do_ know 'what' he didn't tell us; in this specific case, at least.

You said it yourself - if there wasn't something to Emilie's suggestion, Martin would just have said 'no'.
(unless he has a certain policy of being foggy about such direct questions).

LindaElane
User ID: 0276214 May 31st 10:41 PM
I think the reason he answered as he did is that it would be important if that was the girl's identity. He wants to say that he does not give important spoilers out in letters. It does not mean that this is an important spoiler. It means not to ask him things where the answer would be an important spoiler, because he is not going to answer in a letter.

Jeff
User ID: 8813033 Jun 1st 7:58 AM
I tend to agree with Kay-Arne. One thing that has slipped is that we won't see another POV from Robb. A heck of a prediction _if_ Robb is to survive all 6 books. Not hard to predict if he dies. And Theon's POV being dropped. Even if it doesn't mean that he's dead, it certainly tells us that we won't see him too active in ASOS. I'd rather not know.

Moreta
User ID: 0701364 Jun 1st 2:23 PM
On the contrary, Robb not having his POV doesn't mean anything. Joffrey, Stannis, Renly, and Balon didn't have POVs. They're all kings. I think that GRRM wanted to show Robb and those kings as how people perceive them. It's actually more interesting that way.

Besides, I want any bit of information that GRRM's willing to part with :)

Arend
User ID: 9941493 Jun 2nd 8:20 AM
I think GRRM is a good enough writer that even with all his hints and comments he will manage to surprise us. Of course, if we hit the nail on the head in one of our discussions, I would have a feeling of accomplishment, not of "I already knew that", when I finally get to read the book.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Jun 2nd 9:04 AM
Moreta and Arend, I am with you. It is generally quite a chore to read an ongoing series, particulary ones longer than a trilogy (in fact, I have resolved to avoid it as much as possible, unless the author is really brilliant).Having those little hints to fuel one's speculation and imagination certainly alleviates much of unpleasantness inherent in waiting until the new book gets written/published.

And I don't really want to be surprised in a sense of being totally ignorant of the new book's storyline. In fact, I try to read the story outline before I get my hands on a book, to be able to enjoy the writing insted of madly rushing ahead to learn how a particular storyline was resolved.
I want to be surprised by the author's imagination, by the skill inherent into turning the story into unexpected, yet internally plausible directions, etc. And with GRRM, if my guesses turn to be right, I'll be glad and proud.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Jun 2nd 1:16 PM
I guess I should revise my prior opinion, give GRRM a little more credit as a writer, and trust him not to reveal anything of real importance. He does manage to surprise us on a pretty consistent basis. And he does it rationally, in the context of the story, not through unjustiable plot twists.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 9th 2:04 PM
The SSM collection has finally been updated. Been so busy with the heraldry that it slipped. Now there are seven new messages (81-87).

Two from Green Gerg (GRRM saying the book was set for July on the 31st of May, and discussing the new maps), one from Benjen (filled with names of the new secondary characters), the rest from me (minor stuff really -- the practice of quartering arms with maternal arms, relative sizes of the five cities GRRM's mentioned so far, the simplicity of Northerner arms and names, trivial stuff on a couple of houses.)

Lodengarl
User ID: 1822634 Jun 9th 2:13 PM
What is your e-mail address Ran, I have tons of e-mails from GRRM and wanted to send them in...are you looking for only those e-mails that further aSoIaF discussion??

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 9th 2:35 PM
Primarily, lodengarl, though if you've things that refers to GRRM's touring dates, the publication of the books, things about past books, it'd be cool.

And the e-mail is [email protected]. :)

I see the URL for the page hasn't been provided in this thread yet, so I'll toss it in here for those who are wondering what the heck we're talking about:

www.westeros.org/Heraldry/SoSpakeMartin.html

Turtle
User ID: 9551723 Jun 9th 2:43 PM
I got an interesting one - I just recieved a message from Martin about a book that hasn't been written - the book he abandonned in order to write aSoIaF. He said he didn't know whether he will write it. It was to be called AVALON.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 9th 2:48 PM
That was a science fiction book, wasn't it? I think he discussed it in one of his interviews with Amazon.

Lucky us that he chose to go with ASoIaF's insistence on being his main project. ;)

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Jun 9th 2:58 PM
Ack! I'm a big anti-Arthurian guy, and the title "Avalon" gives me the shivers.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be so _unique_ to have someone write about Arthur, Guinevere, and Lancelot? I mean, no one's ever done _that_ before, huh?

I'll give Martin enough credit to assume that, since its a work of SF, it wouldn't be that same story that every hack in the world has taken a stab at.

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Jun 10th 6:35 AM
Oh no, I don't think it'll be about Camelot... He told me it would have been part of his Future History, and If I'm not mistaken, Avalon is the name of one of the worlds.

Ran - I'm not sure. Actuallty, no matter how great ASoIaF is, everything he writes is really great, too... so I'm pretty indifferent to what it is.
Although, to be sure, there is a special spot in my heart for Tyrion Lannister

haaruk Jun 11th 12:52 PM
As an aside Ran. Were you able to ask Martin a question concerning Sandor and Micah by indirect mode?

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Jun 11th 1:09 PM
As of yet, no. Stuck mostly asking heraldry stuff. However, got a couple I'm working on and was thinking of trying to ask the question among one or two others. :)

Next 20 Messages

labor User ID: 0798784	May 31st 3:05 PM < <<Is Marei (the girl at Chataya's) Tyrion's daughter by Tysha (my only evidence is that she is about the right age, green eyes, and silver-blonde hair)?>> If she was Tyrion's daughter, I'd hardly be likely to reveal it in a letter. Sorry. > I really wonder if Emilie is on to something here. I mean, why didn't Martin just say "no"? OTOH, IIRC Barra's mother was the youngest whore at Chataya's and she was 14-15. For Marei to be Tyrion's he'd have to be in his late twenties (28-29) and somehow I don't think that Cersei would remember her mother's sayings if she was only about 4 or 5 when Lady Joanna died... I become more and more convinced that there was a child of Tyrion's and Tysha's. Martin is not Jordan to torment us so, I think that he'd tell Emilie that such a child doesn't exist if that was the case...
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 31st 3:25 PM I never thought I ever was going to say this, but... Truth to tell, I'm starting to wonder if GRRM tells us _too_ much. If GRRM tells us everything that can be safely said without spoiling anything/much, and starts to get all foggy on the issues that could not, it's almost tantamount to say 'it has significance/you're on to something' flat out. If I was him, I think I might consider telling us less...
labor User ID: 0798784	May 31st 3:38 PM Blasphemy, KAH! It is so delicious to get those snippets. Also, we may well be "on to" something, but we never really know on _what_! It gives us stuff for speculations. The wait between the books would be extremely dull indeed without all that info. Anyway, the whole Tysha thing had to come out somehow and the child is an obvious way to do it.
Ran User ID: 0867924	May 31st 3:48 PM I agree, to some degree, KAH (ugh, rhyme.) If he ducks a question, he generally wants to leave it ... well, a question for the books. He's always shown a very firm interest in leaving some things for the books, but he doesn't fallback on leaving things for the books often. Further, he's shown a distinct desire to not get himself involved in settling plot discussions. The things he tends to settle for us are more detail oriented -- character ages, military numbers, thematic bits, and so on. But actual plot arguments aren't going to be resolved by him unless it's approached sidewise. For instance, I think it'll be easy to get him to answer on if Sandor personally killed Myceah, which may have implications on some of our deeper character discussions, while I think it'd be improbable to get him to answer directly something like "Does the Hound love Sansa?" In this particular case, I think it has to do with how the question was phrased by Emilie. It's a little direct, and GRRM might have decided to make a point of noting that he really wouldn't answer that sort of question, because either way, it's going to impact someone's theory in an obvious way. I'll wager that if he were asked, "Will we see Marei, the girl in Chataya's brothel, again?", he'd give an answer either yea or nay.
KAH User ID: 0541004	May 31st 4:04 PM labor; Well, unless Ran's correct, and your reasoning in the first post is wrong, we _do_ know 'what' he didn't tell us; in this specific case, at least. You said it yourself - if there wasn't something to Emilie's suggestion, Martin would just have said 'no'. (unless he has a certain policy of being foggy about such direct questions).
LindaElane User ID: 0276214	May 31st 10:41 PM I think the reason he answered as he did is that it would be important if that was the girl's identity. He wants to say that he does not give important spoilers out in letters. It does not mean that this is an important spoiler. It means not to ask him things where the answer would be an important spoiler, because he is not going to answer in a letter.
Jeff User ID: 8813033	Jun 1st 7:58 AM I tend to agree with Kay-Arne. One thing that has slipped is that we won't see another POV from Robb. A heck of a prediction _if_ Robb is to survive all 6 books. Not hard to predict if he dies. And Theon's POV being dropped. Even if it doesn't mean that he's dead, it certainly tells us that we won't see him too active in ASOS. I'd rather not know.
Moreta User ID: 0701364	Jun 1st 2:23 PM On the contrary, Robb not having his POV doesn't mean anything. Joffrey, Stannis, Renly, and Balon didn't have POVs. They're all kings. I think that GRRM wanted to show Robb and those kings as how people perceive them. It's actually more interesting that way. Besides, I want any bit of information that GRRM's willing to part with :)
Arend User ID: 9941493	Jun 2nd 8:20 AM I think GRRM is a good enough writer that even with all his hints and comments he will manage to surprise us. Of course, if we hit the nail on the head in one of our discussions, I would have a feeling of accomplishment, not of "I already knew that", when I finally get to read the book.
labor User ID: 0798784	Jun 2nd 9:04 AM Moreta and Arend, I am with you. It is generally quite a chore to read an ongoing series, particulary ones longer than a trilogy (in fact, I have resolved to avoid it as much as possible, unless the author is really brilliant).Having those little hints to fuel one's speculation and imagination certainly alleviates much of unpleasantness inherent in waiting until the new book gets written/published. And I don't really want to be surprised in a sense of being totally ignorant of the new book's storyline. In fact, I try to read the story outline before I get my hands on a book, to be able to enjoy the writing insted of madly rushing ahead to learn how a particular storyline was resolved. I want to be surprised by the author's imagination, by the skill inherent into turning the story into unexpected, yet internally plausible directions, etc. And with GRRM, if my guesses turn to be right, I'll be glad and proud.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Jun 2nd 1:16 PM I guess I should revise my prior opinion, give GRRM a little more credit as a writer, and trust him not to reveal anything of real importance. He does manage to surprise us on a pretty consistent basis. And he does it rationally, in the context of the story, not through unjustiable plot twists.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 9th 2:04 PM The SSM collection has finally been updated. Been so busy with the heraldry that it slipped. Now there are seven new messages (81-87). Two from Green Gerg (GRRM saying the book was set for July on the 31st of May, and discussing the new maps), one from Benjen (filled with names of the new secondary characters), the rest from me (minor stuff really -- the practice of quartering arms with maternal arms, relative sizes of the five cities GRRM's mentioned so far, the simplicity of Northerner arms and names, trivial stuff on a couple of houses.)
Lodengarl User ID: 1822634	Jun 9th 2:13 PM What is your e-mail address Ran, I have tons of e-mails from GRRM and wanted to send them in...are you looking for only those e-mails that further aSoIaF discussion??
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 9th 2:35 PM Primarily, lodengarl, though if you've things that refers to GRRM's touring dates, the publication of the books, things about past books, it'd be cool. And the e-mail is [email protected]. :) I see the URL for the page hasn't been provided in this thread yet, so I'll toss it in here for those who are wondering what the heck we're talking about: www.westeros.org/Heraldry/SoSpakeMartin.html
Turtle User ID: 9551723	Jun 9th 2:43 PM I got an interesting one - I just recieved a message from Martin about a book that hasn't been written - the book he abandonned in order to write aSoIaF. He said he didn't know whether he will write it. It was to be called AVALON.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 9th 2:48 PM That was a science fiction book, wasn't it? I think he discussed it in one of his interviews with Amazon. Lucky us that he chose to go with ASoIaF's insistence on being his main project. ;)
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Jun 9th 2:58 PM Ack! I'm a big anti-Arthurian guy, and the title "Avalon" gives me the shivers. On the other hand, wouldn't it be so _unique_ to have someone write about Arthur, Guinevere, and Lancelot? I mean, no one's ever done _that_ before, huh? I'll give Martin enough credit to assume that, since its a work of SF, it wouldn't be that same story that every hack in the world has taken a stab at.
Omer User ID: 9551723	Jun 10th 6:35 AM Oh no, I don't think it'll be about Camelot... He told me it would have been part of his Future History, and If I'm not mistaken, Avalon is the name of one of the worlds. Ran - I'm not sure. Actuallty, no matter how great ASoIaF is, everything he writes is really great, too... so I'm pretty indifferent to what it is. Although, to be sure, there is a special spot in my heart for Tyrion Lannister
haaruk	Jun 11th 12:52 PM As an aside Ran. Were you able to ask Martin a question concerning Sandor and Micah by indirect mode?
Ran User ID: 0867924	Jun 11th 1:09 PM As of yet, no. Stuck mostly asking heraldry stuff. However, got a couple I'm working on and was thinking of trying to ask the question among one or two others. :)