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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Song of Ice and Fire / Robert and Cersei

Rania
User ID: 0631424 Sep 2nd 0:33 AM
Someone, Tyrion IIRC, says that if Cersei and Robert had had at least one child the incest story would have been much harder to claim ....
I somehow think it would have been the exact opposite, since Robert and Cersei's child would have looked nothing like his half-brothers and sisters .

labor
User ID: 0798784 Sep 2nd 3:32 AM
Jon and Arya look nothing like the rest of the Stark children. Princess Rhaenys looked salt Dornish while Prince Aegon had Targaryen coloring.

Besides, why would Robert's and Cersei's child look "nothing" like his half-siblings? Cersei would be still the mother, no? And most children are a blending of their parents' physical characteristics. At the very least the child might have had green eyes.

Cersei having some children taking after her wouldn't have been suspicious (i.e. 4 of Cat's children take after her). It is the absence of Robert's characteristics in any of them that is.

BTW, it seems pretty evident by now that Robert would have been a bad father even to the children resembling him.

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Sep 2nd 5:16 AM
I don't think so. For a King, he probably wouldhave been a pretty decent father. Cersei made everythign in her power to make Joff hate Robert, but she might not have done that had he really been Robert's father. Also Joffrey might not have been a sadist.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Sep 2nd 9:10 AM
Well, Joff is clearly very disturbed and no amount of good parenting probably could have completely corrected that. And it is most likely the consequence of the incest, too.

However, not only didn't Robert try to approach Tommen and Myrcella, who didn't hate them, Stannis also remarks on his almost complete indifference to his real baseborn children, too, however much they resembled him. He says that Robert liked the "making" of children well enough, but had no use for them afterwards. And we know for a fact that Robert neglected to provide a few of his bastards with any sort of livelihood whatsoever.

See also Robert's treatment of his squires. No, there is no indication whatsoever that Robert would have been "decent" father, trueborn children or no. And history teems with examples of princes hating their royal fathers, sometimes on their mother's instigations. IMHO Cersei would have done even more to make Robert's true child hate him.

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Sep 2nd 10:09 AM
Well, I wouldn't take Stannis's words in face value.. after all, he has very little love for his brother.

Rania
User ID: 0631424 Sep 2nd 10:53 AM
Labor,
What I dont understand is what does good parenting or lack of it from Robert have to do with the discussion?
Granted Robert was not a good parent nor was Cersei if you think about it.

labor
User ID: 0798784 Sep 2nd 11:27 AM
Omer, Stannis gives their due even to the people he doesn't love. He tries to be truthful and just.

Rania, little enough. I just remembered that someone claimed somewhere that Robert was such a bad father because Cersei's children weren't his in truth and didn't physically resemble him ;).

Rania
User ID: 0631424 Sep 2nd 2:09 PM
Oh, then I agree with you in the sense that even if he had had his own kids he wouldn't have been a bad father.
But then again, we hear of how Cersei stopped him from having anything to do with "his" children.
He did try to discipline Joffrey after the cat incident. Maybe he gave up after that.

Hodor
User ID: 0819174 Sep 3rd 4:47 AM
Cersei said that when he put his finger in his bastards mouth they sucked it whereas Joffrey merely cried.Also,the kids dont resemble him at all.Joffrey is a liar and a coward and Robert hate these kind of people.Tommen is spoiled,and Myrcella is...cant find anthing wrong with her.

KAH
User ID: 1278884 Sep 6th 8:40 AM
Rania;

Robert tried to discipline Joffrey after the cat incident? Sounds more like he tried to take his head off.
Sure, Joffrey had it coming, but good parenting it is not.

amf
User ID: 9704903 Sep 10th 3:59 AM
I think it was in Cersei's interest to have Joffery dependent on her and thus estranged from everyone else. She would let Jaime get close to the children either. The children were the one thing that she felt she had clear title to, and if there is ever an example of bad parenting, surely that is it!

Perhaps Robert would have been a lousy father, but with a woman interested in including him in the parenting of the heir (a very different state of affairs to a bastard from a mother who was oftimes barely known) he may have turned out differently.

I never liked Joffery, not even for a moment, and it takes some viciousness to do that. Even with Tommen we have some feelings for him, so I think Cersei did quite a job from day one, making sure that the next king would be hers and hers alone.

She's lucked out with Tommen. She was so intense with Joffery that Tommen had to be neglected in comparison, and neglect by Cersei could only be a good thing!

amf

amf
User ID: 9704903 Sep 10th 6:45 AM
It's meant to read 'she wouldn't let Jaime' sorry! misleading typo...

Rania User ID: 0631424	Sep 2nd 0:33 AM Someone, Tyrion IIRC, says that if Cersei and Robert had had at least one child the incest story would have been much harder to claim .... I somehow think it would have been the exact opposite, since Robert and Cersei's child would have looked nothing like his half-brothers and sisters .
labor User ID: 0798784	Sep 2nd 3:32 AM Jon and Arya look nothing like the rest of the Stark children. Princess Rhaenys looked salt Dornish while Prince Aegon had Targaryen coloring. Besides, why would Robert's and Cersei's child look "nothing" like his half-siblings? Cersei would be still the mother, no? And most children are a blending of their parents' physical characteristics. At the very least the child might have had green eyes. Cersei having some children taking after her wouldn't have been suspicious (i.e. 4 of Cat's children take after her). It is the absence of Robert's characteristics in any of them that is. BTW, it seems pretty evident by now that Robert would have been a bad father even to the children resembling him.
Omer User ID: 9551723	Sep 2nd 5:16 AM I don't think so. For a King, he probably wouldhave been a pretty decent father. Cersei made everythign in her power to make Joff hate Robert, but she might not have done that had he really been Robert's father. Also Joffrey might not have been a sadist.
labor User ID: 0798784	Sep 2nd 9:10 AM Well, Joff is clearly very disturbed and no amount of good parenting probably could have completely corrected that. And it is most likely the consequence of the incest, too. However, not only didn't Robert try to approach Tommen and Myrcella, who didn't hate them, Stannis also remarks on his almost complete indifference to his real baseborn children, too, however much they resembled him. He says that Robert liked the "making" of children well enough, but had no use for them afterwards. And we know for a fact that Robert neglected to provide a few of his bastards with any sort of livelihood whatsoever. See also Robert's treatment of his squires. No, there is no indication whatsoever that Robert would have been "decent" father, trueborn children or no. And history teems with examples of princes hating their royal fathers, sometimes on their mother's instigations. IMHO Cersei would have done even more to make Robert's true child hate him.
Omer User ID: 9551723	Sep 2nd 10:09 AM Well, I wouldn't take Stannis's words in face value.. after all, he has very little love for his brother.
Rania User ID: 0631424	Sep 2nd 10:53 AM Labor, What I dont understand is what does good parenting or lack of it from Robert have to do with the discussion? Granted Robert was not a good parent nor was Cersei if you think about it.
labor User ID: 0798784	Sep 2nd 11:27 AM Omer, Stannis gives their due even to the people he doesn't love. He tries to be truthful and just. Rania, little enough. I just remembered that someone claimed somewhere that Robert was such a bad father because Cersei's children weren't his in truth and didn't physically resemble him ;).
Rania User ID: 0631424	Sep 2nd 2:09 PM Oh, then I agree with you in the sense that even if he had had his own kids he wouldn't have been a bad father. But then again, we hear of how Cersei stopped him from having anything to do with "his" children. He did try to discipline Joffrey after the cat incident. Maybe he gave up after that.
Hodor User ID: 0819174	Sep 3rd 4:47 AM Cersei said that when he put his finger in his bastards mouth they sucked it whereas Joffrey merely cried.Also,the kids dont resemble him at all.Joffrey is a liar and a coward and Robert hate these kind of people.Tommen is spoiled,and Myrcella is...cant find anthing wrong with her.
KAH User ID: 1278884	Sep 6th 8:40 AM Rania; Robert tried to discipline Joffrey after the cat incident? Sounds more like he tried to take his head off. Sure, Joffrey had it coming, but good parenting it is not.
amf User ID: 9704903	Sep 10th 3:59 AM I think it was in Cersei's interest to have Joffery dependent on her and thus estranged from everyone else. She would let Jaime get close to the children either. The children were the one thing that she felt she had clear title to, and if there is ever an example of bad parenting, surely that is it! Perhaps Robert would have been a lousy father, but with a woman interested in including him in the parenting of the heir (a very different state of affairs to a bastard from a mother who was oftimes barely known) he may have turned out differently. I never liked Joffery, not even for a moment, and it takes some viciousness to do that. Even with Tommen we have some feelings for him, so I think Cersei did quite a job from day one, making sure that the next king would be hers and hers alone. She's lucked out with Tommen. She was so intense with Joffery that Tommen had to be neglected in comparison, and neglect by Cersei could only be a good thing! amf
amf User ID: 9704903	Sep 10th 6:45 AM It's meant to read 'she wouldn't let Jaime' sorry! misleading typo...