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A Song of Ice and Fire / A Song of Ice and Fire / The shadows around Arya ans Sansa

Hodor
User ID: 0819174 Sep 5th 4:17 AM
In AGoT there's this chapter with Bran's dream/prophecy and he see Arya and Sansa surounded by 3 shadows.One with a dog face one golden and one with an armour made of stone or something.what do you think it means?

Min
User ID: 0394114 Sep 5th 7:01 AM
First thought: Another one for Haaruk's number three theory. :-)
The dog-face could be Sandor. I am pretty sure Sandor is one of them, either the first or the last one. Golden could stand, in a way, for the Lannisters. It could be some things we cannot know yet, too, things to come yet only in GRRM's mind...

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Sep 5th 11:45 AM
I think the gold armor sounds like Joffrey and the dog like Sandor.

The stone? That's an interesting one. I just checked the quote (p. 162-163 U.S. paperback) and its "Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood."

Nasty. Could it be Winterfell? Stone "armor", blood from the Bastard's treason? Don't know.

Don't know what to make of that.

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Sep 5th 11:52 AM
I used to think that it was the Mountain that Rides -- stone armor and darkness and thick black blood fits him just right. This would suggest that, in way or another, he's going to be important to the fate of the Starks (and he's part of the reason all this mess happened), and more particularly shall be having some sort of run in with Jaime...

But others noted that this could be Robert. I don't know about that one, myself -- it seems too strong an image, "darkness and thick black blood."

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Sep 6th 7:10 AM
[Spoilers edited out]

Arend posted:

Well, the three loomed over _both_ Arya and Sansa. Sandor has tormented both Arya and Sansa (Arya's playmate in aGoT, his behavior during the siege of KL, etc.); gold stands for the Lannisters, I'm sure, but I don't have the book here, so I don't know if it is any particular Lannister; the Mountain has loomed only over Arya, but not Sansa as far as I can recall - that detail bothers me a bit. Of course the Cleganes are bannermen of the Lannisters, so it seems a very heavy image, like hitting the reader over the head with it.

But that is a stylistic quibble maybe.

KAH
User ID: 1278884 Sep 6th 9:06 AM
As I pointed out on Dragonsworn, I'm of the mind that the stone giant refers to Robert.

Robert was _there_ (unlike the Mountain, if I'm not mistaken), which I think is significant.
Also, I think the 'looming' part refers to the two 'shadows' (i.e. Jamie and Sandor), and _not_ Arya and Sansa.

In other words, the looming part refers to Robert as the supposed just king, the strong king who shields the realm from the lurking killers like Jaime and Sandor Clegane - the shadows.

The giant in stone armor is meant to reinforce this impression - but when you go underneath the surface ('open the visor'), you see that Robert is unable to do this - he is a _failure_, and hence dangerous both to himself and those friendly to him, which is what the 'darkness' and the 'blood' refers too.

Ran thinks that last is too strong an image for Robert, and admittedly it seems a little off, but I still think it fits better than anyone else...

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Sep 6th 12:04 PM
I concur, I stipulate, I agree,

Alexaendra
User ID: 1509104 Sep 8th 7:43 PM
I think the dog is Sandor the gold is either Joff or Jaime and the stone is Lord Tywin and/or the Lannisters. Remember the quote, "Some say there is naught but stone at the heart of Casterly Rock"? Catelyn said that to Robb in GoT when they were at Moat Cailin.

~Alexaendra

Ilyena
User ID: 1390494 Sep 11th 3:17 AM
I thought that the stone giant was Littlefinger. He was the one yanking the strings in King's Landing (thus "looming" over Sandor & Joffrey) and he certainly has enough darkness and blood on/within him.

And Sansa's supposed to slay a giant, so it'd be symmetrical. ;)

Hodor User ID: 0819174	Sep 5th 4:17 AM In AGoT there's this chapter with Bran's dream/prophecy and he see Arya and Sansa surounded by 3 shadows.One with a dog face one golden and one with an armour made of stone or something.what do you think it means?
Min User ID: 0394114	Sep 5th 7:01 AM First thought: Another one for Haaruk's number three theory. :-) The dog-face could be Sandor. I am pretty sure Sandor is one of them, either the first or the last one. Golden could stand, in a way, for the Lannisters. It could be some things we cannot know yet, too, things to come yet only in GRRM's mind...
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Sep 5th 11:45 AM I think the gold armor sounds like Joffrey and the dog like Sandor. The stone? That's an interesting one. I just checked the quote (p. 162-163 U.S. paperback) and its "Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood." Nasty. Could it be Winterfell? Stone "armor", blood from the Bastard's treason? Don't know. Don't know what to make of that.
Ran User ID: 0743024	Sep 5th 11:52 AM I used to think that it was the Mountain that Rides -- stone armor and darkness and thick black blood fits him just right. This would suggest that, in way or another, he's going to be important to the fate of the Starks (and he's part of the reason all this mess happened), and more particularly shall be having some sort of run in with Jaime... But others noted that this could be Robert. I don't know about that one, myself -- it seems too strong an image, "darkness and thick black blood."
Ran User ID: 0743024	Sep 6th 7:10 AM [Spoilers edited out] Arend posted: Well, the three loomed over _both_ Arya and Sansa. Sandor has tormented both Arya and Sansa (Arya's playmate in aGoT, his behavior during the siege of KL, etc.); gold stands for the Lannisters, I'm sure, but I don't have the book here, so I don't know if it is any particular Lannister; the Mountain has loomed only over Arya, but not Sansa as far as I can recall - that detail bothers me a bit. Of course the Cleganes are bannermen of the Lannisters, so it seems a very heavy image, like hitting the reader over the head with it. But that is a stylistic quibble maybe.
KAH User ID: 1278884	Sep 6th 9:06 AM As I pointed out on Dragonsworn, I'm of the mind that the stone giant refers to Robert. Robert was _there_ (unlike the Mountain, if I'm not mistaken), which I think is significant. Also, I think the 'looming' part refers to the two 'shadows' (i.e. Jamie and Sandor), and _not_ Arya and Sansa. In other words, the looming part refers to Robert as the supposed just king, the strong king who shields the realm from the lurking killers like Jaime and Sandor Clegane - the shadows. The giant in stone armor is meant to reinforce this impression - but when you go underneath the surface ('open the visor'), you see that Robert is unable to do this - he is a _failure_, and hence dangerous both to himself and those friendly to him, which is what the 'darkness' and the 'blood' refers too. Ran thinks that last is too strong an image for Robert, and admittedly it seems a little off, but I still think it fits better than anyone else...
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Sep 6th 12:04 PM I concur, I stipulate, I agree,
Alexaendra User ID: 1509104	Sep 8th 7:43 PM I think the dog is Sandor the gold is either Joff or Jaime and the stone is Lord Tywin and/or the Lannisters. Remember the quote, "Some say there is naught but stone at the heart of Casterly Rock"? Catelyn said that to Robb in GoT when they were at Moat Cailin. ~Alexaendra
Ilyena User ID: 1390494	Sep 11th 3:17 AM I thought that the stone giant was Littlefinger. He was the one yanking the strings in King's Landing (thus "looming" over Sandor & Joffrey) and he certainly has enough darkness and blood on/within him. And Sansa's supposed to slay a giant, so it'd be symmetrical. ;)