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The Bible and Mormon Writings—My Questions.........
Bible: Although the exact site is unknown, the garden of Eden was probably in the
Mesopotamian region by the Euphrates River.—Genesis 2:11-14.
Doctrine and Covenants: Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri,
U.S.A.—Doctrine and Covenants 57, as explained by President J. F. Smith.
Bible: The soul dies.—Ezekiel 18:4; Acts 3:23.
The Book of Mormon: "The soul could never die."—Alma 42:9.
Bible: Jesus was born in Bethlehem.—Matthew 2:1-6.
The Book of Mormon: Jesus was to be born in Jerusalem.—Alma 7:10.
Bible: Jesus was begotten by holy spirit.—Matthew 1:20.
Journal of Discourses: Jesus was not begotten by holy spirit. He was begotten in the flesh
by Adam’s having intercourse with Mary.—Journal of Discourses, Volume I, pages
50-1.
Bible: New Jerusalem to be in heaven.—Revelation 21:2.
The Book of Mormon: New Jerusalem, earthly, to be built by men in Missouri, U.S.A.—3
Nephi 21:23, 24; Doctrine and Covenants 84:3, 4.
Bible: Writers of the Bible were inspired to write God’s thoughts.—2 Peter 1:20,
21.
The Book of Mormon: Its prophets are said to have written according to their own
knowledge.—1 Nephi 1:2, 3; Jacob 7:26.
Bible: Mosaic Law, including tithing, terminated by the death of Jesus. Contributions are
to be voluntary, not under compulsion.—2 Corinthians 9:7; Galatians 3:10-13, 24, 25;
Ephesians 2:15.
Doctrine and Covenants: "Verily it is . . . a day for the tithing of my people; for
he that is tithed shall not be burned (at his [the Lord’s]
coming)."—Doctrine and Covenants 64:23.
Dear Bill
thanks for writing.
Regarding the garden of Eden like you wrote according to the Bible the exact site is
unknown, according to the lds church is located in Jackson county Missouri, if by the
Bible you could prove different you are welcome, when you write "probably" in
Mesopotamian region has the same meaning for me like you are probably thinking for Jackson
County. My question at this point is what is your problem here, knowing where the garden
of Eden was, can it change your point of view regarding the Gospel ? I mean I don't
understand what is could be the deal we have here our questionable point of view and on
the other side all the other churches don't know where is the garden of Eden, so even
though our opinion would be wrong we would be in the same positions of the other churches
or not?
Regarding the souls, my friend if you believe in the resurrection you should maintain that
the soul never die in the sense that our souls will live forever and if it is true what
the Bible maintain (resurrection for everybody) tell me when the soul die. Have you ever
read that Jesus was preaching the Gospel during the 3 days before to be resurrected, do
you know where He was in that particular time? He was preaching the Gospel to the dead, so
the soul never die. Thank you for the question.
Did you know that Bethlem is part of Jerusalem? I am born in Prato a little town ten miles
away from Florence but when people ask me what city I am from I usually say Florence
because it is know everywhere in the world, If I say Prato I should explain many other
things, either when people ask me where I am living now usually I say Phoenix not Mesa. I
am pretty sure that Joseph Smith knew perfectly that Jesus was born in Bethlemm everybody
knows that so he didn't that mistake but it was just the way Lehi thought like I am
thinking about my old city.
Regarding the New Jerusalem we believe that Melchisedec and his city were taken from the
earth and we believe that at the end of days like the Zion of Enoch will be back on earth,
so the New Jerusalem mentioned in 3 Nephi is just another one to be build on earth like
place of gathering and it has anything to do with that one mentioned in Revelation. It is
like you want answers for the book of Mormon or doctrine and covenants and you don't
accept them, could an Hebrew accept the resurrection or Jesus by the new testament?
Not always the writers of the Bible wrote by inspiration sometimes they wrote by their own
opinion like the persons you mentioned I Corinthians 7:25 otherwise how it would have been
possible to have so many mistakes in the Bible, if you want a list of them let me know.
Regarding the tithing there are two things that you should consider, first of all Jesus
supported the Tithing and the law, it is true that part of the law was over but not all
the law was terminated, even if you maintain that the tithing was part of the law
terminated you should remember that The Tithing was not invented with the Law of Moses,
Abraham was paying it before of the Law, so it was something extra law, even it was
included in the law. Also have you ever read about the restoration of all things
prophesied in the Bible before the second coming of the Lord?
Acts 3:20-21
probably you don't know but the Journal of discourses is not scripture for us and what you
wrote about Adam and Jesus is not correct probably you should read the Bible because it is
very clear on that Luke 1:35
see the scripture is saying that Jesus would be named Son of God, not son of the Holy
spirit, think about it and please remember is in the Bible I am sure you accept the Bible,
probably you forget that Jesus was pleased to refer Himself like Son of Man, instead of
Son of God, because He knew what kind of being was His personal Father a glorified Man.
You assume LDS doctrine that all humans are sons and daughters
>of God. But even honest LDS scholars have noted that the Bible does
>not teach this.
>
>Please quote scriptures for this idea.
Take, for instance, John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them
that believe on his NAME.
On my opinion here it is speaking for this life, after the fallen the mankind became
selfish,sensual and devilish, in fact the scripture clearly declare even to them that
believe on his NAME. anyway think about this John 10:33-36
Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye
are brethren.
question
You can read the LDS scholars in "Line Upon Line" published by Signature Books.
In that volume it is noted that the typical LDS appeal to Acts 17, for example, is faulty.
I am thankful to see some LDS admitting the inaccuracy of their traditional
interpretations.
answer
Lds scholars are not the scriptures, I could quote different Protestants that interpret
the scriptures in different way and that has nothing to do with the scriptures, opinions
of the people, anyway I have found a very good scripture Acts 17:23-29 here Paul is
speaking to the Greeks no to believers and his declaration is sharp
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO
THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Acts 17:24
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and
earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth
to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts 17:26
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the
earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts 17:27
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him,
though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 17:28
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets
have said, For we are also his offspring.
Acts 17:29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead
is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Sorry but I guess this is final in the topic.
Question: Why some prophesies of Joseph Smith were not and are not fulfilled?
I like your question I want to give some examples from the Bible 2 King 20:1
In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to
him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die,
and not live.
We have the sentence of God Himself, but the prophecy was not fulfilled because the King
did something that made God change His mind. In the case of the Temple we have the answer
in the same doctrine and covenants that the saint did something that made God change his
mind. Probably you won't accept this idea and that is not a problem, I believe that one
day the church will be the temple there, it is only a matter of time. I know probably you
are smiling now but see sometimes the promises of God don't fulfill right away, neither
His prophesies. I will give you something to think about. God promise to give the
Palestine to Abraham. Did he possess that ground during his lifetime? Hebrew 11:8-13
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive
for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in
tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11
Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a
child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12
Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the
sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13
These all died in faith, NOT HAVING received the promises, but having seen them afar off,
and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and
pilgrims on the earth.
But I have another case in which God Himself made a prophecy that what fulfilled about 500
years later.
Genesis 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:
yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
God made this declaration a lot time before of the flood, strangely before that this
declaration became in force had to pass about 500 years, in fact Noah that was living at
that time lived other 400 years, Sem about 500 years, Arpaxad that was born after the
flood lived 438, Salah 433, Eber that lived after the death of Se and Abraham 464 Peleg
239 Reu 239 Serug 230 and Nahor 148 Terah 205 Abraham 175. Well are you ready to judge God
Himself, my dear friend, Why His word was not in force right the way? Because His ways are
not your ways or my ways. So my friend consider that many prophecies in the old and new
testament are not fulfilled, consider that God like in the Case of Ninive or the King
Ezechia for certain reason can change his mind, sure because in the meantime something
happens, you will say that God Knows the future and I agree, but He has to give to the
mankind the way to repent or to be proven, so even though He knows what will happen He has
to give us the opportunity to change our mind, like in the case of Ninive (Jonas was angry
for that) or in the case of Ezechia. If the saints were good surely they would be able to
build the Temple like the Hebrew would have received the first set of tables. God is bound
when the people do what he desire, but when they don't obey they lose all the promises.
Chester Kempston wrote
And I do
think that you should compare Joseph Smith to Jesus,
because He is the standard for living. And if someone
does not live up to that standard then he cannot be a
Christian.
Dear friend
if I have to compare Joseph to Jesus, I should do that for everybody else,
do you know somebody that could be compared to Jesus? If yes please let me
know because I'd like to meet him or just to know about Him
Massimo
Hi Massimo
Just read one of your bibleman pages. Interesting stuff.
I have had a Book of Mormon on my shelf for ages but never really read much of it. I was
always puzzled by the fact that the record of these Hebrews was written in Egyptian.
Everybody knows that the inhabitants of Jerusalem spoke Hebrew and had done so for
generations.
Is there not a case for the BoM being a record of Egyptians rather than Hebrews ?
Steve.
Dear friend,
Thanks for your kind words.
Have you ever thought that the new testament was written in Greek, was there a time the
Jews had spoken in Greek? Is there not a case that the Bible being a record of Greek
instead of Jews?
Just a thought. Maybe if you want to be fair you shouldn't read the Bible too, right?
Massimo
Hi Massimo,
Thanks for your reply.
The Greeks invaded Palestine under Alexander the Great and remained there for some 300
years until the Roman invasion - approx 60BC. During this time of Greek occupation, Greek
did become the language spoken by the Jews and there was a move towards Greek culture and
lifestyle. There was of course, some resistance and the various wars of the period testify
to that.
However, it was because of this Greek "occupation", for want of a better word,
that Greek became the common language and the New Testament was then written in that
language.
My point about the BoM being written in Egyptian was that the OT testifies that the
language of the people of Israel and Judah was Hebrew. How come the BoM was then written
in not just a language foreign to the Jews, but also that of one of their main enemies ?
As regards not having read the BoM - I have read parts of it, mainly 1 Nephi, but not for
some time. I have not however read all of it. I like your frankness and openness. I do
have some real questions about the BoM as I know the OT better and have great difficulty
in linking the OT with the claims of the BoM, especially when it comes to some of the
claims that are made. Maybe this is why I have never really read beyond 1 Nephi.
Best wishes.
Steve.
Thanks for your replay, so according to your idea the Romans were about 100 years in
Palestine at the time of Christ, so maybe at that time The Jews were speaking Latin, or
maybe the Romans were speaking Greek to make the Jews to feel better, I am sorry but for
the text of the Bible is clear that they (Jesus and the Apostles were speaking just Hebrew
Acts 2:5-11
So I am sorry but I never heard that Jesus and the APOSTLES were speaking Greek, they
never spoken Latin for the same suggestion and they don't speak today nor Greek nor Latin,
but because you like the idea just in the times of Christ they were.
speaking Greek
FROM THE revised edition of smith's bible dictionary A.J.HOLMAN COMPANY, PHILADELPHIA
The gospel according to Matthew. "There was been considerable discussion as to the
language in which it was originally composed. Every early writer, HOWEVER, who mention
that Matthew wrote a Gospel at all says that he wrote in HEBREW, THAT IS, in the Syro
Chaldaic.
The Gospel of Mark was written in Rome and had some Latin in it and Hebrew too.
But the Romans didn't speak Greek, just Latin.
So the reason why we have a new testament in Greek is not the reason you wrote but another
one. For me there is no problem, I was just pointing that out for your question on the
Bom. If you want to be fair, on my opinion, you should reconsider your idea.
When you write"I have read parts of it, mainly 1 Nephi, but not for some time. I have
not however read all of it." sorry but this is not machting with "(It is also
interesting to note that the 1830 BoM does tend to support the trinity concept while later
"translations" of the BoM make changes to deny it. Worth having a look if you
can get a copy.)
To say that you "should" have taken a deeper look on it, otherwise you can't be
fair. It seems that not only you read the whole book but even later
"translations" . You wrote it no Massimo. ". Maybe this is why I have never
really read beyond 1 Nephi."
See, I am sorry, but in my frankness, you don't seem very "trustful" in what you
declare.
Have a great day.
If you will have more questions, if you want an answer, please try to be more clear on
your sincerity.
Massimo.
Btw regarding John 19:20
there were Hebrew and latin too, why? If they were talking just greek why they put these
two FIRST then Greek LAST ONE?
I forget to tell you this. Have you ever heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls? They were
written in the same period of the Gospels, they are the most old handwritings of the Jews
and they are written In Hebrew not in Greek, if you want to see some copies I can referr
to you a lot of them and these are not just opinions but real things. Anyway like I wrote
to you it doesen't bother me at all this fact, I was just mentioning to you that because,
on my personal opinion, it shouldn't bother you if the book of Mormon was written in
Egyptian reformed, but anyway you can keep your concern, it is not my problem. Hoping to
have jumped this little thing, I mean the greek problem.
Your friend
Massimo
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