(C) Copyright by Massimo Franceschini
Go back to the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
These are parts extracted from a correspondence between me and supporters of the Saturday
Since the point is if the Sabbath day should continue after the resurrection of Jesus or if there was a change after that I will try to prove the change.Hosea 2:1-11 In this case the subject in the chapter is the apostasy of Israel and the Lord is speaking in the future and it is the Lord Himself speaking, verse 11 says "I will (future) cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons and her Sabbaths (so here the Lord Himself is declaring that in the future because the apostasy of Israel the Sabbath day will cease) if somebody wants to say that it means something different he should try to bend the scripture, I really don't do that at all.
So the point now is to try to understand when this change happens.
Luke 22:17-20 "And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, take this (imperative) and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you I will not drink of the fruit of the wine until the kingdom of God shall come> And He took the bread and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, this is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, this cup is the new testament ( so what was the old Testament He didn't specify but we have His declaration that a new testament replaced an old testament, anyway I don't want to add anything because it is clear)
So at this point the disciples received the command to observe the Holy supper, but we have no mention about the day when it should be observed.
Fortunately the Bible give us a beautiful means to help us.
Matthew 18:16 "that in the mouth or 2 or 3 witnesses every word may be established
II Corinthians 13:1 it says the same
Hebrew 10:28 it says the same
John 8:13-18 Jesus supported this rule.
So if we believe in the Bible we can try to support our opinion in this hard way to prove them trough the scriptures, we have to find places in the new testament in which the subject and the contest be regarding the first day of the week (Sunday,by the way in a booklet of your church, it is written that Constantine, the roman emperor, adopted for the first time this day like Holy, because he was a worshipper of the sun, from which came the name Sunday, well I guess the writer didn't pay attention that in Italy at that time, they weren't speaking English, in fact the name of that day in Italian is Domenica, that come from the Latin Dominus day, that it means in English Lord's day that it is the same expression that John used in Revelation 1:10 , so this Historical evidence it seems to me pure nonsense, anyway we will leave the Bible explain to us in what day they worshipped) or the seventh day (the Saturday) when the church was gathered and they were taking the sacrament or doing Christian meetings, we will not have the possibility to add or remove anything from what the scripture declare but we should accept what the scripture will declare and we will need at least 2 o 3 scriptures to support our ideas according to the 3 scriptures above quoted.
You was quoting to me many scriptures in Acts where it is declared that Paul often went in the Synagogue to preach the Gospel see acts 17:2-4 and acts 18:4, did you mean that Paul and others Christians went in the Synagogue to take the sacrament or collect offering ? it would sound very strange to me to know that the Jews were taking the sacrament in their synagogue or if they paid tithing to the Christians, or even better they allowed Paul to worship in a Christian way in their synagogue, let me tell you probably, knowing the Jews , they would have stoned him, no the real reason is like the scripture is saying," reasoned with them out of the scriptures," so he was trying to convert them and the only place and time was Saturday when they met and the Synagogue where they gathered .Anyway I will leave you to find 2 o 3 scriptures in the new testament to support your ideas and now I will collect my scriptures to support my beliefs.
John 20:19-23 "Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews (why they fear the Jews, maybe they were worshipping in a different way? the unique problem for the Jews was always regarding their law and their way to worship, so their gathering was maybe to worship because Jesus came it should be a special occasion) came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said He showed unto them his hand and his side> Them were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when He hath said this, He breathed on them, sand saith unto them, Receive the Holy Ghost (I guess was a very special occasion, they saw the Lord, received the command to go forth, received the Holy Ghost and......) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Yes was a very special occasion and it occurred on the first day of the week when the disciples were assembled.
Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread,Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow;"
You told me that they were assembled on that day to take the bread because of departure of Paul, but it doesn't make any sense, the Sabbath was the day before so if they took the sacrament on Sabbath, like you support there was no reason to meet again on another day to take something that you have already taken. , and also could you change your Sabbath for your convenience? Anyway I can count this like my first witness by the Bible in which it is clear written that in the first day of the week they come together to break bread.
I Corinthians 16- 2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him" if they assembled on Saturday, the day before they could collect the offering on that day, like in your church I saw they do,so now if your church collect the offerings on Sabbath they at least are doing something different from the Bible, anyway it is no big deal for me only to show you that for convenience if they assembled on Saturday it would have been more easy to collect the money on the same day, Make sense? anyway I have here my second witness from the Bible that on the first day of the week they were collecting offerings and all the churches now yours included they collect now on the same day in which they worship.
I Corinthians 11:20-33 Those are the rules that Paul gave to the Christians for the last supper,, he didn't mention the day but he was saying in what way the people should take the sacrament, it is important for me because in the synagogues they couldn't take the sacrament, neither collect offerings for the Christians, so I have brought my witnesses from the Bible, I took the contest, the subject, I didn't add or remove anything from the scripture I quoted, so you must do the same if you like play good, those are the rules of the Bible, not mine, you should collect 2 o 3 scriptures in which clearly is declared that on Saturday that Christians were assembled to take the sacrament or the supper of the Lord according to His commandment on the last supper. If you will you quote scriptures before the resurrection you have to keep on mind that the change happened after the resurrection, because the Domenica (your Sunday) was chosen to remember the Lord's day. like John mentioned in Revelation. you quoted Romans 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another" I have to thank you because it support the idea that already at that time there was discussion about the change, because only the Jews kept always the Sabbath and the gentiles were very few in Palestine and I have no records if the gentiles observe some special day, why those questions? Constantine came on 313 a.d., so there was discussion already about the law and about days, because there was the change, otherwise if it was like the booklet says, until the Costantino's time there was not discussion, unfortunately the Bible mentions this verse.
Another interesting scripture is on Acts 2:1-4
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come,they were all with one accord in one place (gathered). And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
So they were gathered in one place on the day of Pentecost and they received the Holy Ghost, what magnificent was! Why is this scripture so important for my purpose? Simple, because the day of Pentecost follows the Sabbath, see Leviticus 23:15-16
Another interesting thing is that the Greek original version Has the word Sabbath instead of "the first day of the week" specially when follows the Sabbath, like in Matthew 28:1, also in Mark 16:2 Mark 16:9 Luke 24:1 John 20:1 John 20:19 Acts 20:7 I Corinthians 16:2. But in the original text there is written "Sabbath" 2 times.
We have also historical evidence, less important, I agree ,then the scriptures, anyway is a manner in which is possible to destroy the theory, that it was Constantine to introduce the Sunday.
Ignazio epistle to the Magnesi 101 a.c.
He wrote that at his time the believers kept the first day of the week like holy and no more the Saturday.
Giustino the Martyr on his Apologie 1:67 140 a.c.
He wrote the same.
Clemente of Alexandria Book 7 chapter 12 193 a.c.
Hed wrote the same.
Origene book 3 chapter 23 201 a.c.
He wrote the same.
Hy
I want to thank you again for your kindness in writing me back. When I wrote at the
site of your church they promised to write me back by a bible specialist in 3 0 4
days and after a
week nobody was answering, so I understood for sure I did bingo,
in fact my reasoning and his reasoning was :" I am asking about the
main doctrine of this church in a different way and they don't know how
answer, in fact I had to write to 2 times more to have an answer from
you and you are I guess in another place, your first answer avoid to bring
the 2 0 3 testimonies from the new testament,you did real good job
trying to stay on the old testament,.
About your second letter I have another challenge for you, you avoided
always to explain me where the Christians met to worship and
when they parteked of the sacrament, for the second part I have your
letter in which you told me you don't know nothing about it, but the
first part of the question it would be interesting to know where they
gathered, because in the synagogue of the Jews it would have been
surely impossible worship like Christians, because it would be like
make a Joke about religion. In your
second letter you start in this way:" The Sabbath is as old as man"
I am sorry you are not completely right. The word Sabbath for the
first time was found in Exodus, at the beginning the Lord is speaking
about the seventh day, but He didn't give a name to it, make
difference believe me, for several reason, one, could you quote me
please scriptures from the beginning until ten commandments, in which
you can show me that somebody was keeping the Sabbath? and why the
Lord in Exodus was explaining the way to worship on Sabbath, if they,
like you are sure, knew already the law? why He explained the meaning
of the word Sabbath, maybe they didn't know nothing about it, and I
could go on here, Moses the author of the Pentateuch could give us
insights about Abraham, Isaac Jacob, Noah Enoch if they kept the
Sabbath, why the Lord had to explain him everything about the Sabbath
if the Patriarchs kept it, good question right? anyway you could quote
me the scriptures that I am sure you don't have like for the new
Testament, and I will buy them. You was writing "without there being
a word in the Bible about this which would certainly be one of the
greatest events that the world has ever known" so in between Genesis
and exodus this happened or not?
Regarding Hosea, you quote me a commentary, but a commentary is an
opinion of a man, if I took a commentary of another religion could be
different, a commentary could be useful for obscure prophesies,
but here the declaration is so clear that the commentary is necessary
to change the meaning, like you was trying to do, remain the
scripture you can accept or not, but the scripture is saying that.
you quoted Matthew 19:16-19 and I want to thank you . Jesus Himself
forget to to quote one of the greatest events that the world has ever
known and it was but here he says:"Thou shalt do no murder, thou
shalt no commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear
false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and thou shalt love
thy neighbor as thyself" So look you quoted this one not me so was
your fault.
Matthew 5:19 It was true maybe when Jesus died the law was
fulfilled, otherwise my dear friend you should sacrifice lambs every
sin you will commit or do everything the law required.do you see how
much is weak your reasoning?
Anyway I really appreciated to talk to you and I respect you and your
opinion integrally, and
if you want add something you are welcome, the Bible will remain the
same for me and you, but please no commentary or Human explanations
will not be accepted. Bottom line, the most
important thing is to respect the other opinion and for me you can
worship on Saturday, eat vegetables and do everything you want,
because I am not your Judge.
Good by from Massimo.
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