Thomas Bani Merinita ([email protected])
 January 19, 1999 (22:46)

 This thread is about the books we'd like to see White Wolf develope for
 Mage, both tA and tSC.

 I'd love to see more books in the "TALES OF MAGICK" series. DARK
 ADVENTURE left me cold, but the idea is sound. Here's what I'd like to see.
 First SPACE OPERA, each group that leaves for the deep Umbra sees
 different things, some suggestions for the different styles of Space travel that
 Dream Speakers, Son of E, Hermetics, and Void Engineers use. Also could
 Mages found a colony in deep space? Is it all Gaia? Would the Nuwisha try to
 drive them off? Second METAPHYSICAL QUESTS, this is the hardest form
 of mage to make work. HELP!!! This needs inspired advice and counsel.
 Third STRANGE DAWNS, this would be for near future and Alternate
 History settings. Both are interesting areas to game, but changes in paradigm
 and difficulty need definition. Example, in an alternate WoD were the ESP/Psi
 phenomenom fad of the 70's keep going and gained strength, and were the
 Sons of Ether finally achived their goal of making Ether part of the Paradigm,
 so that now everyone including acedemic scientists accept the reality of
 Psychic Powers, how would that change the range of co-incidence? In a world
 where the outcome of the second world war was less than clean cut, and the
 Trads and the Technos were in allience for a couple of decades rather than a
 couple of years, what would the dynamics be? If the Counsel and the Union
 sat down to negotiate, what would the possitions be? Doubtless you folks
 have a ton of other ideas.

 I'd like to see one more trad book, Al-i-Batin. A modern version of this
 tradition is needed.

 In tSC I'd love to see three things. A) a book on the flying ships. How are
 they're made? Where do they dock? How can a get my counsel mage a ride?
 These are the most wonderous things in the setting, they need developement!
 B) a couple of city books. I know the Mage line does not do city books, but
 come on, its the Renaisance, even Mages can't travel as much. I'd say three
 cities to a book. The first book should have London, Antwerp, and Prague, all
 northern cities. The second could have Lisbon, Venice, and Milan, southern
 cities. These will be limated treatments, but it will be useful to have an idea of
 normal mage activities in these cities and an idea of the demographics of mages
 in period. And C) I want the Spanish in Mexico, two reasons, Werebats and
 the chance to see how the Order of Reason pushes its paradigm in hostile
 quarters.

 You guys must have grand ideas, tell us all.

 Thomas Bani Merinita

        Saying, "Think big, its the internet, no one cares."

      I thought about this earlier today. I really liked the Axis Mundi book
      which is a Mage/Werewolf crossover sourcebook based on the Gaian
      Spirits allied with the top Garou totems. Though this book is strongly
      slanted toward the Garou, I find it EXTREMELY useful when dealing
      with the Dreamspeaker in my Mage campaign. At the very least, it
      allows me more and better options for three dimensional NPCs and
      future plot hooks.

      Unfortunately, that also leads me to wonder about what other kinds of
      spirits are out there, ignored by the contents of this book. If I am a
      Hermetic Mage, am I bound to the Garoucentric ideas of what spirits
      are present despite the fact that they do not fit into my paradigm? What
      if I am an Ecsatic mage who wants to summon the zeitgeist of the
      Summer of Love? An Akashic Brother who speaks to the spirits of
      his/her ancestors? Or an Etherite who makes "10-10-infinity" phone
      calls to eighth dimension? Will A Mithrian Chorister summoning the will
      of the divine speak with the same spirit that a Hollow One summons up
      with a Oujia board? The list goes on.....

      Many of these instances would probably be best left to the Storyteller
      and the old "Masks of God" arguement, but what if the Storyteller is not
      well-versed in the spiritual topography of the nine Traditions (or even
      within his/her own faith)?

      I don't have the time, patience, or resources to undertake this, but I
      think it would be something worthwhile for White Wolf to put
      together....something like what the Technomancer's Toybox did to
      expand the ideas of what is out there in terms of both mega-technology
      and mystechnology.

      ABOVE ALL ELSE, WW...keep on making books that inspire our
      creativity and bring the game to a new level. I would rather buy a
      $16.00 sourcebook which will launch a thousand unique adventures
      than two $8.00 "modules" which could only send me down the same
      roads a thousand times.

      Frederick J. Freakboy

      I like the ideas posted earlier. Now here are mine.

      1. I said this an endless amount of times but for each tradition book my
      favorite part were character templates, not because they have character
      examples but because they show how different the characters in a
      tradition can be. So I'd like "sub-tradition books". I gave examples of
      these in previous posts. Tribes from each continent, various asian mystic
      beliefs for akashics, hermetic houses, etherites of different fields of
      science, etc.

      2. I liked the idea of sorcerors crusade area books but cities seem too
      limited. Instead I'd like to see this.

      ITALIAN STATES: FAITH AND SECULARISM: A look at the
      southern states, whose in power, what they were like, etc. Borgias, De
      Medici's, Etc. As well as more about Machiavelli and DaVinci.

      GERMAN STATES: A PEOPLE SHATTERED: After Luthers little
      message German states were torn against themselves. The 1500
      (mid-late M:tSC timeline) Germany as faith was torn against itself.

      IBERIA: EMPIRE IN THE MAKING: Spain, Portugal, and their new
      world territories.

      NORTHERN LANDS: GREAT BRITAIN AND FRANCE: The
      strong Queen Elizabeth, France, torn between the old and the new,
      Granuelle O'Malley. Irish sea-faring mystic, etc.

      DaVinci's Sketchbook: A sorcerors crusade "technomancers toybox"
      with items based off actual DaVinci designs and new items based on a
      similar design method.

      3. Mage world books: Africa, Asia, Australia, India, Middle East,
      South America, Etc.

      -- ChAoS
 

 I'll add one more to the list of ChAoS' template concept: Orphans who aren't goth
 street monkeys!

 I think the idea for World Books for Mage is an excellent one--most starting Mages
 won't have access to Corr4 (necessary for getting the whole group around), so
 they're likely to be in one area for awhile, at least.

 As a side issue, I want to repeat my call for City Books to include looks at a
 particular town's Umbrascape and Necropolis. I mean, I get tired of hearing only
 one group's view of this or that burg.

 A book, or possibly a chapter of the previously mentioned alternate spirits book
 (great idea, BTW) or maybe the template book, that I want to see is an examination
 into some of the "real world" mystic societies/cultures, with an examination of the
 Mages that arise from these groups. For instance, I can see practitioners of
 voudoun joining the Dreamspeakers, the Euthanatos, the Verbena, the Ecstatics or
 even the Hollow Ones. A more in-depth look at other monotheisms outside the
 Judeo-Christian-Islamic axis would be welcome for designing less common
 Choristers, as would some of the surviving pagan and shamanistic traditions (small t)
 for the natural ones.

 Here's a concept: A friggin' online index! All the books, all the time! How often
 have you been forced to try to remember where you saw that half-forgotten, but
 really neat idea?

 I would probably be willing to pick up a book called Mindscapes that dealt with
 running Quiets and Seekings. Even though I'm a strong proponent of the
 "Storyteller's Perogative" concept, some tips would be nice.

 Oh, and frankly, WW adventures are lame. Sourcebooks are the best in the biz, but
 the modules are frequently more forced than the early Dragonlance ones, where you
 played out the books! I've never understood why they don't seem to understand
 their own strengths. Hell, after the second adventure involving Sam Haight, any
 self-respecting player would just walk away upon hearing the name, because no
 matter what they do, he wins.

 --Freemage
 Who ran a Werewolf Campaign in the Amazon where the players
 found a way to actually beat Haight to El Dorado.  Can you say,
 "Fuck the plot"?  I knew you could....

      I want to see a "Tales of Magick" book for Romantic Comedy in
      Mage...

      No! Just kidding! Don't throw that!

      I'm really hard pressed to come up with many ideas for new M:tA
      books; most of the important/significant supplementary material I can
      think of is already in print. One exception: there's plenty of room for a
      Book of Crafts II (and III, perhaps). Maybe these could double as
      paradigm/world books of a sort; certainly there's room for
      African-based crafts, Australian Aboriginal crafts, perhaps a Northwest
      Coast Native American group and/or the magickal descendants of the
      Ghost Dance, certainly a Jewish Qabalist craft.

      M:SC offers much more room for expansion. I like the Da Vinci
      sketchbook idea; I also hope the paradigm books offer some fairly
      substantive ideas on interactions among mages and mortals (for
      instance, a whole book could be written on the Celestial Chorus,
      Gabrielites, and Void Seekers and their connections to/influence on the
      mortal Church).

      I wouldn't mind seeing at least a couple of historical and geographical
      works, either. A sourcebook on magickal involvment in the Hussite
      Wars in Bohemia would be great...there were a good many interesting
      Artificer-like weapons deployed in the war as known historically, and
      the Hussite heretics offer the same opportunities to explore religious
      conflict that the Reformation does. The book would also necessarily
      take the role of a "worldbook" for Prague, Bohemia, and perhaps some
      of the neighboring states.

      -- Erik Filean
         ([email protected])

      Not only do I not want another book of crap, er, crafts, I want the
      existing one recalled. All the crafts listed in either the existant book or
      the previous message can be described as members of the Traditions.
      Back in first edition, Traditions weren't social clubs, they were
      TRADITIONS of magick.

      Why are Awakend houngans Bata'a and not Euthanatos? Why on Earth
      should there be Australian aborigine and Native American shamanistic
      crafts when that's what the Dreamspeakers are?

      UGH.

      I'm not someone who goes around claiming those rotten WW SOBs
      are "only in it for the money," 'cause then they'd be stock brokers,
      frankly, but Crafts are a BAD IDEA and furthering the idea with
      sequels is even worse.

      Now, having said that, I'd love to see some settings. I don't get why
      Mage doesn't have them and the notion that every mage is a
      globe-trotter is silly. Hell, even if it's true, can we see where they're
      trotting TO?

      -- Joe Grendel
         ([email protected])

 The Crafts exist for political and social reasons. Sure all Bata'a mages could be described as Euthanatos,
 Dreamspeaker, Verbena, or Cult of E, types. But for political, religious, and cultural reasons, they don't
 want to join. They see the Trads as being as bad as the Technocratic Union. Why? I suppose mainly
 because most of the Trad Mages aren't from their comunity, and also the Trads neither prevented the
 slave trade, nor really cared about European world domination (except for the non-european trads).
 Now the Bata'as probably know, or ought to know, that slaves were offered to European Merchants as
 soon as it was known that Europeans had valuable trade goods, Africa did not see an end to slavery until
 African slaves in Africa forced an end to slavery in this century. Many older Africans are still suposed to
 be bitter about that; they probably sound like old confederates. But to the Bata'a, and the comunity they
 come from, this is unimportant, white skin is the mark of evil, so they will not ally with whites or those
 allied to whites.

 In the mid-18th century, about two-thirds of the Dreamspeakers just left the counsel. They demanded an
 all out war to destroy European society to stop colonial conquest. The Counsel knew that this was
 impossible even if it had desired it. Neither the Hermetics, the Verbena, the Celestial Ch., the C of X, the
 Euthanatos, nor the Batini, could have tolerated that. So many tribal shamans left the counsel. In fact
 many never came at all, as the Dreamspeaker Tradbook shows, Shamans see the Magick workers of
 their tribe as Medicine folk, everyone else who uses magick is a witch. Some witches are tolerable, if
 they act as psuedo-medicine people for their tribe, and their tribe causes the Shaman's tribe no trouble,
 that's vile but permissable. If they help the Shaman defend her tribe, they have their uses. But if they use
 their magick for the benifit of themselves and their comunity with no thought to the shaman's tribe, why
 then they are filth, real magick should olny be used by the real people. And just about every tribal name
 means the real people, the only real people. You don't have to be European desended to be a bigot.

 Similarly, each craft in the book was either unwilling to deal with those it saw as inferior or unconcerned
 with the lesser life outside of their comunity. The Children of Knowledge were the only real exception,
 but they fear reprisals from the Counsel.

 Mind you, if there is a B of C II, they reasons for not joining the counsel should be better or at least
 different. Maybe there's a group of Shamans trying to take their tribe to another planet somewhere off in
 interstellar space. A cult of technophillic would be time travellars that want to end the present world by
 shaping the past. How do you like the sound of a group of Orphans that feel its more important to save
 the Fae?

 Thomas Bani Merinita

        Saying, "Only the Technocratic Union claims exclusive rights these days,
 look at the mess when we Hermetics claimed such rights."