Peregrine Gray ([email protected])
   February 15, 1999 (14:30)

   Speaking of the TTSNB and the deep darknesses, I've been thinking about
   the nature of aliens/UFOs in their most horrific sense in the WoD... anyone
   else who is interested, start a new thread on that topic and we'll hammer
   some stuff out...

   There, as brief as I could manage... sorry to tangentize.

Joe Grendel ([email protected])
 February 15, 1999 (16:55)

 "Before you shoot me, you need to listen. This may be your only chance.

 "I used to be one of you. I was a Virtual Adept, old school. You can't tell it to
 look at me, but I was in the Technocracy, then jumped ship to the Traditions
 when we found out just how in bed our 'friends' in the Reich were with the
 Nephandi.

 "If only I knew then what I know now.

 "I've spent the better part of the last few decades raiding Technocracy
 databases, sifting through the files of the other Conventions. And seven years
 ago, what I found scared me more than anything I've ever seen, even during my
 days in Berlin.

 "The Void Engineers know the Horizon is falling. It's not a matter of 'if,' it's a
 matter of 'when.' The Nephandi lords are coming. The Void Engineers think
 they'll break through the Horizon some time in the next five years.

 "Here's the thing, though: Just as the Technocracy and Traditions aren't a
 monolithic force, there's Nephandi, and there's Nephandi. Which Nephandi
 reach Earth first will make all difference.

 "If the Lords of Malfeas, or the Nameless Outsiders reach our world first, we're
 doomed. One will destroy it slowly, although human life will survive at least one
 more decade before the inevitable end. The Nameless Outsiders will consume
 our reality within a month.

 "But there's a third alternative. Some people call them alien invaders. Some of
 you more superstitious types call them demon lords. But the thing is, neither one
 is interested in destroying our world. They want to rule it. And they're the only
 force strong enough to defend us from the other Nephandi factions.

 "So, yeah, I'm barabbi. I'm trying to help the dark lords through. But I'm doing
 it to save humanity. While you guys are rearranging the deck chairs on the
 Titanic with your little 'Ascension War,' none of that will matter in a few years.
 I'm trying to plan for the day after.

 "So ... do you want to kill me, or join me?"

 (Yeah, I thought of this watching "The X-Files" last night.)

      THAT was COOL. In fact, it fits so well, do you mind if I latch onto
      this thread as a place to discuss the idea I brought up in some other
      thread -- about aliens/UFOs etc. in the WoD?

      I never thought of Them as Nephandi per se (maybe just got numbed to
      the idea from the deluge of alien-paranoia films lately, ala
      "Independance Day" and such shit), but it's a good idea... though I
      imagine there would be some "aliens" out there that were just regular,
      non-malevolent umbrood...

      Here's what the X-Files episode inspired me to:

      "The Conspiracy" -- split between those who serve the aliens, and those
      who pretend to serve while resisting

      Void Engineer Opinion -- explore the otherworlds, improve interstellar
      technology by studying alien tech, defend rights on earth to make
      expeditions.

      NWO Opinion -- protect the masses, mediate between aliens and
      humanity, learn all you can (spy). Unify. Misinform & cover up.

      Progenitor Opinion -- learn from alien data, samples, methods.
      Experiment with alien DNA. Gain an edge. Create the hybrids for the
      aliens.

      madness theorists -- oppose the Conspiracy on 2 levels: A) "You're
      being ridiculous, there's no great Conspiracy with aliens... you paranoid
      freak..." and B) "I've heard all those stories too, all that so-called
      evidence. It's all a scam, a hoax, a cover-up for other crimes and
      perpetrations of fraud."

      is the Conspiracy only among governmental and intelligence- community
      sympathizers?

      there are Rebels among the aliens, some other race or other faction that
      is defying those who work with the Conspiracy

      faceshifters with green poisonous blood, melt away into green slime
      when killed, killed only w/special wpn.

      witch & Merinita Opinion -- the "aliens" are beings related to faeries,
      but have embraced Reason/Technology/Weaver. Evidence:
      time-warping ability, curiousity, extra-dimensional familiarity, general
      description, association with rings and circles, shapeshifting, poisonous
      blood, history of abduction.

      Hermetic Opinion -- "aliens" are Umbrood who have long watched the
      world from the Deep Umbra, and began to make more courageous
      expeditions after the Order of Reason began to gain power. They come
      from beyond the far Horizon, some say from a vast Realm there. They
      seem to be able to use Sphere magick (Mind, Corres., Dim.Sci.), and
      their foci are those of the Reasoners -- though alien technology is
      apparently even more greatly advanced than that of the Union. Some
      Hermetics have theorized that the "aliens" came from the Shard
      Ouranus, though that theory has been discarded as unlikely.

      there.  comments?

      Use that as you wish.

      And I think this might be a case where we should get away from the
      Mage view of the universe.

      Demon lords, Malfeans, Umbrood, all come from other PLANETS in
      the ascendant Technocratic paradigm. So UFOs might be Technocracy
      node-sterilization machines (not even gonna try to spell them), or they
      could be Umbra-traveling vehicles.

      And while those who conspire with invading aliens/Umbrood might not
      see themselves as Nephandi, I doubt the Technocracy and Celestial
      Chorus will feel the same way. So our Virtual Adept conspirator would
      certainly be a barabbi in their view.

      Dang. Now I need to see "Mad Masque" hit the stands in 1999. And
      the creeping horror "Book of Magick." (Isn't the other one a gothic
      romance setting, or something?)

      -- Joe Grendel
         ([email protected])

      Question for Joe G: why is it you think that this might be a case where
      we should get away from the Mage view of the universe? I think I just
      didn't understand.

      The only reasons I can infer from your last post were: aliens don't fit in
      WoD because they're based in a Reasoner Paradigm, or because they
      come from other planets/realms, or because the view the mysticks take
      of the universe doesn't support the idea of aliens as such.

      None of those make much sense, though. And since you usualyl make
      sense, I figured my lack of understanding was probably due to a lack of
      sleep and general bleariness.

      Please enlighten me?

      (inside joke for the Nephandi-list readers)  =)

      Glad to know I normally make sense! The confusion was due to my
      incorherent ramblings.

      No, what I meant was that if we forget about Horizons and Gauntlets
      for a second, and think instead about, say, ET wanting to come to
      Earth, and Elliot helping him arrive from his alien planet, that's a more
      benign picture, one that few people would have a problem with.

      But from the mage's perspective, that's a Nephandi helping something
      from beyond the Horizon enter Gaia.

      It's partially a failure of vocabulary. There's Tradition mages,
      Technocrats, Maurauders, Orphans, Crafts and Nephandi. A mage
      who works with beings from the other side of the Horizon, and who
      wants to help them come here is -- by default -- Nephandi. Say
      something terrible happened on Arcadia and the Order of Hermes and
      Cult of Ecstasy began setting up a home for them inside the Gauntlet,
      and that they were going to weaken the Horizon temporarily for that
      purpose. The Void Engineers and many of the Traditions would view
      them as doing something dangerously close to being Nephandic,
      wouldn't they, despite the fact that what they're doing is pretty benign
      from everyone but the Technocracy's perspective?

      Which isn't to say that our Virtual Adept in the example is. He IS a
      Nephandi, but one who is doing it for what he believes are altruistic
      reasons.

      A fun wrinkle to his plot would be if the characters investigated the files
      he turned up and found evidence that another Nephandi planted that
      information. It'd look like a conspiracy to fool the characters until they
      realize that it was planted by what is apparently another Nephandi
      faction. So is the information true, and meant to dishearten the
      Technocrats? False and for the same purpose? False and meant to trick
      the characters into going Nephandi? Or false and meant to frame a rival
      Nephandi faction?

      -- Joe Grendel
         ([email protected])