-------------------------------------- ICQ Chat Save file Started on Mon Apr 20 23:08:46 1998 -------------------------------------- <&PALchat1> Hi folks Hello to all Was beginning to worry about you, Sue hi I Sue! I need to grab my glasses. brb <&PALchat1> Yeah I forgot all about this until about an hour ago, and had to finish something up ok override colorwhat is supposed to be checked marked? <&PALchat1> Ok, could we please do without the horn tonight Who is honking? Hi All! <&PALchat1> Bec, Auto color off and override on Hi Lady! Gosh, Lynne - I just can't every hide from you. hi...finally made it Great thanks Hello folks. Sue, there's a PAL on my ICQ list who's not in here. How do we get her in here? no you can't! :) Hello Chris Maggie - just grab her name and drag her in. <&PALchat1> Just drag her from your list to the chat window Maggie hey everyone Sue - How many will be allowed in here? Jude will be coming along a little later Hi Penny Hi Cathy Hello Everyone Hi Beccas <&PALchat1> There's no limit, unless you want me to stop accepting people Wow! I'm amazed at the turnout already! Anna is coming I think HI Debbie Hi Chris I'm just afraid Maggie and I will not be able to keep up. But..hey..Maggie can handle it. Hi Everyone The more people, the merrier! LOL! Right, Dar. As long as I only have to deal with ONE question at a time, I will try to maintain. Hello Anna <&PALchat1> You guys will be fine Hi Beccas I'd like to start of with a question to everyone here..... As a lot of you may or may not know...Maggie and I used to lead a topic on Prodigy covering Marketing your crafts so we're kind of used to harassing each other How many of you ARE already marketing your PA creations? Which one is Maggie? (Darleen's always been a harasser!) Hi Julie Maggie...I am hi all! am I late? ok great thanks Thanks, Pepper <&PALchat1> NOt me ... yet <---gonna ask maggie LOTS of questions Thanks Penny! are we supposed to have PA open? Ooh! I gotta question! Hi Sara No. on opening PA, we're not going to be talking PA at all. How many of you want to market your PA creations but don't know how to begin? ME Me Maggie! me I'm not seeing everyone on here can someone tell me how to change it? ME Great! me Hi everybody <&PALchat1> Knight's.... try checking override format and unchecking auto color Hi ho Well, someone needs to throw out questions here if we're going to get started. Who's first? I was wondering how to "begin" this chat, and mentioned to Darleen that it might be helpful if we told you how WE got started. Me! Yes, no? <&PALchat1> Yes, yes! Yes Maggie sure yes Okay, when we're trying to sell stuff, do we yell "Show me the money!" Thanks Sue Let Chris ask her question first, so she doesn't forget. hi Sandy! I got you here! Thanks, am ready now. Ok, Chris - let's hear it Good question, Chris. Take it away, Darleen! I think she just did Maggie. LOL How do you price stuff? "Show me the money!" Money up front for the order is her question Good Q. Beccas I think it depends on the particular customer, but my experience is AT LEAST a deposit. Thanks I don't get money up front. So far, I have never had a problem...oh wait, there is someone who still owes me $3.00. Your welcome, eh. I've been "burned" just once by someone I thought was "good for the money" and I was stuck with her personalized order. <&PALchat1> How much do you ask for upfront Maggie? How do you go about getting started - your first order or contact? Depends on the job. If it's say personal business cards, I get the design fee up front. I have also learned that if I am doing a big job with designing involved, I ask for a deposit up front. I've been stuck with doing a lot of designing and then nothing happening. <&PALchat1> Teapot, even with personalized items, you don't get anything upfront? Definitely get any design fees UP FRONT! Thanks a bunch, Julie. So how do you price what you are going to sell is there a formula or anything? how much to you charge for design fee Yes, Design fees up front if I don't personally know the person very well. If no more questions right now, I'll tell you all how I got started with selling my stuff. I live in small community and I've never been paid "up front" and I've never been burned. I charge $25.00 or $15.00, depending on the job And answer Penny's question later! Great Same charge for me. Give us an example of the type of jobs. First of all, I am NOT a salesperson. The thought of asking anyone to buy ANYTHING from me makes me sick! LOL Like candy bar wrappers how would you price them? It never occurred to me to sell my PA stuff when I started with PA. I just made stuff for gifts..... ....then I went to my first PA convention, in Dallas, and took a bunch of my "stuff" for a show & tell..... <&PALchat1> That's good to hear Maggie, I can't stand salespeople! Where do you find display supplies, like card racks or holders, and the cellophane, plastic that goes over acards that you see in the stores? ....all the PALs who saw the stuff kept telling me, "You should really be SELLING this stuff!"..... Please hold questions until Maggie finishes. Thanks I finally started showing some of my stuff around the office where I work, and people started asking me to make them stuff, so I had to come up witha price list.... I did that, then put together a little catalog of some of the things I designed at that time..... ....like business cards and other easy stuff.... ....and that's how I started. After that, people bought things and showed them to their friends, and their friends called to order..... ....and little by little, I started getting braver, and trying new creations with PA...... and you charge 15 or 25? 5 what? ....and that's how my "product" line grew. One really GREAT word of mouth thing I started selling early on..... .....was personalized (with photo) birthday party invitations for kids' parties....... ....along with party favors. I put my business info on the back, and got all SORTS of business from that.... what kind of party favors .....I also gave the person giving the birthday party a bunch of my busines cards. How much did you charge for the invitations? Party favors I made were candy wraps, games, party hats, etc. Hi All ! I have to find my price list to give you specific prices. Hello to All Dar.....you wanna take over here and tell how you got started,a nd I'll look for my price list. Maggie, Darleen...may I butt in a moment? You've got the floor Pepper hello hello One of the items that Maggie and I recommend is having a portfolio of items that you create with you at all times. Great idea. complete with prices ? ok...i think it is important to consider what kind of "income area" you live in...and then adjust the prices accordingly. Do you use a book as a portfolio? Yes - with prices. I am continuously adding and subtracting from my portfolio Pepper is exactly right! Depends on where you live how you price. I have a binder that I use with the plastic sleeves in it What do you have in your porfolio? For Example? dkkat is Vail from Texas ya 'll and I sell my products quite successfully What about a 3 ringed binder wiht see through pages..top loading..you could change at any time I have a binder, plus I have a "samples box" of actual products. Jude lives in high income area and sells her 1/4 cards for $1.75 and I live in lower to mid class income area and sell mine for $1.25 dkkat, feel free to join us in answering questions! I have samples of business cards, notecards, etc. ANything that I make and that is included in my catalog. I'm sure you have lots of things that you make that are terrific and could be displayed in a portfolio Ok, but where can you go to get started if you don't work? Lou...that is what I use i.e. 3 ringed binder, works good for me if I may? <&PALchat1> Ok, for those of you that are already selling stuff.... do you have a "price list" or do you price each job individially? Do party invitations for friends, Sara. Word of mouth advertising works Sara - Just start hitting the doors of businesses. Gift shops are good ones to start with. I put a sample (marked sample) on bulletin boards in laundrymats, restaurants, beauty shops i have an "average" price list to start with and then customers and I go from there Sara, how about local craft show etc. Ok, and I belong to a Newcomers Club here. Another good "marketing tool" is a laminated sign with a bunch of tear-off business cards (printed on paper), that you can post in laundry mats, grocery stores, apts., etc. dkkat - that has never worked for me. Glad it's worked for you. <&PALchat1> If someone has J&J on thier list, could you please drag her in. I can't seem to get her in. I also have a portfolio of items that I make, but I use cd holders for the small items clear plastic and go into a 3 ring binder? That's another good point: something may work great for one PAL as far as getting customers, but not for another PAL. Just depends on your area. So if you sell a 1/4 fold card for $1.75 do you still charge a set-up fee? All-in-all, my best selling method has been word of mouth. You can see, that a lot depends on where you live as to how to market and how pricing is made. Nothing is concrete. You try one thing and if it doesn't work, you try something else. I've never had to actually look for customers....they find me. I did some signs for business that had faded ones in their windows once and just said I made this for you and here is my business card for personal jobs I charge a $20 set-up fee...for cards in stores, no. I have several small stores in the area that are intrested in my cards but I need to know where to get display supplies, such as a card rack etc.? <&PALchat1> Jenny... I couldn't seem to get to you... sorry it took so long! I saw some card racks at Kelly Paper recently. let me get info on card rack... ThaNK you everyone that was trying to get me in.....no there must be a fault somewhere,,, I got some menu business from that. But I did not know how to really charge I found it was good starting my business off small and building (adding new PA type creations) as I got better and braver. <&PALchat1> Good Idea Bec knight's maiden think about this for a display piece...a shoe holder or one of those note holders with 18 folds in it I get racks free at work but, just have never gotten myself started so I could use them. Wood Factory PhoneOrder #1-800-842-9663 PhoneOrder #1-800-842-9663 PhoneOrder #1-800-842-9663 thanks Pepper, do you also know where to get the plastic covering that someplaces put over them to protect from getting dirty? Thats a good idea ..here Drug stores put out their old un-need racks and youcan pick up for free.. I never have sold greeting cards because didn't see any money in them for the time that goes into creating them. Darleen and Maggie how long you been doing this? 1-800-842-9663 Did any of you find yourself being too critical of your work in the beginning? I am forever finding flaws. oops...wood factory for # above Or try a Salvation Army I don't actually sell much in the way of PA creations anymore since I've started selling my disk designs. Yup I do I've been "legal" for 2 1/2 years". But I started selling about 2-1/2 years ago. <&PALchat1> Pepper, what was that number again? ;-) always I am my own worst critic :( Darleen and I started around the same time I haven't been able to find any old card racks because card companies "rent" them to stores. Who keeps honking? 1-800-842-9663 not me beccas glad im not the only one that is hearing that beccas I end up doing things over and over because I want them to be perfect so I probably end up in the hole. Will you be able to talk about copyright issues? Yes, the honking is very distracting. <&PALchat1> If the honking is distracting you, go to Other in the menu and uncheck sounds. Do you have artistic backgrounds? I don't consider myself artistic, but I think my work is improving. I have no artistic background. Just like to craft. I'm a legal secretary by profession. I only "discovered" PA 3 years ago. Those mega clipart CD-ROM packages are helpfull. these card racks revolve, made of wood, 3 slots each side, 4 sides in all, $24.95 They have tons of fonts, clipart and some have background pics as well. How about copyright problems? That sounds like just what I've been looking for :) Yeah what about copyright? I have a small amount of art background. Mostly just craft stuff done over the years. Combining it with comuters just made it perfect. I was a Credit Manager with AMD for ages before venturing out on my own here. but you can't use them all i.e. cd-rom pkgs Even if you have no artistic talents, there are loads of pre-designed things in PA that you can print and sell. Best bet is to design your own. Dar, you want to field copyright? native PA though, right? I don't make cards I do the badge a minute things and make bookmarks, stationary/envelopes, business cards, calendars, gift boxes (small), and napkin rings (inserts) plus placemats, recipe cards on and on but no greeting cards The copywrite problems are what led me into the direction of designing my own. I got tired of the restrictions. What copyright questions do we have? Get a camera, snap a bunch of pics and scan 'em in. why, no greeting cards? Greeting cards take a long time, and people don't wanna pay for your time. One item. yes, Darleen, I agree with that. Isn't there a place we can go in PA to see what is copyrighted? leave that to you professionals the greeting cards I don't do cards either. Yes, under the PA Help you will find a list of everything that is copyrighted I was considering having a stall at our local markets,,,lots of locals and tourists...wanted to show a range of what could be made....love the idea of personalised things...can anyone give me some hints on how to go about displaying and selling....shortcuts Im looking for... thanks I do notecards, but not greeting cards. I sell more greeting cards to friends than I do in stores I think greeting cards are a burden on the printer and perhaps too time consuming for large quantites. <&PALchat1> Maggie, are the notecards personalized? I like doing quantity things. More profit in it for all my efforts. With mothers day coming up...I thought it would be the perfect oppurtunity Yes, I personalize notecards. Judy Crandall does REAL well with greeting cards! What's the charge for mini candy wrappers mostly? Doing personalized items in craft booths is almost impossible unless you take orders. But, then you lose the people who buy on impulse Yup. she sure does...makes me "almost" jealous! lol What kind of printers do you have Maggie and Darlene? How long do they last you? See, it just depends on where you live. Some will do well with one thing, others do well withother things. what kind of biz license do you need? I know it varies from state to state-is there a basic Vendors permit? the best thing you can do, is a little of everything and see what goes. Epson Stylus 800. I just got it recently. Used to have an HP but had too many problems. I have an HP officejet pro 1150C and an HP 820cse They are both workhorses Maggie, did you find your price list? Business licenses vary state to state. In AZ all that's required for a sole proprietorship is registration with Sec.of State. Thank you Pepper Do you ever have to figt the white edge? yup I have an Epson Color Stylus inkjet and a Brother HL 660 laser printer. In Calif, it costs me $150 a year for a license. If you are doing kids party invitations... do you charge the design fee and then so much per card? I have my price list, but I rather not spend a lot of time on prices, since it REALLY depends on your area of the country, and the size of your community. I started with a HP 550C and now have it and an HP1000C to make the large place mats mostly In MT all we use is our SS# - we don't have any sales tax therefor don't need tax # where would i call to find out about the permit? <&PALchat1> Do either of you have a wide carriage printer, and if so... has it increased your product line enough to justify it? Yes, I get a design fee, and a photo scanning fee, to set up the party invites. Here, I charge $6 for 1 doz. invites. accountant, bank I don't have a wide carriage printer. In texas we have to have the used-sales tax number in order to buy wholesale...but there is no charge for the license No, I don't have a large carriage and don't need it YET Yes, Penny do you have to have a permit just to sell alittle dkkat, where do we get that in Texas? So, it's inspiration to sell a lot. I have the 11 x17 capabilities and yes I use it Has anyone actually took their "project" to a commercial printer? Not I. you get it at your state offices sara State comptrollers office Sara For licenses, check with your city hall. Yes when I worked as a graphic designer. cost a bundle I gotta go.....Sue, could you send me a copy of this please? I did for a while chris, then discovered I can do it for less than the printers do Nope. They're too expensieve <&PALchat1> Somewhere along the line I heard about a $1 per page rule... I generally go by that and add for cutting time, and extras. I took an invitation I did one time to a local printer to see how much he would charge to do a similar invite. He said around $200. yes...the price was outrageous, Chris and told them it'd be cheaper for me to do it myself, and he said, it probably would. I sold my actual PA creations for about a year before concentrating my efforts towards doing my design disks for sale. <&PALchat1> Yes Lynne Thanks You! :) See ya all later..... $1 per page for what SUe....just anything that you print Now most of my "customers" for PA stuff are small business owners, like house painters, beauty shops, tea houses, etc. Rather than the individual person. See my problem is I used to design signs LARGE ones and now I want to do little jobs if that is understandable. I still do small jobs for coworkers and friends. Ouch! That's a load of dough.... when I was doing newsletters for businesses here, kinkos were charging me $1.10 per sheet if there was a drop of color on letter I'm having a LITTLE trouble keeping up. Has anyone asked a question yet that we haven't answered? You will make more money selling to businesses than private individuals. I can always count on my commercial accts Anyone from Canada here? <&PALchat1> Yes J&J... but you have to add a design fee and increase it for heavier paper, etc.... <&PALchat1> ok I have a question are you ready? Commercial accounts are definitely better money. I make most of my money buy doing buz cards for other crafters in the area. <&PALchat1> What do the pro's think of the $1 per page thing? I love getting the business card reprint orders. I'm ready Beccas ok this is my dillema I did some candybars for a friends daughters birthday and she took them to school and handed them out That works sometimes. But it depends on how graphic and color intense the page is. Also, if there is cutting involved, then you need to build that time into it. if I may say I charge a lot more than a $1 per page for my print ready proofs <&PALchat1> explain, print ready proofs? Well now I have 3 possible orders but I just don't know what to charge we go from low income to middle here Yesterday...I was trying to price placemats for the local Yacht Club..now that would just be a pic and some text then laminated...wouldnt take long to do....do you know by the time I rang around to find about colour copying and laminating it would cost $4.00 per mat.... and if I am doing all the printing, cutting, layouts, etc I charge a lot more for set up Beccas - send me a private email later and we'll go through the pricing for your items. ok thanks First, I don't sell the candy bars, just the wraps. But I know a lot of PAL sell the actual candy with the wrap. Id be interested in that, too, Teapot Oh no I would sell just the wrap cut of course can you get in trouble, say with hershey co when selling the bars with the wraps? Me too Teapot. Good question. I don't know. I just don't want to be responsible for selling food to people. For one thing, it is illegal to sell the candy unless you have a food license. <&PALchat1> BTW folks.... I hope none of you plan to Mail the candy to paying customers... especially in Florida. put me on your list too teapot , just for comparison sake if nothing else k? That answers that. Thanks, Dar. that's the way I feel, but my customers who own their own business only buy them that way. ya'll talkin bout the hershey bars? I may as well join the me too list Thanks yup Hershey bars or any other candy I don't deal with the bars themselves, I sell only the covers then ya needa know it's illegal to sell em without permission from teh candy co You're taking a chance, Pepper. If someone got sick and decided it was the candy, you would be responsible. I sometimes get an order from the township to design some kind of forms. And also I have designed there letterhead, envelopes, cemetery deeds and charged a fee for the design and give them 50 copies of each document. But now I have to try and figure out prices for more documents and don't know what to charge, any ideas? <&PALchat1> What about arranging for them to purchase the candy and you wrap it, has anyone done that? When you all get Dar's price list, just remember it's only a guideline. What kind of paper do you print on to make the mats? good point...i'll make that clear to them We covered that jasta I have the customer provide their own candy and I charge for the wrapping! there is a gal from OK that sells the covers and bars in a local craft shop and after a while the bars begin to start showing thru what with all the handling and all now back up to the list teapot...whatever it is, put me on it. What mats, Chris? Yes, that works - if they buy the candy. I was just going to print the initial one and then get the rest photo copied....it would not be worth while me printing 100.... Hey I just had the light bulb appear before me hershey tole me NO but the co that makes kit kats HB Reese Candy Co gave me written permission longs somewhers on the wrapper it says they made the candy I need the price list also I'm not sending a price list. Let me get that straight. I'm only going to help Beccas do some pricing on some items she has. But if they are color, it cost $1 per page here to copy!! oh shoot. :) LOL. oh sorry about that teapot I have a question... Go, Miyah I sell uncut sheets 15 to a page here to four or five business for 4 bucks a sheet no candy involved a 25 dollar intitial set up fee Everyone has to get a haircut right and they usually go to the same place what about making a small booklet of what you sell for customers to read? I am curious about the record keeping and all that legal stuff how do you keep it organized and what do you keep I have been selling my stuff for 3 years and most of my work has been with schools working with them on fund-raising projects. This has been a great source fo work for me. great idea beccas and it works too Boy, when Miyah asks a question, she asks a BIG one! LOL feeling like a sheep here

Yes I am sorry as well..do not bother trying to send to me..I thought you were talking about basic prices I use Quickbooks and have for 2 years now. My tax man loves it. :-) start with the initial inventory of what you have add and subtract as you go And do you get those licences & permits before you even get started? yes sara I did I got two of my companys from the lady at the post office I made some candys for thank you's cuz they gimmee free box space for kards for Kids I'm just now converting to QuickBook myself. I use Quickbooks too and love it! Isn't that expensive? then you can buy wholesale and save on tax monies as well <&PALchat1> OK, how does it work when you are going to use stuff you have already once you become "legal"? My Quicken programs came as a package deal with my new computer. I don't know what they sell for <&PALchat1> I'm working on getting the licences and permits currently. <&PALchat1> Quickbooks is around $100 for the latest version What are quickbooks? Mine came with my newest puter Quickbooks has a few packages. I have one that was about $80.00. It's a tax write off though. I think you can get Quickbooks at Sam's a little cheaper, but I have not looked lately. <&PALchat1> Sara, it's accounting software paper goods at paper places, big card shops have sales of off season stuff (paper as well) buy it for what they paid for it keystone is at least 2 xs the cost Looks like we have a lot of "watchers" in the room who haven't asked any questions. Accounting Software As far as previous inventory - it's a good reason to keep ALL receipts. Previous computer equip can be depreciated fro the time of purchase Everyone keeps asking mine before I can! when you buy at wholesale, you then can double (keystone) your product + add the cost of labor, etc Have you ever had a customer that kept changing their mind and what did you do about it? I had one customer like that, and it was a pain in the @#$@% I charged a setup fee <&PALchat1> ok, I have been keeping receipts. I have had ppl change their minds, but once they sign the agreement (very simple one) that's it I finally told that customer that my business had gotten so busy (which it had) that I wasn't going to be able to take any new orders from her. Yes, that's a problem, Beccas. You have to be firm with them and don't give them a lot of choices to confuse them. however recently I went to print out 500 items for a business, and they made a mistake in their telephone number what a trial Not a lot of choices is a REAL good tip! <&PALchat1> DKKat, did you explain photo ready proofs? ok not too many choices and get an agreement They do get overwhelmed. Darlene - how many choices - like 3 maybe? Get the design fee. My max is 3. photo ready proofs?? Depends on the type of business I do 3 business cards for $25 design/set up fee. If they don't like 'em, they get 3 new ones for another $25 Do you all sit down or talk on the phone before you meet them to get an idea? photo ready proofs are for businesses that want like over 500 copies of something and I then make print proofs that i take to a printer and they do the work from there Yes, 3 is good. I design about 3 and then give them to them for approval and tell them that they can interchange fonts and graphics. They ususally do the rest of the work for me. <&PALchat1> OIC... thanks On average - how long do you spend on designing something? (I realize it varies) but you mention design fee is usually $25. I have a question. Do you all deliver or do they come to your house to pick-up? I had one customer who bought the paper then the business Pays the printer and I get a check in the mail for the proof I charge $20 a page for proofs Most of my initial work with the customer has been by phone. On average, I can do the design in an hour or less.