We knew Marilyn Manson would stick up for Satan, but jaws hit the floor when KORN's Jonathan Davis stopped dreaming about sex and went into bat for God. But then, he thinks the man upstairs invented angst rock...
Quite frankly, when you are as hungover as Korn singer Jonathan Davis is right now, the last thing you fancy pondering is the meaning of life. Far higher on your list of priorities is standing up, in order to get to the fridge.
Yet here we are, sitting in a restaurant in the Royal Lancaster Hotel (scene of the apocalyptic Kerrang! Awards only two days previously), preparing to discuss such cerebral concerns as religion, reincarnation and whether or not God has a big white beard. Like the rest of us, Jonathan is still feeling the effects of alcoholic combat shock. A pig has shat in his head.
We nurse glasses of iced Evian water, as Bayswater Road buzzes along relentlessly outside. Beyond it lies Hyde Park. The perfect scene to stare out over, while musing on the Big Questions.
Marilyn Manson's musings on evil have already (dis)graced issue 666. Now, it's time to bring on Planet Rock's good guy...
Kerrang!: Were you brought up with any kind of religious beliefs?
Jonathan Davis: "Yeah. The first religion I was brought up in was
Presbyterian. I was a little kid. I always believed in God and stuff
like that, but I mainly wanted to hang out with all my friends at
Sunday School. It wasn't about worshipping or nothing.
"After that, my father became a crazy, non-denominational
pentecostal... thing. You know, those crazy people who lay hands on
people and they pass out and stuff? He became a holy-roller.
Presbyterians have music and sing, but weren't allowed to clap. In the
Church Of Christ, they don't believe in music. They sing everything a
cappella."
K!: How did you react to people trying to cast the devil out of you?
JD: "I thought it was ridiculous. When I was 16, the priests also
made my Dad burn all of my Motley Crue posters and tapes. That sucked!
I had to start listening to my tapes when he wasn't around.
"After that, my Mom got married to my stepdad. They wanted to
be married in Catholic church, so I had to become Catholic too. My
grandmother had to sign some certificates, because they considered me
a bastard child because I wasn't with my real father. The certificates
said they renounced that marriage and I wasn't a bastard child any
more. So, I was baptised Catholic and took my first communion all at
one big Easter vigil, during which my parents got married, too. So it
was like, 'Wow!'."
K!: So, you've been around...
JD: "Yeah, I've been through all these different religions. Through
the mill! I stayed Catholic after that event, and I was working at the
mortuary so I got to be around the clergy a lot. That's when I found
out that religion in general is really just whack. I totally believe
in God and Jesus and all that stuff, but I worship them in my own way.
I don't believe in organised religion - I dealt with them hand in hand,
and a whole bunch of Catholic priests tried to molest me. Telling me I
was gay and I should go home with them and stuff. I was 18, so you
couldn't exactly call it child molestation. But if you're gonna wear
the cloth, don't do that shit!
"Plus, Catholicism is against so many fucking stupid things,
like homosexuals and birth control. It's like, 'Let's all get AIDS and
die!'. I don't understand why people who are supposed to be good,
loving Christians say all those things. The older I got, the more I
started thinking. Religion just tears people apart. People kill each
other over it. There's wars over it."
K!: Do you believe in the concept of Heaven and Hell?
JD: "If there wasn't good, there wouldn't be evil. It's an energy
force that has to be there. Karma's connected, too - it's all
connected. I believe in reincarnation, where your spirit grows like a
child does. The first couple of lifetimes, your soul is like a kid.
Then your spirit grows, and eventually you cross over to nirvana. I
can't fathom billions and gazillions of souls up there. I think God
had something in mind. That would explain why so many people have
experiences where they feel they've been here before."
K!: How old is your own soul?
JD: "Hell if I know! I think it's pretty old, but I don't know.
Don't think it's old-old. I get that d�ja vu feeling all the time."
K!: That must be easy to get on tour.
JD: "Yeah. Like, 'I'm sure I've sung this song before!'."
K!: But if we can't remember our previous existences, what's the
point? How are we supposed to learn anything from life to life?
JD: "I think you just do. It's built-in."
K!: What is your concept of Hell?
JD: "When you get baptised, Catholicism tells you that you're going
to Hell. But Hell is what you make it. If you're a bad person and
you just suck, you're gonna go to Hell. Hell won't be like fire and
damnation - whatever your hell is, you'll be there. (Korn bassist)
Fieldy said if he dies and goes to Hell, they're gonna send him to
Germany!"
K!: Ever had any supernatural experiences?
JD: "Oh yeah. When I was a kid, I grew up seeing ghosts all the time
- they were like translucent white flashes of energy. The older I get,
I'm not seeing ghosts as much - which is kind of like the whole Peter
Pan thing. But I know there's a force out there. I saw my
great-grandmother and great-uncle - my aunt told me they're my
guardian angels. She writes books on astrology, and how she astrally
projects herself into different planes and houses. It confuses the
shit out of me, to be honest. I kind of think she's off her rocker a
little bit..."
K!: Do you believe people with stories of dying on operating tables,
and seeing light at the end of the tunnel?
JD: "Well, I died when I was a little kid, because I had asthma really
bad. My heart stopped, and I didn't see no damn light or hear any
music! I'm sure it happens, though - maybe it wasn't my time. I guess
I wasn't truly dead."
K!: What does God look like?
JD: "I think He's one big superbeing that has all our personalities.
I guess He made us, so we're his children or whatever. I think of Him
as a big energy force that could be human if he wanted to be. But I
don't believe that stereotypical image of Him with the long, white,
flowing beard. And Jesus was born in Jerusalem, so He would have to be
Arabian or black. He wouldn't be a blond-haired white boy!"
K!: Have you ever read the Bible?
JD: "Yeah, I have two of them. I've got an old antique one that my
girlfriend's father bought her, because he's a devout Catholic. He
always said he's praying for our souls, because we've had a kid out of
wedlock. Whenever we go out, he introduces me as her husband because
he's so embarrassed. That's kinda funny."
K!: What's the Bible all about, then?
JD: "I have no clue, man! I don't understand it. I understand the
New Testament with the story of Christ and everything. I don't
understand the concept that God moved these people to write this book
and it all got changed in translation. I'd like to read the original
manuscripts. It has to have gotten twisted, to what certain people
wanted it to be."
K!: How will you raise your own son, religiously?
JD: "I've kept him from being baptised Catholic. I want him to grow
up and do what he wants to do. When he says, 'I wanna go to church,
Dad', I'll back him up and we'll talk about God, but not religion. If
he wants to go to church, though, I won't make him go by himself. I'll
drop him off and pick him up afterwards!
"He goes to church now, actually, with his grandpa. They show
the kids all the cute little pictures of Jesus with lambs and stuff. I
guess that's good for a kid, when I think about it."
K!: Do you ever pray?
JD: "I pray all the time. I'm not gonna say 'Screw God' and all that.
I owe all this to Him. I mean, I worked my ass off, but I was born
with the skill. Hell, yes. I pray to give me the breaks. I'll never
know till I die whether He did it all, but I guess that's my belief."
K!: What do you make of the theory that God was an alien?
JD: "I've heard that theory. I could fathom the idea of the world
being some crazy alien experiment, or some giant ant farm. But I don't
know, man. I think there's something more than that. I can see the
theory of relativity, but something had to make it happen. I can't
see that we're evolved from fish or monkeys, or anything like that."
K!: What's the meaning of life?
JD: "The meaning of life is to sit here, being hungover! People have
been trying to figure it out since existence began. All I know is,
when I had a kid and I stared down at him, something happened to me.
I thought, 'This is why I'm here - to pass myself on to another little
human being'. Somehow, that makes sense to me. You grow up, you have
kids, you die, and a piece of you goes on. But I don't know what the
true meaning of life is. To me, it seems to be pain and things
sucking!
"But watching my kid being born was the most beautiful thing I
ever saw. David (Silveria, Korn drummer) just had his little boy last
night. And Fieldy has his in another month. We're gonna be a family
band!"
K!: The Heavensgate cult suicides earlier this year: a funny old
business all around, eh?
JD: "Psychos! That was bizarre. I tried finding that website, but I
couldn't. Maybe the FBI shut it down. But all those people, 39 of
them, killed themselves to catch a comet - a mothership! I don't know
how that guy (Marshal Applewhite) actually warped their minds to do
that, to take their lives. They all died in Nikes too, so Nike's stock
went up overnight!"
K!: Everyone looked so happy in those 'goodbye' videos they filmed
before they killed themselves...
JD: "Yeah! They were just about to take some downers and some vodka.
Pass out, and just die! Then there was one guy who stayed around and
covered them all up, then killed himself. All so they could catch a
lift on a mothership... I guess that goes to show you - we could all be
worshipping something which is totally made up."
K!: What do you think of Satanism?
JD: "Satanism is cool, too. From what I've learned, from (Marilyn)
Manson telling me stuff and reading up on my own, they basically let
you do what you want to do. It's not all about evil, death and
'Satan!'. It's about good and evil, being an animal and doing what
you're gonna do. I'm not the spokesperson for Satanism, but it's cool
and I respect that religion. I just don't like the people who are into
the whole 'Hail Satan, I am the Devil!' thing. That's stupid -
drinking blood and sacrificing cats, or whatever. No!"
K!: Surely all that 'Do what thou wilt' business wouldn't really work,
when it came down to it?
JD: "(Shakes head) Mmm-mmm. It would be total anarchy. It'd be like
that movie, 'Heavy Metal', where everyone's killing each other -
remember that? It would just suck. It would help the population
problem, but... Everyone would be walking around with guns, and if you
looked at somebody wrong - pow! That's kinda going on with gangs and
stuff, but not in general society."
K!: Do you think any comparisons can be drawn between religous
fanatics and avid music fans?
JD: "I guess. Music fans follow bands around and they believe in 'em.
I followed Duran Duran around, and I got to meet Simon Le Bon last
night and I thought I was gonna faint! You just have teen idols that
you look up to. Religious fanatics look up to God and do what they
think God would want them to do. But I guess musicians are tangible
objects that people can see, touch and meet, whereas religious fanatics
are believing in something they can't see, or just feel."
K!: Would God like Korn?
JD: "I think so, yeah. What we do is honest. And if he created
everything, that means he created angst!"
Commandment: There is only one God.
JD says: "I believe in that. I don't wanna worship no other God. It
depends what He thinks worship is, though."
Commandment: Thou shall not worship false idols.
JD says: "In the Bible, when homeboy was leading them to the promised
land, they made a golden cow and people were worshipping it. God got
pissed. I don't worship no golden cow."
Commandment: Thou shall not take God's name in vain.
JD says: "Oh, screw that. Everybody does it!"
Commandment: Thou shall observe the Sabbath.
JD says: "I don't honour that. Being on tour, I gotta work some
days!"
Commandment: Thou shall obey your father and mother.
JD says: "I have the utmost respect for them - they put up with me for
18 years. Doesn't mean I have to totally like them, though..."
Commandment: Thou shall not kill.
JD says: "There's no reason to kill anybody. But there's always an
exception to the rule - if someone's going to kill me, I'll kill them.
But if I had a gun, I'd just shoot their kneecaps so they couldn't
walk."
Commandment: Thou shall not commit adultery.
JD says: "Fair enough. Once you tie the knot, you shouldn't do that.
But I know humans, and males especially. Relationships are more
difficult now than when Jesus walked the earth."
Commandment: Thou shall not steal.
JD says: "I'm not down with stealing - I'm not gonna take anything
that's not mine."
Commandment: Thou shall not lie.
JD says: "I wouldn't make up lies about my homeboys, unless they piss
me off. I'm nice to everybody!"
Commandment: Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's wife or goods.
JD says: "I could be jealous of a house, but jealous of a wife? I
don't get that way."
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