Warhammer 40,000 3rd Edition Q&A
Overall Questions
by Jervis Johnson
Q: Do frag grenades or cover override the penalty of striking last conferred by a power fist?
P: No
Q: On Pg 167 there is a rule that states that if you upgrade your
weapons, you lose all weapons you started with. Does this mean
A) You lose all weapons of the same Type
B) This only applies to Shooty weapons
C) Something else.
P: You loose *all* the model's original weapons apart from grenades. Note that character wargear is bought in addition to the model's normal weapons, and doesn't replace them.
Q: In order to start a second Army, and thus a second orgnaisation chart, must the first army be totally full?
P: No, but you must have taken all compulsory choices.
Q: Can troops assault on the same turn as they disembarked from a vehicle?
P: Yes
Q: Troops deploying from deep strike cannot assault that turn, so what
happens if they land in Base to Base contact?
A) They fight that turn, no one charged
B) They fight that turn, and are considered to have charged
C) They don't fight for one whole turn
D) They can't land in Base to Base
P: D, and must be placed 1" away from the enemy (you're not allowed to move within 1" of the enemy except in the assault phase).
Q: We've haven't seen or heard anything about the Necrons since they were released. One rumour I heard was that they were to be released with a codex around July-August of 1999. Is this accurate or have you given up on Necrons.
P: Hmmmm, so much for the yes or no questions ( :)). A Necron list will appear in WD quite soon, and then we'll do a full Codex for them later on.
Q: To put it more generically, we noticed that transports have a box around them. It seems to separate transport entries from the section they are in. Should the location of a transport entry be taken as significant?
P: No, they are upgrades and as such their 'location' in the list is more a matter of convenient layout than anything else.
Q: Can shots from a flamer be repositioned as blast markers can? If not, is it intentional that players, to pick out specific models, can use flamers, or does the targeted player have the option of removing different models?
P: No, the flamer can't be repositioned - the idea is that you can (using a WW2 simile) use a flame thrower to knock out a machine gun nest rather than the infantry squad it's with. As these are very short ranged weapons it seemed a suitable reward for getting into a position to use them.
Also bear in mind that the flamer template must be placed so that it will affect the maximum number of models in the target unit.
Q: Do power weapons other than a power fist have any increased effect on vehicles?
P: No. Power weapons only have bonus affects against things with armour saving throws.
Q: A Tech-marine allows his squad to re-roll one failed roll to hit per turn. Can the Marine player wait until his whole squad has fired to see which die he re-rolls?
P: See next question.
Q: The generic question is about re-rolls as a whole. When a re-roll is granted for whatever reason, can the player hold off until the end of the time-frame the re-roll covers to make the re-roll?
P: With re-rolls the convention which we use is that the re-roll must be used before any further dice rolls are made, so you can't 'go back' after rolling to wound or what have you and then decide to use a re-roll to hit.
Q: For determining the results of close combat, do models that were not in contact (or for that matter not even within 2") count for "outnumbering" the loser? Example:
1 Ork in mega armor and a mob of 30 Gretchin assault 5 Eldar. The Ork contacts 4 Eldar models (hey, it could happen), but only one Gretchin manages to make it into contact, with on other being 2" away from an Eldar model. If the Eldar kill 2 Gretchin but not the Ork, and the Ork kills 3 Eldar, are the Eldar outnumbered (and by quite a margin!) or not (seeing as now the Ork is the only model in contact with Eldar)?
P: Yes. Outnumbering is done on a unit vs unit basis, so even if one model from each unit is fighting, they'll get the benfit of all their buddies backing them up when it comes to intimidating the opposition. Likewise if the models actually fighting are killed but their are a million more of them in the unit, they'll still outnumber the unit they were fighting.
Q: When determining if a side is outnumbered, is it worked out on a squad for squad basis or as a whole per side? For example, if I have five 5 man squads assaulting two 10 man squads and a dreadnought and the whole thing is all intermingled, do I outnumber the "side" with 31 models if I win with my "side" of 25 models?
P: Work it out as whole sides, just like totaling up wounds inflicted in multiple combats (p69).
11) Q: must it move around interposing models to get around to a spot where he can contact the enemy's base?
Here's a diagram to illustrate what I am asking:
e E e
XXXXBAXXX
C
X,A, & B = friendly models
e = enemy trooper
E = a different enemy that model C wants to hurt very much
C = a vengeful friendly model
Can model C go "though" B and A to hit model E, (since if he goes around he may not get into base contact)?
P: He would have to go around and engage the closest unengaged enemy model via the shortest possible route - e rather than E
Q: The book states that in an assault, models more than 2" away from the enemy can only be removed as casualties once all the models in base contact and all models within 2" of an enemy have been removed. This can lead to an interesting situation that seems to not be covered. Let's say that a squad of 9 Chaos Veterans and character in Terminator armor are assaulted by some Orks. The character and three Veterans are contacted, each being touched by one Ork. The Orks do quite well and manage to inflict 5 unsaved wounds on Veterans. The character in Terminator armor is unscathed. According to what is written, only two Veterans are removed since the Terminator is still in contact, thus precluding the removal of any models more than 2" away from the attackers.
P: All the models within 2" of the attackers (not just in base contact) would be potential casualties even if the Terminator survives. See below about allocation of attacks for some possible exceptions.
Q: Models within 2" of the enemy are allowed to fight in close combat, getting just one attack. Does this one attack have to be made against one the enemy models he is within 2" of?
P: Yes.
Q: If he is within 2" of two different models with varying skills and/or abilities, does he get to pick which to attack?
P: He would be able to pick a target just like someone in base to base contact. Also see later...
Q: Under shooting, it says that models with multiple wounds are removed once the squad takes enough wounds to eliminate one whole model. Does the same apply in hand to hand? Example:
3 Nurglings fight one on one, against 3 Marines. Each Marine does one wound on his stand of Nurglings before the Nurglings get to attack.
a)Does one stand go away?
P: Yes. How the wounds are suffered makes no difference, the same rule applies (note that the rule doesn't specify shooting as the source of the wounds, just wounds suffered).
b) If one is removed, does the (in this case) Nurgle player get to pick which one?
P: Yes, standard rules apply.
c) If the Nurglings were facing off against a Marine Captain, a normal Marine, and a Techmarine instead of just three marines, I would like to remove the Nurgling facing the normal Marine so that I can still fight the other two. Because there are different weapon skills involved, and there were different to hit rolls, it would seem odd to remove just any old Nurgling.
P: See later
Q: There are 10 Orks in the squad that some Marines are shooting at. Five Orks are in cover, five are not. The Marines roll to hit with 10 dice, scoring 8 hits (good shot!). Of there 7 wound. This means that 7 saves need to be taken.
According to the rules: "...the owning player has to remove casualties from amongst the models in the open first until there are none left..."
P: Right, to use your example the Orks in the open would get no save and be removed (bolters AP5, Ork save 6= no save) and then two Orks in cover would get a cover save.
The problem is that the save still needs to be taken before any casualties are removed at all. The Orks have, let's say, a save of 6. The ones in cover have a cover save of 5+. Does the whole squad get the cover modifier?
P: Simply take hits and make armour saves as appropriate for the ones in the open, and then if any wounds are left over apply them to models in cover and make appropriate cover or armour saves (which ever is better) for them.
Q: Do models that are not in base contact in an assault get to use their special combat rules and/or weapons for that one attack the get?
(Banshee mask to allow a Banshee to go first and use their power weapon to stirke, for example).
P66 "In all cases models can only use their special attacks if they are in base to base contact with the enemy"
For example:
There a five Striking Scorpions being attacked, one on one, by 5 Marines. Directly behind each Scorpion is a Banshee. None of the
Banshees are in contact with anything, but they are all within 2" of a Marine (one each). The Marines charged.
Do the Banshees attack first (if at all, seeing as how no one in their squad was in contact)?
P: Strictly speaking they do not fight at all as the Banshee unit is not engaged in close combat by the enemy.
Q: You commentary on Tank Shock, in the "Ultimate Secrets" section, says that a tank cannot try to shock models in close combat. If a squad has three members in base contact, can a tank try to shock the members not in contact?
P: No. The same deal applies.
a) Is the whole squad "in close combat" and therefor ineligible to be shocked?
P: Yep.
Q: If a model is run over by the left track of a predator (or whatever) using Tank Shock, can the model get out of the way to the right of the tank, passing under the tank to do so?
P: This is down to whatever local conventions you guys want to adopt, I can't even imagine what kind of advantage this could gain you, the rule is that models resume their positions when the tank passes.
Q: Must a model be moved out of the way of Tank Shock in the direction that keeps it under the tank for the least amount of time (in other words, must it take the shortest path out from under the tank)?
P: Seems like a decent convention but it ain't what the rules say.
Q: A unit (Marines) has some members who reached the enemy (Orks), and an assault was fought. They won, but the enemy passed their Ld test, so it wound up a Draw (it is a Draw in this case, correct?). Both units moved up unengaged models 6", but even with that far a move both units wound up with models not engaged with the enemy.
a) Could the unengaged Orks shoot at the unengaged Marines from the unit?
P: No they can't. Units shoot at units in 40K , and you can't shoot at a target in close combat.
b) Could the same Orks shoot at another marine squad?
P: Yes they can.
c) Or are those Orks considered in an Assault, so they cannot shoot at anyone, and must attempt to get into the Assault.
P: No, the rules is 'Models in base-to-base contact may not fire weapons...'
d) Ditto for the unengaged Marines in their next turn
P: The same answers apply.
Q: When repositioning the blast marker in your unit after an opponent has hit it, can you reposition it so that it covers the same number of models within your unit plus one or more from his side?
P: Yes you can.
Q: If you move a vehicle exactly 12", can you disembark from that vehicle (the example says less than 12" and the rules state as long as it didn't move more than 12")?
P: If you move 12" you may disembark.
Q: Can characters joining a unit increase its size for morale checks(regrouping and casualty morale checks specifically)?
P: No.
Q: Can troops assault after disembarking from a vehicle that has moved less than 12"?
P: Yes they can (and jolly effective it is too!).
Q: If a character is 2" or less to two or more squads, must he designate which one he is in? If so, can he change the designation from turn to turn?
P: No (he *may* join a unit). Yes.
Q: If a dreadnought has twin-linked heavy bolters does it get:
a) 3 shots re-rolling misses
or
b) 6 shots re-rolling misses
when it shoots?
P: The answer is a.
Q: You can't shoot at an Independent Character if he's within 6" of a unit, unless he's the closest model at short range. Does this hold true if the IC is say a Hive Tyrant or Avatar near a unit of small critters (more than twice the height of the unit)?
P: By the rules this is the case, though as a house rule you might want to allow players to target them.
Q: Unit A (Marines) wins a combat, and Unit B (Orks) rolls, say, an 8 to flee. 5 inches behind them is a friendly unit C (Gretchin). Marines elect to pursue, and rolls a 10. Do they still run down the Orks, as they did indeed roll higher than the enemy, or do they smack into the Gretchin & the Orks escape behind the Grots? Is it a simple matter of if you roll higher to pursue than the enemy rolled to flee, then they are destroyed, and the pursuers engage fresh enemy if they ran into them?
P: The Orks are destroyed, and then you make a sweeping advance into the Gretchin. Beating the score "represents the victors shooting the enemy down as they retreat, scattering them beyond recover..." so you don't actually have to catch up with the enemy models, just speed them on their way, as it were.
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This next series of questions revolves around a single rules concept. This is The Big One that we have all been debating at work. The questions are based on the following quotes:
Quote 1: p63, "Each model base-to-base with an enemy strikes...."
Quote 2: p63, "Models not touching an enemy, but within 2" of one, may make one Attack..." (this does not state that the attack must be against the specific enemy the model is near)
Quote 3: p64, "The dice roll needed depends on the relative Weapon Skills (WS) of the attacker and his foe."
Quote 4: p64, "Where large numbers of combatants have the same characteristics it is often convenient to roll for their attacks together.
Since all of the Space Marines need the same roll to hit and the same roll to wound you may as well roll them together and then allow the Eldar player to allocate the hits..."
Quote 5: p64, "Ordinarily we simply assume that the warrior is contributing his shots and blows to the swirling combat going on. This means we don't have to worry about whether individual models strike their respective opponents in base contact. However, if a model is in base contact with models with varying Weapon Skill and Toughness, it will be necessary to allocate attacks to different targets..."
Quote 6: p65, "...cross reference the attacker's Strength characteristic (S) with the defender's Toughness (T)..."
Quote 7: p65, "Models struck and wounded in close combat can attempt an armour save..."
Quote 8: p66, "Casualties must be removed from the models in base contact with the enemy first, then from models that are fighting near the enemy (ie within 2"). Casualties can only be carried over onto models more than 2" from an enemy where all other models have been slain."
Quote 9: p66, "...it's generally assumed that players will roll all attacks of the same Initiative value together...However, if both players agree you can resolve attacks model by model. In this case simply remove casualties as they occur."
Whew! Given the above quotes, some odd things can happen. Here are the questions:
Q: A Bloodthirster and 3 Bloodletters are lined up one on one each against 4 Terminators with Power Fists. For whatever reason the Chaos player has crappy rolls and the Terminators get to attack having taken no losses. The Terminators roll to hit against the opponents they each are touching (quote 3 "his foe"). Because the Bloodthirster has a different WS and T score, the Terminator touching him must roll his attacks separately from his brothers' (quote 5). The Bloodthirster takes one hit and one Bloodletter is hit. A roll to wound is made against each respective model (quote 6). Not surprisingly they both wound. The Bloodletter fails the save and so does the Bloodthirster (so much for Invulnerable!). Both took their save individually as directed by quote 7. The Bloodthirster was down to one wound left as a result of some previous action. This would seem to make for one dead Bloodletter and one dead Bloodthirster. Yea for the Marines! However, the Chaos player calmly picks up two Bloodletters instead. He as done exactly what he is instructed to do by quote 8. He has removed casualties from models in contact. The rulebook makes no statement along the lines of "casualties must be removed from models in contact with the model that inflicted the wound." Understandably, the Marine player gets upset. He says that his guy was touching the Bloodthirster so he got to attack him (quote 1), he rolled against the Bloodthirster's WS (quote 3), rolled against his Toughness (quote 6), and got past the Bloodthirster's Invulnerable save (quote 7). He feels that the wound should go on the Bloodthirster and asks to be allowed to specify that the attack is worked out on the Bloodthirster. The Chaos player says no, that the Marine player was not touching models of different WS and T (as required to designate an attack by quote 5 " if a model is in contact with..."), and so has no right to specify the Bloodthirster as the victim of the attack, even though the attack was worked out against it. The Marine player then claims the book says he has the right to work out his attacks one model at a time and remove casualties as he goes. The Chaos player pulls out quote 9 and says he does not agree to play that way and would prefer to play the recommended way. He goes on to say that even if he did them one at a time, he could still remove the Bloodletter since quote 9 does not change from where casualties are removed.
P: You've hit on something which can be a bit confusing at first but its easier to understand if you remember the rules explain fairly simple combats between two units of basic models. In situations where you get opposing forces with different stats (not just WS & T---Joe) the easiest thing is to think of each group of models with different stats as a separate unit. So for example you're fighting an Ork bodyguard comprising a Warboss plus some Gretchin and Nobz. In terms of allocating attacks and taking casualties the Warboss is a unit, Nobz are another unit and the Gretchin are a third unit, even though ordinarily they make up a single unit in game terms. Attacks allocated against the Gretchin unit roll to hit and wound vs the Gretchin stats, and casualties must be taken from amongst the Grots, likewise attacks against the Nobz and the Warboss. Characters also count as a separate unit in close combat even if they are nominally part of a squad (i.e. veteran sergeants). So if a model is in base contact with several enemy 'units' it could allocate attacks against either of them. It is the same for a model within 2" of several enemy units. The allocated attacks will be worked out against the appropriate unit and casualties are taken from there.
This broadens the concept of allocating attacks considerably, but works from a principle that is already established in the rules.
Q: Assuming that you say that this is all bull and the models must be removed from those touched if the WS and T scores differ, that still does not rule out another odd one. Now we have 5 Orks facing off against 5 Marines, one of which is an Apothecary (or Leader, Vet Sgt, Std Bearer, or Techmarine - all of whom have a WS and T that is the same as a standard Marine). They line up one on one just like the example above. It goes pretty much the same way. The Marines do no damage to the Orks. Two Orks do wounds to the Marines, one of which was inflicted by the Ork who is touching the Apothecary. For the sake of argument, let's even say that the reason the attack on the Apothecary was worked out with a different die or die roll was because that Ork has a higher strength than his kin (from a Power Fist, or whatever). We now have a situation where the Marine player can say "Hey! The WS & T scores are all the same, so you are not entitled to pick off my Apothecary and I am allowed to remove a different model of the same WS and T instead, so I am taking off some two normal Marines."
Can the Marine player do this?
P: Assuming attacks were allocated against the Apothecary as he is a character, he would be taken as a casualty, as per page 66, removing casualties.
Q: There is even one further "step down." What if the model was a heavy bolter or flamer equipped trooper instead? Could another model, whose WS & T is the same as the heavy weapon trooper, be removed instead of the heavy bolter?
I know that in shooting the player is allowed to remove any model from the squad so as to avoid losing the different weapons, but there is no reference to this in the assault section.
P: The same rules apply as in shooting, so the owning player can keep his heavy weapons alive if he likes, this is because we are talking in terms of a single unit (the Space Marines) taking casualties rather than a bunch of different units (ie Warboss, Nobz, Grots).
Q: According to page 75, under Allocating Attacks: "..unlike ordinary troopers who many only do so if their opponents have different Weapon Skills and Strengths." Again, this is a situation where, like quote 5 above, the character is actually touching two or more models. In this case however, it says that characters can always allocate his attacks against models in base to base.
In light of that, does this mean that a character could choose to kill the Bloodthirster from the first example, or the Apothecary or heavy bolter trooper in the latter examples?
P: Aha, as a character is doing the attacking here his special ability means he can allocate attacks to killing a specific model (heavy bolter, Bloodthirster or what have you) and force that specific model to be taken as a casualty.
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Q: Do only guess-range ordinance test for pinning?
P: Yes
Q: If all the models in Base to Base contact die, is the unit still engaged? (For drawn combat rules purposes)
P: Yes
Q: When falling back do you:
A) Fall back towards a table edge which touches your deployment zone (e.g. in a recon
mission fall back to either short edge, or the long one)?
B) Fall back towards a table edge IN your deployment zone (i.e. unit must leave table
WITHIN deployment zone) (Especially in corner deployment)?
C) Fall back perpendicular to the main table edge(s) you deployed on?
P: B. You must head for the nearest table edge in your deployment zone.
Q: Are templates and blast markers infinitely high for game purposes?
P: It up to you to decide how to play this. We don't have an official rule, and I've seen it played a number of ways depending on the whim of the players.
Q: Deep striking units must use reserve rules as well, correct?
P: Correct.
Q: In the meat grinder, Deep Striking units are still in reserve, but no one else is?
P: Correct.
Q: Can troops with jump packs move over enemy troops?
P: No.
Q: Can infantry leave combat with a vehicle they have assaulted without falling back?
P: Yes. See 'Results' on p90 of the rulebook.
Colen (not Colin!) McAlister asked the following question about Close Combat:
Warning: View the following ascii art diagram in a proportional font (e.g., Courier New) or it won't work.
N N
N N NL
N C
N: Noise Marine
C: Carnifex
L: Lictor
This is the situation that appeared in a game last night. A Carnifex and Lictor charged in, the Carnifex killing his only opponent, the Lictor not (damn, I love Power Armour). In the next turn, my Noise Marines moved around to restore coherency, vaped the Carnifex with their Sonic Blasters and charged the Lictor, killing it (it had 1 wound left).
Q: Was this allowed?
P: A number of players seem to be having problem with the drawn combats and what to do. The first principle to understand is that a 'drawn combat' is any combat where neither side ends up falling back (see p. 67. '4. Loser Checks Morale' where it says "If they pass [the morale check for loosing the combat] the unit holds its ground and fights on - basically the combat is drawn..."). So as long as neither side falls back, you have a drawn combat.
In a drawn combat then any models from units that took part in the combat *must* move up to 6", getting into base contact with the enemy if at all possible (see p69 'Drawn Combats'). We tend to refer to this as piling or bundling in, and it represents the troops getting 'sucked into' the close combat. Note that this happens even if, at the end of the combat, a unit no longer has models in base contact with the enemy. If a unit took part in close combat, and neither side falls back, then any unengaged models must pile in. Also note that it only applies to units tht fought in close combat, not to other units that were within 6" but did not fight.
To conclude, in the example above, the Noise Marines and the Carnifex should have piled in at the end of the combat.
As an aside on this question I highly recommend that you use the voluntary fall back rules from Andy's designers notes at the back of the rules (where a unit that looses a combat can choose to fall back instead of rolling the dice for it), as this allow you to get units to bug out of a combat they can't win. More importantly, it opens up the enemy to be shot at by your other troops. In the example above this would have allowed the Noise Marines to choose to fall back, rather than getting drawn into a combat they would almost certainly loose, but at the risk of getting destroyed if the Carnifex or Lictor advanced after them and beat theur fall back roll.
Q: Are VPs for non-independant characters calculated seperately, e.g. a Marine Force Commander w/ Command Squad.
P: Yes.
Q: If a barrage lands in HtH, does everyone underneath get hit?
P: Yes
Q: LOS from sponsons is drawn from the weapon to the target, and there are no "fire arcs" on tanks now?
P: Not as such. Instead you must turn the gun so it points at the target. If the gun is glued in place we just assume it could turn as far as it could if it were not glued up. In other words, use 'real' fire arcs based on the model.
Q: Is cover on an ordinace determined
A) In line with the ordinance weapon
B) From the center of the blast
P: B
Q: Do sniper rifles affect the Wraithlord, Avatar, and Greater Demons.
P: Yes
Q: If I have two detachments, can i take one using appendix rules and
one not?
or
If I have two detachments, can i take, say, one Space Marine and one Imperial Guard?
P: Yes to both questions.
Q: When (will?) the thudd gun, mole mortar, rapier laser, and servitor make their comeback?
P: In Chapter Approved in WD.
New 1-30-99:
Q: Please give a clarification on glancing hits. Do these crew stunned results (making the vehicle immobile) really destroy the vehicle?
P: Crew stunned results do _not_ destroy skimmers - they cause them to drift D6" in a random direction. See page 87 of the rules for the full rules. As an aside, it's worth checking out page 87 carefully whenever questions arise on damage results - it includes information not included on the quick *reference* sheet.