JOYCE		LUCK CLUB
DUBLINERS	ULYSSES	THE PORTRAIT

Nestor: Friends, As I said earlier today, I am back with the second chapter. I have lost count of the times I haveread the second chapter. All those times there was this question at the back of my mind: "What has Nestor to do with this chapter?" I found the answer today. Nestor was a king of Pylos who in his old age led his subjects to the Trojan war, where his wisdom and eloquence were proverbial. This answer led to the next question - who is Nestor here? Stephen or Mr. Deasy? Neither is both wise and eloquent. Stephen is wise but not eloquent. Mr. Deasy is not wise but eloquent. What do you people think? Choosing Nestor as the theme of the second chapter suits very well with the choice of Ulysses as the name of the book. As Joyce mocks at the 'worship' of heroic deeds by choosing the name Ulysses, he is mocking at wisdon and eloquency, I feel, by choosing Nestor. Comments are most appreciated. Today, I would like to say something only about Stephen as we meet him in this chapter. (1). It is very obvious that teaching is not his calling. He day dreams a lot when he is supposed to be teaching. (2). He also does not take the kids seriously when he comes up with that riddle and disappoints them with the answer. I could just imagine all these eager faces turned up at him and the disappointment that must have showed on hearing the answer. (3). He carries a big burden being irish - "History, Stephen said, is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake." (4). Stephen is also very much in mourning. He is still very bound to the memories of his mother. "She was no more: the trembling skeleton of a twig burnt in the fire, an odour of rosewood and wetted ashes." Beautiful words. There are lots of beautiful sentences in this chapter. I particularly liked Stephen's reference to algebra: "Across the page the symbols moved in grave morrice, in the mummery of their letters, wearing quaint caps of squares and cubes. Give hands, traverse, bow to partner..." I don't know anybody who talked of exponents, of mathematical operations so poetically! I also had to read the sentence "Mine is far and his secret as our eyes" many many times before I could make any sense of it. Stephen is referring here to his childhood and to the childhood of Sargent, one of his students. The sentence with punctuation, in my opinion, should be "Mine is far, and his, secret as our eyes." Now it is your time! Chandra Hi there Chandra and everyone, i'm glad this list still seems to be alive. If you are not doing anything tomorrow Wed 1 March, at 7pm Eastern time (US and Canada) there will be a discussion held online at (copy of message from Richard Stack) http://anexa.com/joycesulyssesadiscussion . you can go either to the Public Chat room (during the Wednesday evening sessions), or you may go to "Public Discussion" a bulletinboard, where you can post your responses to the following three puzzles. It is hosted by Dr Richard Stack prmarily for his students at college but we arre welcoome to go along, and it's good fun . The focus this week, i think, will be the Aelous section (and perhpas the Lestrygonians as well)chapters 7 and 8. Anyway, onto Nestor. Nestor in the Ulyssean parallel is definitely Deasy, who lectures Stevie with his failed eloqueence, the marvellous misquotage of Othello: "Put but money in thy purse" shows how he has completely misunderstood what Shakespeare was saying in "put money in thy purse". But the herefic joke he tells at the end of the sectin about not letting Jews into Britain has a kind of resounding vileness yet truth and wisdom about it. The Ulyssean parallels that run throughout the book are often misleading. Are they really just Joyce's structure for his masterpiece.? Stephen doesnt make a great teacher but, as the failed artist (or aspiring artist who hasnt quite made it), like many, falls into a teaching job for money. When he talks about "secret as our eyes" he is considering how secrets lie behind our eyes. We dont know what anyone's eyes have eever seen, and it seeems that much of our experience is visual. I cant remember where in the book that Bloom (or is it Stephen) stares at people's eyes and wonders what theyve seen, the secret experiences that seem to lie there. Throughout the chapter he talks in poetry, he is continually trying to compose , nmeditating poetically in a rather contrived yet fluent manner on every object he sees. And it is when his mind really wanders that he becomes the most poetic like when he thinks about the Paris Stock Exchange, the "gold-skinned men counting prices on their gold fingers, etc" Anyway, must get some rest! Thanks bod Your points of Deasy being Nestor is well taken. That means you are attaching more importance to eloquence than to wisdom, right? Does anybody know more in detail the exploits of Nestor? Would like to find out which of the two was his strong point. That is really nice about 'secret as our eyes'. Have myself often wondered what goes on peoples' (and animals') heads. But never thought to pose the question in this way! More later (soon)! Chandra in the iliad, nestor seems to be more noted for his eloquence. he is one of the three greeks who go to plead with achilles to rejoin the cause. he is chosen because he is an effective speaker. Orkono Thanks for this explanation. That helps to understand why Deasy is the Nestor. David Füller (Critical Studies of Key Texts - Ulysses) says the following: "Nestor shows Stephen subject through economic necessity to the wisdom of Mr. Deasy, the wisdom of an old age that has never been young. Like Mulligan the betrayer, Mr. Desay characterises an aspect of Ireland. He is an Ulster Protestant Unionist who admires England for the most materialist of reasons." I don't know that I buy this idea of 'wisdom of an old age that has never been young.' I think that Deasy is one of those innumerable number of people who have made compromises in their lives - perhaps knowingly. Thanks to Bob and Rasik about the info on Gifford's book. Chandra Top! HOME!