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Srila Harikesa Swami: ...I was discussing this the other day with one of my God-brothers, that when we joined the Krsna consciousness movement we did it with a full revolutionary spirit. We wanted to change the world. And that spirit was there throughout the 1970s - to change the world. And through book distribution was the world revolution. We wanted to do it. Because the Bhagavatam makes a revolution in the hearts of men, these books. In the eighties, in the early eighties, this revolutionary spirit was still there in another way for a little while. Then it went on in that same way. But then something happened in the nineties, and I don't know what. But people lost all revolutionary spirit. ************************************
And now the Krsna consciousness movement is very much concerned with being a bona fide religion. In order to survive... ...but who wants to join a bona fide religion? What revolutionary is interested in a bona fide religion? ... ...And we really need this revolutionary kind of people to join us. So we have to show, especially to the university students, to the intelligent class of men, that Krsna consciousness is the solution to the world's problems and that it's actually a revolutionary movement - cultural revolution, social revolution, spiritual revolution on all levels... ...If somebody had told me in 1970 that Krsna consciousness was a bona
fide
religion I would've said... [makes the gesture with his arm as if saying
good by] Good luck! [laughter] [applause] But as far as I knew it was
just a
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Over the last few months, the GBC Executive Committee has listened to feedback and constructive criticism from many individuals in many parts of the movement. It is clear to us, that if we want to revitalise ISKCON, and if we want to please Srila Prabhupada, we must make caring for devotees our top priority. We have tried to carefully analyse the mistakes and failures of the past, and we are now looking for ways to address these urgent issues. In this short letter, I want to show you some of the areas we have identified for action. It is clear that we have made many failures in protecting the vulnerable members of our society. Focused on other priorities, we have neglected our children. We have neglected to teach our children how to become spiritually happy within a functional society. We have been unable to offer suitable engagement for our young people. We have also failed to help them integrate into the wider world. Thus we have failed them spiritually and materially. We have also neglected to take care of the older people and widows. We have not offered proper protection and respect to the women in our movement. We have not understood woman's role as mother of society. We have hurt women by insisting that they behave according to vedic standards, yet we have not been able to offer the proper standard of vedic protection. Widows in our society have been particularly neglected. In the past, we have not protected scholarly and intellectual devotees, neither have we properly facilitated them. Our failures in education are well known. We have not valued our brahminical and priestly class. Our teachers, ministers and counsellors must be well educated, and must be people who we can rely on and trust. Our future education system must include accountability, with clear expectations and guidelines, with qualified guides. We have seen cows and bulls, not as divine assets, but as unproductive economic burdens. Due to such serious offences, there is dissent, division and unhappiness in our society. Due to these grave offences and due to our neglect of the basic principles of Vaishnava culture, our movement is suffering greatly. We have reached the point where these issues absolutely must be addressed, if there is to be any hope for spiritual progress and peace. This year at the annual Mayapur meetings, the GBC understood that it must take a more urgent and progressive role in helping the society resolve these problems. The GBC members recognised that they must move from the mode of control to one of actual leadership. They voted to empower their Executive Committee to analyse and find the means to rectify the fundamental causes of the devotees' unhappiness. The first results of discussion and analysis by the EC, lead us to conclude that we must make urgent steps towards a people centred ISKCON and move away from an institutionally centred one. Our conviction is that this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted. Although the institution is certainly important, it's importance derives from the people within it and not vice-versa. We are currently de-centralising the decision making process in ISKCON, giving power back to the regional bodies, such as the North American Continental Committee, the European Continental committee and others. We want to construct an administration that deals regionally with regional affairs. We are keen to avoid the situation where a distant global administration, unfamiliar with all the regional concerns, makes decisions which have little relevance on a local level. Gradually, we hope to bring real decision making power down as close as possible to the individual members, giving them more responsibility for their lives. This implies that everyone should take responsibility for his or her own development and actions, but at the same time, they should be able to count on receiving some help and guidance from the society to achieve this. Every devotee must be allowed to develop their occupations according to their nature, and not be forced to accept other occupations over longer periods of time simply out of necessity. Each devotee must be properly situated in an appropriate ashram situation. Each devotee must be offered the education to initially help them understand their nature, to get training in the qualities and occupations compatible with their nature and get career guidance and integration into the society in their most advantageous position. To this end the EC is arranging together with the Ministry of Education Development, the creation of Vaishnava Professional Schools, to educate the ISKCON Youth. We see this as the most important work we can do, for such higher forms of education are essential for the integration of the ISKCON youth into the society. We see the youth of ISKCON as the solution to our problems, for through facilitating the needs of the youth, we can understand the needs of all devotees. Marriage is a very important part of most devotees' lives. We want to help prepare devotees to take on the responsibility of marriage, children and family life. Everyone has a responsibility to themselves first, their family, their spiritual master, and thus the society. We want to help educate the devotees in the principles and values, which will help them to lead a satisfying and stable married life. Every society requires guides and leaders in order to prosper. We need guides who will help devotees to determine their natures, work with them to develop a deeper understanding of themselves, give them counselling when needed, and help the leaders do their work better. ISKCON is an educational movement, and we wish to develop courses
of
study to help devotees develop their Vaishnava qualities and
character, as Srila Prabhupada wanted. Education brings self-esteem
When we can establish the culture of guides and leaders, we can serve Krsna together to create a devotee friendly world. By protecting brahminical culture, we can establish a well-directed social body. We cannot rest until we see a society full of productive and happy devotees. Only then will we know that Srila Prabhupada is pleased. I request all devotees to share with us the imperative of applying Srila Prabhupada's teachings. I personally request you to work with us to build a caring, learned, vibrant and effective ISKCON. I look forward to serving you. Your Servant Harikesa Swami
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27-July-1998
Because I love you all very much, I wish to get healthy so that I may continue to help you become self-realized persons who are materially and spiritually balanced and therefore completely happy and satisfied. Thank you very much for your love, support and trust in me during my time of intense rejuvenation and we should be joyous together that such a nice change is taking place. I will remain in seclusion until I am fully capable of taking up service again, when I will serve the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada, and Sri Sri Madhana-mohana with greater strength and enthusiasm (but this time in a stable and balanced way). I request you at this time to look deep within yourselves and carefully examine your own hearts and motivations. If my condition has caused you any pain, then look within yourselves to find the actual causes. Someone who has actually given me their heart will remain in complete trust. I will be for some indefinite time on vacation and in therapy please wish me well, I am always with you in your heart. Your ever well-wisher, your spiritual master. |
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Fax to Moscow +7095 945 3382 From Harikesa Maharaj August 16, 1998 Dear devotees in Russia. Hare Krsna. I have heard about your troubles because of disputes. Please, under no circumstances, do physical harm to your own bodies or the bodies of others. It is not proper and will not accomplish your goals. You should look within yourselves to see the source of our anxiety and cure yourselves and become stable. Go to the Deities and pray and meditate before Them and ask Them for Their special mercy. Since They are persons (as you are) They will help you for They are very great and you are part of Them. They love you and you should feel love of God. Do not worry about me. I am fine and happy, although quite disgusted and appalled at the hardness, cruelness and heartlessness of the leaders of ISKCON. Take care of yourselves because otherwise you will be cheated like me when you understand the actual situation and dare say it. Good luck for you. May Krsna bless you with all good fortune. The Lord loves you, but at present, we do not have any real contact with Him. Because we are constantly cheating each other, even over petty things, and we lie, steal, and do the needful ("By hook or by crook"), we have lost touch with reality and how we are negatively affecting the world. Therefore, intelligent and balanced people are not interested in our movement. Although we are a process of self-realization, even 30 year old devotees do not know who they are and hardly anyone has love of God, and if he does he is branded as a sahajiya and crazy, or an opportunist. But we have seen that as soon as one deviates from the "party-line" he is considered a heretic and rejected, although any thinking person can understand that the time has come to search deeply within ourselves to find out why this movement is mainly interested in money, power, buildings and empty institutionalization without any real spiritual energy or power and with few realized souls, while the children are abused and neglected, and the women are used and exploited without real respect as equal partners in life. Therefore our family situations are in chaos and there is constant divorce and broken families which ruins the children. Sure it also happens in material world, but someday you might wake up and see that ISKCON is worse than the material world, while proudly posing itself as the only bona-fide and authorized institution for love of God. If devotees actually had such love, then how could they deal with each other so coldly? You should open your eyes and see for yourself what is going on in this so- called spiritual society. I pray for Krsna that there is not and never will be an ISKCON in the spiritual world, otherwise I will reconsider going back home. Good luck for you. My love goes to those who are actually capable of thinking for themselves and accepting gold, even from a filthy place. Your guide as long as you want it - H.M. |
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This is another communication from Harikesa Maharaja to all his followers. It was transcribed from a video tape. *** Hare Krsna to all those persons who feel themselves dependent on me, or who wish to take my help, assistance or guidance in any way. I wish to give my love to you. First of all, I would like to speak to you about: For all those who are feeling themselves somehow or other connected to me, I wish to offer my love to you, and my feelings that I would like to help you, and guide you in whatever way I can, and whatever way you would like to accept. First of all, I would like to say something about my physical condition. I'm feeling strong and healthy, and I'm quite well in all respects. Times have been very difficult not only for you but for me. Because of these difficulties: Of course, I have tried my best to do everything in a nice way, or I tried my best to co-operate with everybody in any way I could, but unfortunately people dealt with me in such a way which may be very disappointing. (I'm) very disappointed in devotees, very disappointed in leadership, very disappointed in the way things were done in ISKCON. And therefore, because I have actually come to a very, I think, significant conclusion that ISKCON is not an organisation that I can work within. Because I feel that it is a very heartless, and cold, and impersonal organisation where people do not matter very much, where rather things, and money, and facilities, and buildings, and achievements, and accomplishments, and all kinds of things like that seem to matter more. Because of that and because of the fact that I am so disappointed I have decided that I will not work any longer within ISKCON. I will not [work under the] control of any institution or leaders of any institution. I will work myself, taking care of myself. That's why I have been very-very busy the last few weeks, just getting myself together, taking care of myself. Therefore I had no time to think about you or to help you or care for you, because I had to basically care of myself with practically no help whatsoever except for a very few wonderful devotees like Brahmananda Puri, Sannyas das, Kamalamala das, Radhanath das, and: That's about it. So because of their help, and love, and devotion I've been able to get things together, and now I am at the point where I can start to communicate with you for some time. Therefore, I agreed to make this video for whoever wishes to see it. I have decided that these three million dollars which belong to me, which I was using under the Visva Tosani Foundation, which I was using for the sake of ISKCON... Also more money, many-many millions of dollars were given to ISKCON by me over the last year and a half, or two years practically speaking, more than anyone had ever given before, maybe three of four times more than anyone had ever given before. But because I do not want to fight with anyone, I do not to want to harm anyone, I do not want to cause anyone trouble, I never liked to do that. I have decided that even though I could easily get it back if I wanted, despite the fact that people think I can't, I will just give it all to, I suppose, ISKCON, although I cannot believe that it will use it nicely, or that they will have the intelligence to use it properly, or that they will even give the money unconditionally, without expecting control: people for what they do with it. But in any case, I do not want that anyone will have to suffer any reactions for taking anything from me, therefore I will fight with no one. They can have whatever they like, take whatever they like, I do not care anymore. However, if somebody threatens or harms myself or Monika, or her family, then I will fight and that will be very powerful. But I have no desire whatsoever to harm anyone else. I have also had spoken to anybody else who might cause such harm to others but I decided... I've told them not to harm anybody else unconditionally. I will help to protect unconditionally those who are dependent on me but in a different manner that I have done before, because although I tried to help and protect others before, it was not very successful. I could not train them up to be independently situated, I could not train them up to be independently intelligent and to understand what was wrong and what was right, and act in the proper way. I could not really help this movement very much because people are not ready for help. They are not ready for change, they are not ready. Although everybody knows something is wrong and that something has to be done, they are not ready to accept the steps which are required in order to do it. So therefore, I will do things in a different manner. Sometimes I will communicate. But you should know that I am working to help you all, but I will do it some outside. I do not want to be a part of this movement, I consider it a sect. I do not consider it Lord Caitanya's movement any longer. I think that I would like to be left alone, I do not want to be called up all the time. I do not want piles of letters. I do not have time to answer them because I have to work and take care of things. But this does not mean that I do not take care about you and that I don't try to help you. I'm doing it, but in another way. I'm asking you to please never harm anyone else, anyone inside or outside of ISKCON, for any reason, unless to protect yourself or your family. Do not harm yourself either for any reason. Do not be dependent on some communistic society. ISKCON is a communistic society, and as everyone knows communism does not work. Everyone has to be privately and independently situated, with their own income, with their own places of living, their own places of family... taking care of their families. (You) have to love each other, wives have to love husbands and husbands have to love wives, and above all they have to love and want their children. We should love each other and respect each other, as persons. As individual persons who are parts and parcels of Krsna. And we should love each other on that basis. This will take some training. Those that want to accept what I say, or think that what I say is nice, because I do not demand anyone accept anything I say at any time. You should never accept something just because someone says it. You should always understand it with your own intelligence, and you should accept it with your own intelligence and heart. Then, you should move forward. If you just accept things because other people say it, you will get into trouble, and you will be disappointed later on, as thousands of devotees and children have been disappointed in the past. However, I do suggest for those who wish to accept what I say now, that they do so: especially those who consider themselves still my followers, that I wish to change this rule that no illicit sex, which means no sex except for having children. It should be changed to no sex outside of marriage, so that our married couples could have normal relationships of: loving relationships. So that they can be happy in their married life. However, because our devotees are so basically damaged, both from before they joined the movement and in the movement, due to constantly having to repress their various desires which cause unlimited problems in their minds. Especially, when something is forbidden, everyone thinks about it day and night. But when it is not forbidden, immediately the pressure is off, and one can relieve himself from such difficult situations. However, everybody needs some kind of therapy and education. So how may we really love and respect each other, and accept each other without demands? One of the biggest problems in married life is that everyone demands everything from everyone else, and they do not accept what others do or what they are. And they do not respect each other for what they are. Real love means you respect people for what they are, not which you think they are, not which you want them to be. You have to understand what they actually are, and respect and love them for what they are. If you respect and love someone for what he or she actually is, then that's real love. And that love should be unconditional, as far as possible. Of course, unconditional love does not exist in this world, it only exists in the spiritual word. But it can exist in this world among spiritual people. When spiritual people accept and love each other, it can be unconditional. There're examples of this in India. However, we should understand: we should try to come to such love where we actually accept each other for what we are, not what we want each other to be. And we should not be disappointed when people do not come up to our expectations. But we should be patient with each other, and love each other, and help each other under all circumstances. Not that I'll only help you and you'll only help me if you I fulfil your expectations. We should be very careful of false expectations. We should expect that people are fallible, people make mistakes. No matter who they are. Anyone in this universe makes mistakes. And those mistakes should be corrected. It is not that we should go on compounding mistake after mistake after mistake. As it used to be said, if you make a mistake on the first step of your mathematical calculation, everything after that is wrong. So if there are some mistakes, they should be corrected. And I feel that this situation about this rule should be changed immediately. However, I have no power to do that. However, those who wish to understand that this is wrong, should immediately change it in their own lives. But they should not be unregulated in the sense that they engage themselves in activities which are unbecoming of human beings. But that also may mean that you may have some trouble for some time, but then you'll gradually correct yourselves. But still I say therapy and education is essential for normal relationships in household life. You should be trained. These things should be developed. I would also like to do that, to help create some therapy centre and training centre, especially for grhasthas, and to train then how to love and respect each other properly and also how to take care of children properly and protect them properly. Not that children are sent all over the world to different places. They should stay with their parents, they should live with their parents, be loved and protected by their parents. And that is the most essential point of all, in taking care of children. They should be loved, and protected, and sheltered. And that means really not just artificially. There're many more things I can say about this. There're many more things that have to be changed. I do not feel personally that it is within my power to do anything within this movement. Therefore, I'm not very much concerned with what goes on in ISKCON anymore. However, I do wish to help anyone who wishes to accept some help. We can guarantee that it will be very Krsna conscious help and suggestions. I do not wish to be in Maya in any way whatsoever. I wish to take full shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Sri Radha-Madhava. Lord Nrsimhadeva is helping and protecting in every respect. I do not wish to cheat or harm anyone. I can honestly say I have never cheated anyone economically in my life. I've only helped people. However, I cannot say that that is what has been happening by others. However, I can say that I love you all very much, no matter what has happened, what you have done to me, what you have thought about me, what you have said about me. And for those who have understood that I am a person, and who accept me as a person, and who want to hear what I say as a person, and then think about it whether they want to accept it or not, I am very-very happy to help you in any way I can. But on your terms, but on my terms and my terms, and we have to make some kind of agreement, some kind of co-operation has to be there. I cannot leave my life on the basis of other people's demands any longer. I will just do what I have to do, to do what I must do. You have asked me to take care of myself, I'm doing that now. Unfortunately, it is in the way which maybe some of you do not like or understand. I'm sorry. Life is not always so nice that everything happens just the way we want it to happen. That does not mean I have left or rejected anybody. Even those who have caused me the most harm, I have not rejected. But I wish to say that I wish you well. I hope you're all very happy. And for those devotees who are in Russia and who are suffering due to the different conflicts and fighting, I wish you please stop fighting. Just separate yourselves from those people you do not want to be with. Do not worry about institutions, don't worry about management, leadership and all these things. Take care of yourselves. Get yourselves economically situated, get yourselves a proper place to live, and be Krsna conscious at your own homes. Come together and chant and dance in the temple where you're allowed to do so. And give yourself a chance to go back home, back to Godhead without any interference from unqualified people who simply cause trouble in other people's lives. Although they do not really mean to do so, because they are not qualified and untrained in what they are doing, it happens that way. So good luck to all of you. I do not know when I will be able to communicate again. But I wish to do so in the future. Hare Krsna. Thank you. |
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Below are excerpts from darsan of Harikesa Maharana to Bhramika das in Abenteuer, transcribed from an audio tape. It was recorded on August 30, 1998. Sri Visnupad: You shouldn't call it varnasrama, you should call it social development and don't say brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, sudras. Say guides, leaders, economic developers and tradesmen, okay? Use those kind of designations. And it's just basically what it boils down to, that we need somebody to have a good idea and to train people, educate people and to give them some kind of healing or therapy. Because most people in the world are damaged. Most people in the world were abused as children or had many difficulties. And had not proper love. Because everybody in the world wants to be loved. They want to love and be loved. That is the basic principal in the world. To love and be loved. So everybody wants to love and be loved. But they don't know how to love. And therefore they can't accept love, you know. People they don't know how to love others 'cause they don't feel love within themselves, because they are so damaged. So they get married and they expect to be loved, to love and be loved. For short period of time they feel love and loved. But them when they find out what their partners actually are like really, then they get disappointed. They have false expectation, they feel very hurt. Because they didn't really loved the person as a person for what they were. They loved them for what they thought they were. Right? What they wanted them to be. Just like every woman puts the man, "He's gonna protect me, he's gonna take care of me." And every man puts the woman, "She's gonna love me and be this and that and other thing." But you know, they have needs. One wants it hot, one wants it cold, one wants it this.. You have to learn to adjust and cooperate and respect each other and accept each other for what you are. And take care of children and love children and help children. Not that like in ISKCON we send them all over the place and don't care of them and call them all Maya and this and that and other thing. There has to be actually loving relationship, and we have to help each other as people. And when we are solidly situated properly, then very easily we will be able to chant Hare Krsna and be Krsna conscious. Just like you are saying you are not chanting. Why? because materially you are not situated properly, and because you are so disturbed in your mind and heart you can't chant. Because you don't want to. Right? But if you're feeling very together, and peaceful, and happy, and balanced then chanting is a wonderful thing. Singing the names of Krsna and singing like that is wonderful thing. The Deities are wonderful. But people are so unbalanced materially and so improperly situated. And there is no social structure within which they can properly develop and learn and love each other and help each other. Therefore everything is in chaos. So the point is that first of all people live terribly. They have to get freed from their very severe material problems. Because just chanting Hare Krsna does not cure your material problems, and never it was meant for that. When insane person chants Hare Krsna, they don't become sane, you know. If a damaged person chants Hare Krsna, they don't become less damaged. You still have to go through some therapy. And so many our girls have had been sexually abused when they were children. And they don't know why they are disturbed all the time. Then they have to go to psychiatrist and they find out really what's wrong with them. Or hypnotist or whatever they do. And then they find out what's wrong with them. And then they realize why they were always (?) all this time. So chanting Hare Krsna brings you to the highest spiritual platform. But you can't get there unless you are in the mode of goodness. You have to go first from: free yourself from ignorance, free yourself from passion. Get to the mode of goodness. Or at least predominately a goodness because you can never free yourself from passion and ignorance completely. There'll always be some mixture in the material world. But when you are predominately in the mode of goodness, at least you have a lot of goodness, then you are very peaceful and happy and well situated. And then from that platform you can come to suddha-sattva. That is said in the Bhagavatam in first canto second chapter. You have to come gradually through the different modes. But we are not doing that in ISKCON. We still maintain all this terrible qualities, even amongst the leaders. We cheat each other, we lie, we steal, we harm each other, we don't take care of each other, we don't give medical treatment which people needed. We have crazy situations in our movement where everything goes wrong through different individuals. It is really improper. Because we are not properly situated, we can't help others. And that the real problem. First of all we have to be properly situated. Save yourself first is a Vedic aphorism. First save yourself, then you can help others. If you are situated properly, you can help others. So first it has to be some therapy for everybody. But I don't care if they do it or they don't do it. But if somebody's smart and has some feeling that they need help, then I want to help them make a center for healing. Some therapy center. And with the therapy center there will also be education center. Different therapy and education. Education has to be. Mothers have to be proper, fathers have to be proper, wives have to be proper. Parents have to take care of children really protecting them nicely, loving them nicely. With respect, acceptance and real love. These things after all you'll require. Without grhastha asrama there could be no society. Because only grhasthas make society. And if you have this rule that no illicit sex, then no one wants to be grhastha. Right? Because they can't do anything. So they figure what's the use. Why maintain a cow if you have milk in the market place? Maybe that's a wrong example. Or rather we should say, why maintain a wife if you can't do anything anyway? Except (indistinct), you lose your freedom in so many things. So therefore that rule is not there. In marriage life they can't have no relationship. I don't mean insane sense gratification and all this crazy stuff. I mean the properly situated loving relationships. Like everybody in India does. Even Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Nobody has such a rule except us. Then people can actually start to develop themselves properly, as grhasthas. Then every brahmacari will become a grhastha, because it's normal. So we won't have all this young people or whoever they are taking sannyasa and being very imbalanced and improperly situated. Everyone should go through the grhastha asrama fully. And that's the Vedic way, that's the proper way. Dharma, artha, kama, moksa [stresses the word 'kama']. Right? That's normal, normal. That's normal stuff. Okay, so we have to give therapy to people so that they can become cleansed and healthy. Then we have to give training and the education to all people. I'm not just talking about devotees. What's the use of a small group of devotees being in a society? Which just have some buildings which have no life in them. Empty buildings, empty shells, you know. With rules and regulations that no one can even remember or care about. And following people: you don't know what they are doing really. Materially speaking, cannot help anybody. This is not proper. You should all be well situated. Everyone should have a job. Everyone should have income. Everyone should have a house. Everyone should have a little land so that they can have garden. Everyone should take care of themselves, everyone should have medical treatment. Everyone should have family, have the cloth for the children. Proper everything for their children. Everyone should be well situated themselves. Best thing is on the land, you know, in villages. Village communities, where everyone has a piece of land and everyone has a house. And everyone can grow their own food and live nicely and help each other. Next you a neighbor needs help, or person down on the street needs help, everyone goes and helps them. If somebody's sick everyone goes and helps him. If somebody has a problem everyone goes and helps him. This is proper life, not all this crazy institutionalized communism which destroys everything. Communism is useless, everyone knows that. Everyone except ISKCON knows that. And of China. So the point is that we have to make some changes which we can't do within this movement 'cause everybody is too close-minded. They don't have the vision to understand what's wrong. Therefore it has to be done outside of ISKCON. Therefore I'm no longer in ISKCON. But I really want to help you. I'm not interested in an institution which is crazy, which is a big pile of garbage. I want to deal with people, not institutions, not laws, and rules, and regulations. There's enough rules and regulations in the karmi society. We don't need that. So therefore I want to do something different which will actually help people. And I don't care if they are devotees or nondevotees. There're beautiful people everywhere in the world, very nice people in the world. Just like here in (?), wherever I go I'm just having so much fun dealing with people. It is just so wonderful to deal with people personally. You know, they're so nice, some people. You deal with them nicely, and they are immediately nice. I mean they immediately respond. It's incredible! You're just a little bit nice with somebody, and he immediately responds. Because everybody starving for it. Even in our movement. People are starving for love, they are starving for appreciation, they are starving for respect. They want these things. But we don't do it! So we have to start doing it ourselves, and then immediately everybody will respond. When you are loving, kind, happily situated person, everybody will respond you, and will want to be with you all the time. So, anyway, we'll make a healing center first for anybody who needs it. That means devotees, nondevotees, anybody. And education center for everybody who needs it. Not just, you know, some narrow-minded ISKCON thing. It should be for anybody. Because the suggested way of life is the same for everybody, really. Basically it all boils down, everybody can be happy in the same exact way. And then: after that people will gradually make their own communities. So first what I want to do, near (?). We cooked this idea out together. It's not fully developed', but its pretty well. The scheme is pretty well developed. Which is that we'll have a place somewhere, working with trained psychiatrists, trained doctors, trained therapists, everybody with degrees. Completely legal. We'll accept it whatever it is. And then we'll train up maybe two or three experts for Russia. Russians will come. We have to pick the most qualified people in Russia. And we'll train them how to do what we are doing here. And I will go there and then do the same thing there. Make a center there. I will not do it personally I will just set it up. Right? And then those trained people, they will do the same thing in Russia. Right? And then you can build community around clean people. Because if you just go now and start buying lend and building houses, you're gonna fill it with insane people. Right? That's not good, you should wait. You should just get yourselves economically together. Right? You can buy land, and you can maybe buy things to maintain. But the first thing we should do is what here in Germany. Because we have a qualification here to do it. And then to train some Russians, and then they will do it there. It may take two years to train them properly, because it is not a simple thing. They have to learn enormous things. It's not so simple to heal people, it's not so simple. You know. We take it cheaply, it's not a cheap thing, it is a very difficult thing. We have to develop this education. And I'd like to work with qualified people. That means I have to pay them. It's not a cheap thing, you know, we have to pay salaries, big salaries because these are very highly qualified people. So we need a lot of money here to do that. And then we'll train up Russians. And in the meantime if you have extra money you can buy real estate, community places, farm, land where you can build, and also you just find land. And maybe you can accumulate materials for building and everything. Right? Or you can maybe get houses or whatever. If you have extra money. And then in this way we can then prepare community there. And then we can create people to go into that community. That's essential, because you just can't put anybody in there like in ISKCON they've just put any unqualified person in the temple. And they all have to live together, and they all are totally different kind of people. In the community there should be a compatible kind of people. People who have the same kind of ideas in the heart and the same desires in their heart, you know. Which basically everybody has. But they should be open-minded people, they should be spiritually minded people, not total materialists. Although total materialists are sometimes better then the spiritualists because at least they have a heart. They're not cold and impersonal people. So basically... you don't have to worry about such: But I think I finished that, basically, it is... Is that okay? Bhramika: We have ideas about: to finance devotees who would like to be like vaisyas, like traders. Sri Visnupad: Yes, but you should only do that with contracts. Bhramika: Yes, right. Sri Visnupad: Absolutely legal contracts. Because they will cheat you. Devotees learned how to cheat very well. And you nave to be very careful. And they are lazy also. They don't work. They'll think, "Oh, I have to go to chant". Or, "It's too much for me", or, "It's Maya", or this, or that. That's nonsense. Everybody has to work properly (indistinct). "You can do whatever you want and whenever you want". I used to work twelve hours a day. But I saw other people, you know, they are just spaced around, do this, do that. Slow working. What I can do in five minutes takes them five hours. Because they are not committed. Therefore you have to pay them and demand them. In other words, "You'll get this and this and this, but you work like this and this and this." You have to employ, just be very strict with that. And with others, you give them loan or you give them investment and you demand return. It must be like that. Bhramika: Yes. We would like to find people who can run the company, you see, like ksatriyas, who can run: Sri Visnupad: Ksatriyas, they don't run companies, they run states. Companies are ran by vaisyas. Vaisya doesn't mean just businessman, it also means managers. Or organizational manager of a company to make business. That you have to find. Bhramika: And when we found such people and then give them money with agreement: Sri Visnupad: That they must accomplish certain thing. Bhramika: Yes. And give them percentage from the profit, like 50 percent or: Sri Visnupad: Yes, something reasonable. Not tons. Bhramika: Something reasonable, yes, maybe 25 is okay: Sri Visnupad: They're all puffed up. They think themselves very great, but they are not so great. You have to really work hard and earn your money. No one should just demand anything. If somebody comes in and says, "I'm a big time manager, you give me a lot of money." So you say "Ok. We'll guarantee you at the end a bonus. Right? If you accomplish. If you accomplish, you'll get a bonus. You don't accomplish, no bonus. We make rules what you gonna get." Not that you just give somebody money, and he says, "Okay I'll do something." And two weeks later or month later or year later he's gone, he did nothing and you loose. So you give it on a bonus basis or something like that. Nobody should be dependent, "Give me money, give me money." Everyone should be self-sufficient. Only brahmanas who are doing research and writing and education, they should be given the money to do that. Support. Whatever they need. Or even more. Give them a salary. Why should anybody be just dependent? Give them a good salary. Let them write, let them research, let then do good things. Bhramika: Sri Visnupada, is it right that ksatriyas can't run company, because this is: Sri Visnupad: Ksatriya: And who is a ksatriya? If somebody wants to manage a company, he is not a ksatriya, he is a vaisya. Like Nanda Maharaja was a vaisya, but he was a king of the vaisyas. So you can have vaisyas who are like kings, who are not ksatriyas but they have a quality of protecting vaisyas, helping them organizing them and everything. But that is not a ksatriya, that's a vaisya. It's just different way in which vaisya... Everybody manages, you see. Being a manager does not mean you are a ksatriya. Everybody manages. Brahmanas manage their writing and their papers and their puja and their families. Ksatriyas manage states and armies, and vaisyas manage businesses and cow protection and farming. It is a big management. Sudras manage all kind of things. Everybody manages everything. Every person manages. Bhramika: What can we do with our chanting because we had no time, we have inspired very much: Ajata Yauvana: We slept only four hours during... Sri Visnupad: That's what I've being doing, too. Sometimes I go to bed at 11:30 and get up at 2:00. And because I'm just so busy I have no time, you know. It takes hours to do all this kind of stuff. But now I'm more peaceful, I'm much more peaceful because everything finished because of them. They are so wonderful, they did everything for me. They are so great, I can't believe it. They gonna get so much mercy you can't imagine. Because they did such wonderful things for me. And I was helpless. And I was running all over the place. Even with their help I'm still running all over the place. I know exactly what you're going through. But for me it's gonna be last, but for you it's difficult. So you chant when you can, it doesn't matter when you do it. Like now I still haven't chanted one round and I'm gonna go immediately after this conversation to the forest and chant. So, when you can you chant. If you can't chant 16, okay, chant what you can. The point is to be Krsna conscious, you know. Not that you have to do this and have to do that. I knew people have been chanting 16 rounds for years and they are not Krsna conscious. I know people haven't been chanting and they're Krsna conscious. Prabhupada chanted maximum four rounds a day. Maximum. I know, because I've used to be with him in the middle of the night. I know what he was doing. Maximum four rounds. Not more than 20 minutes. Maybe sometimes 30 minutes of chant. Bhramika: But when we chant we have difference (indistinct). Sri Visnupad: When you chant, you just it the best you can. Because the quality counts more than the quantity. You have to really have quality. You have to feel something for Krsna, you know. Like people go in front of the Deity, what do they see? They see a statue. Why? Because they are statues. When you are statue, the Deities are statue, because He reciprocates. And if you are person, the Deity will be a person, because They reciprocate. Radha and Krsna reciprocate. The more you are person, the more you have love for Them, the more They are persons, the more They have love for you. And you can actually speak with Them. And they will speak to you. You know these EC members they are so foolish, they were talking with my sister. They tried to trick her in different ways like to get her to sign away my freedom so that I to go to the mental institution. Can you imagine that? I've talked about that with a head police commissioner here he said that totally illegal in Germany. They could go to jail for years for that. Anyway, they were so stupid they don't even know what they were doing, but anyway. They also did something funny with my sister, they said, "Do you know that your brother talks to statues?" And then my sister said, "Wait a minute here. If you consider that these statues are God then why can't he talk with them? Of course, God can talk. Right?" My sister. She is just a plain karmi. And these are big-big-big leaders. And she understands. Ajata Yauvana: I'm so (indistinct) for your mercy. Sri Visnupad: No, mercy you get from Krsna. Radha and Krsna, you get from, not from me. But maybe I can help you. I'll just give you some suggestions. I'm not gonna order you to do anything, I'm not gonna make you do anything, you do what you like. I'll just make some suggestion, that's all. Please, you don't accept anything I say as an order. Absolutely not. If you like what I say and you agree with what I say and you think it makes sense and you can accept it with your own intelligence, you challenge it in different ways: Don't just accept what I say. You should really think about it clearly. And if you like this project and you it makes sense and it can help people, then let's work together. Okay? Ajata Yauvana: What can you suggest us right now? Sri Visnupad: I did. Sri Visnupad: Okay? Can I go? Ajata Yauvana: Thank you very much. Thank you: |
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I wrote this by hand. I don't have facilities to make it very nice, but I guess the spirit is what really counts. You can even make any message perfect by polishing and polishing and polishing with editing it and so on. That is of cause very good, because then you can actually say what you really mean. But when you do things like that sometimes what happens is that you edit out important things which gives a certain kind of emotional impact because you're afraid of people thinking this or that when they read it. So therefore I thought it's much better if I just speak things as I feel them. And if people like to hear it that's fine and if not that's also fine. I have really no connection to this thing any more, just like that. So the message that I'd like to give to everybody is that we are in a very damaged time right now. Kali Yuga has advanced very far and people are in a very damaged state. And one can see that just by looking at this ISKCON society. If one looks at ISKCON society one finds people who are very disturbed emotionally, mentally, physically, in bad health, bad digestion, many problems, disturbances, inability to feel any love, real love towards others and deal with others in a very nice way. People are mainly interested in money and facilities and buildings and power and all this kind of things. And this any intelligent person can understand. Especially this is going on and has being going on for a long time. So I feel personally that the most significant factor in the failure of ISKCON is that it did not accept that devotees who entered into it are extremely damaged people. They come from the material world in a very damaged way. I remember talking with the EC members in the forest in Morbach whom I really sincerely tried to explain a very nice concept about how to actually experience love and feel it, which is a very essential factor for understanding love of Godhead. But when I mentioned the fact that I thought that regulative principle of no illicit sex was the cause of destroying thousands of people, thousands of relationships between husbands and wives and ruined the lives of children, who were not loved and not wanted, they started talking to me about how actually the point is that when we were teenagers and things like that when we joined the movement - all we had was horrible relationship and everything was bad, and it was bad this and bad that and there was no real love, bla, bla, bla. So they thought that I was trying to bring up this point about no illicit sex in order that I could have illicit sex. Which is really funny because at that point I really couldn't care less what they thought about anything that I would do. I was totally free to do whatever I like. But I wanted to say that for the sake of others not for the sake of myself. For the sake of myself I can take care of myself but for the sake of others they really need help and I think it is a very important thing to help others. And I really feel very very deeply that this rule is the major cause of main problems between husbands and wives and therefore the children. We have to somehow or another to really establish proper family otherwise there is no question of society. Varnasrama dharma is based on that. Brahmacary life simply means childhood region where you learn how to become a good person, a moral person, a proper person, an honest person, a learned person and then everyone enters into the grihastha asram and goes through a very nice family life. That means people should marry each other when they actually love each other, not when they forced to do it or when it is arranged or whatever. They should actually have feelings for each other. Without real feelings for each other and love for each other they'll never take care of each other nor they'll ever help each other. They'll never do things in a proper way, which will actually satisfy the children, and the children who were loved and wanted can become good people who can actually help this world. So I feel this is the basic problem and there needs to be a proper grihastha asram with actually helping people in it, which is the way in which the varnasrama dharma actually succeeded, after long periods of time in India. Then the family structure breaks down over improper instructions that were given by improperly qualified people specifically of the brahminical order who are actually not really brahmanas but are simply self-interested intellectuals who simply argue with others to make their point superior to other's then there is actually no hope because there is no taste in the society because there is no proper leadership. Leadership means brahmanas. Ksatriyas they should give protection, under the instruction of brahmanas. Because in ISKCON there are very very few actually learned and loving and beautiful brahmanas, although there are some - I remember working in the education department I was very very pleased to work with the brahminical devotees who were working on education because they were very very nice people. But they were also themselves damaged, I think specifically by their inability to actually experience loving relationships in a very normal and proper way. Anyway, that's my personal opinion, take it or leave it. As far as I'm concerned I think that when you talk about spiritual movement, specifically one that is supposed to represent Lord Caitanya, the idea is to spread the spiritual life all over the world. Somehow or another to spread spiritual life in such a way that people become actually advanced people. They become powerful advanced spiritualists. This is very rare in this world. Because I've seen that although people may chant and may follow rules and may get up in the morning and may shower, they may not eat asafetida on ekadasi, because there is a little grain in it, bla bla bla - I see that they don't have any power to bring Krsna consciousness to others. And we see it by the result. Intelligent people, who are actually sane and balanced and powerful in this world are not interested in Krsna consciousness. They may be interested in Krsna consciousness, because it is a beautiful philosophy and there are beautiful things about it but they don't want to have anything to do with devotees, who themselves are not proper representatives of Lord Caitanya, who actually don't even understand Lord Caitanya or His actual Mission. So, I think that people require taste. People do not give up something that they have which is secure for something which is insecure and may be lost. They have to be seeing that it is something actually real. If something is actually proven, something they can actually taste. When they get that realization, and that realization is long lasting then intelligent people will continue with it for some time. I've seen devotees they come into the movement, they go to the kirtan, they eat prasadam, they get blissed out bhaktas and they decide "Ok, I'm gonna surrender my life". But that kind of person is not a kind of a person who's gonna spread something beautiful all over the world. It's a kind of a person, who was suffering before he joined. Mainly people joined, because they are arta, they need to get freed from their suffering conditions, or artha-arthi, they need money or something like that. Which is why leaders are going to the positions of money and power and so many things. Because actually they are not after wisdom. They are not actually after wisdom. And wisdom is the thing which makes somebody really powerful. Now, they may develop some wisdom, I don't know, but I think that an intelligent person, who is already quite wise, who is already quite advanced over many lifetimes and who has good karma, he is actually well situated person and actually has the facilities and capacities to do something wonderful - just like the Buddhism was spread because of maharaja Asoka, Christianity was spread because of Constantine, I think that was the person - so Krsna consciousness need to attract such kind of persons in order to become powerful and spread all over the world. But it can't do it in the present condition. Any sane person takes one look at our principles and our rules and these can't do this, can't do this, can't do this, can't do this. And person thinks "what's the use?" So many "no"-es - what is the use of anything in life? And the funny thing is that it attracts some kind of persons who are trying to take shelter in these things in order to forget about feelings to forget about thinking to forget about making his own decisions. But real intelligent people who actually think for themselves and actually have some feelings and know what to do with them they are not attracted to such things. Therefore I personally feel that if you make so many "no"-es then people all day long - that's all they think about - is it what they do with all these "no"-es? Like you say "no illicit sex" then people think about sex day and night. And when you say "do whatever you like" then people actually come to an understanding of consciousness which brings them to the proper way of acting. As if you are free to act as you like and you are educated as to what is actually proper action and interested in it, you want to advance and you want to develop, then you'll actually take up spiritual life in such a way that you'll do the proper things without even being told. I remember, before I came to this movement I became mainly a vegetarian, although sometime there was a little fall down, I gave up intoxication, I wasn't interested in illicit sex - these things happened naturally to me. Therefore it was not such an extraordinary thing to join the movement. Unfortunately many bad things happened when I joined the movement especially when I saw that people in the movement were terrible people and I wouldn't associate with them in a million years. But because I was interested in spiritual life I forced myself to do it. Which is not a good way to engage in spiritual life. It should be done with people who are beautiful, people who are at least kind and loving and so on. There are many people like that in this world. I'm finding them more and more wherever I go. Very nice people, actually have a heart. Anyway that's another subject. So unless you have really intelligent people who can actually feel under actual reason why they should pick up a certain kind of path or consciousness or certain kind of understanding. Path means basically they want to advance to higher realm. They want to become more conscious people, spiritually conscious people, come in contact with spiritual life, come in contact with God, come in contact with Lord Caitanya, Who is the topmost personification of love of God, Who is the personification of Radha and Krsna combined, Who is love and the highest love in the world, in the universe. So they have to have real taste. But you judge by results. Anybody who is intelligent just watches ISKCON and sees the failures, failures, failures, failures. And although ISKCON has many propaganda elements, ingredients which pump out propaganda "it did this, it did this, it did that" - nobody really cares who is intelligent. Therefore it's a failure, because it doesn't have actual power. There is no spiritual power, because there is no spiritually powerful people. There are many reasons for that, I can't do this all on a phone call from a public phone booth. But when something is really correct, when something is really correct it is connected to the higher energies. It is connected to the higher energies in this universe and to the highest energies in the spiritual world. And then things happen and they happen fast, they happen powerfully and anyone who comes in contact with it is very very pleased with it and wants to be part of this and want to develop the thing more and more. Therefore we would need realized persons who actually have contact with higher authorities, who can guide spiritual life in such a way that people actually understand what to do and they don't have any problems on accepting it because it works. It's not something that needs just faith, it has to be more then just faith. Just faith is useless. It has to be something in which you actually have taste, you have actual realization, day by day by day, because every morning you have to wake up and you have to continue with your realization. If you have just faith for instance that if you just go on at the end of life you'll become spiritually advanced and you'll go back to godhead. Well, may be you'll do that, because Lord Caitanya is very merciful and it might just happen, I'm not saying it can't happen, but while you are living if you haven't got that real taste and you haven't got that real love then you can't really help anyone else. So therefore ISCKON becomes a closed club of people with blind faith who are just waiting for death. And then death becomes the main thing. I know for myself - all I cared about was dying because the life was so horrible. And what was the use of life - managing, managing, working, working, working day in, day out, no understanding of actually blissful situation, except for a kirtan which is like a football match where everybody bits each other around, and throws each other here and there. And you can't even really taste the holly name in such a community. If you just stand there with your hands in the air, taste the holly name, then people think you just not into it, they have to push you around until you are in a kirtan - the way we used to do with the children, pushing them in their ribs until they dance as if the teacher was actually feeling the spiritual life. But anyway. There are many many things one can say. Therefore we need realized persons so that we can bring people to a real appreciation of the gifts of God. Just like in Bhagavad Gita Krsna says that when you please the demigods when you reciprocate with the demigods they will give you everything you need for a very blissful and happy life, including liberation. That will also come. So therefore I think we have very much neglected connecting with the higher authorities in this universe. We've neglected the demigods as if they are some kind of evil people, who are simply sitting up there waiting for someone to worship them in such a way that they'll make him forget about Krsna. It's not the demigod's business to make you forget about Krsna. The demigods want you to be Krsna conscious, the demigods want you to go back to godhead. After all they've got the mercy of Lord Caitanya when Lord Caitanya was here, in Navadvipa they used to go there. In Mayapur - visibly seeming - stand around His house and enjoy cracks and games with Lord Caitanya and His family and the friends. They are very much Krsna conscious, they are thousands of times more Krsna conscious then anyone on this planet. And they are controlling everything that goes on in this universe. And we've neglected them completely, we think they are evil people and that to have any connection with them is something bad. And instead people are interested in channeling. Channeling ghosts and channeling weird people or beings from a very strange places, black forces, black magic and so many things. And the real powerful people, the demigods we neglect completely as if this was something bad. It's insane. Krsna works through the demigods it this universe because they are His representatives. He's not doing everything directly, He works through the demigods, but He is the Supreme Controller and every demigod knows it perfectly well. Therefore we have to somehow or other connect to the proper energies, the proper authorities and get things going nicely so that this whole world transform. There has to be yagya. But that yagya has to be in various ways. The sacrifice also means to sacrifice knowledge, by working on yourself so that you can develop yourself more and more, become more and more powerful and more and more connected with this world. Not that you just disconnect everything in some kind of gopy-bhava and all day long all you are thinking about is Radha Krsna and you forget about the world completely. That may be very nice for you but it doesn't help anyone else in this world. We need to have actually attract people. Just like we have powerful preachers. If a powerful preacher knows the minds and hearts of others he can capture their attention with the proper words, with the proper concepts, so that they become attracted and they accept and then he can actually elevate them. If one is suffering very deeply, as most damaged of people are suffering, when they suffering very deeply they have no capacity, strength or interest to take up faraway goals, for example, Radha Krsna bhava. You can talk about Radha Krsna bhava until you are blue in a face but until you are actually advanced you'll never taste it. And if you don't taste it then it does not make any sense. Especially the loving affair of Radha and Krsna. It makes no sense. Therefore people make offences and they fall down in that way. So, I find personally that if you want to come to the platform of prosperity and happiness we have to do things in a way that Krsna wants it done, which is for example in varnasrama dharma, taking help from the demigods, taking help from the Lord and understanding the different roles of different peoples. For example, the women in society they are the representatives of motherly energy. They must be protected and loved and even spoiled by their husbands. They should be married very nicely to very beautiful people. They should themselves be beautiful people. And they should have loving relationships, and the husbands should understand the feminine energy and value of it and the way in which the feminine energy can transform the world into something nice. I personally feel that ISCKON is one very masculine thing, which is very actually wrong. Which is actually harming everybody because it is totally masculine, this world is based on masculine and feminine energies, that IN and YAN. That's Radha and Krsna. There must be the feminine and masculine aspects, because just simply the masculine aspect is useless. And it is not that the masculine aspect dominates and the feminine aspect doesn't exist. IN and YAN - if you notice for sign with the IN and YAN in the Chinese philosophy - they are equal. They are just on the different sides. Similarly Radha and Krsna are equal. It is not that Radha is inferior to Krsna or less powerful, She is so powerful She totally control the Supreme Controller of the whole existence. Therefore we have to accept the motherly energy, accept the feminine energy and develop them and nurture them by giving them everything they need to advance, which means love, protection, shelter and to spoil them rotten now, because people have being so misused in this movement. Actually I had the feeling yesterday to have all the girls in the movement out to a shop and let them buy the beautiful cloth, whatever they want and take them to a hair-dresser to look very beautiful. But then actually I was told that the best thing is to tell the husbands to do that, because it is not my busyness and neither do I have the money or ability to do that. So we have to understand and appreciate womanly nature and nurture it and give it all facilities. Then the complete society will be there. That is actually varnasrama dharma and that is actually the direction of Krsna. Love is required. Without it one becomes hard and heartless and can not treat others properly. One should not be afraid of love. Even if there is pain. For to close completely and feel no pain, this is as good as death, because it is just like a stone. One has to be full of life. One has to actually want to live and actually feel love and experience love for others. Otherwise you can't experience love of God. The same openness in the heart, which loves others, involved with the same openness, which can love Krsna and Radha. It is not that you can close your heart completely to others and expect that your heart will open to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not gonna happen. Unless you can feel love, experience love, which also means to take the pain, because if you have love, you'll have pain, if you open your heart to love - you are gonna also open your heart to pain. And because we don't like pain, because we are not hard, we are going to suffer so much we therefore closed ourselves up and become hard. As if this will protect us. But instead of protecting us it just simply destroys that which the most beautiful in our lives and which we want more then anything else, which is love. Everyone come to Krsna consciousness to be loved. But instead of loving they closed themselves up in personal relationships to others as if this is the cause of their pain. But the real cause of their pain is their inability to accept love and to accept pain and deal with it in such a way that they can live and accept both sides of the existence, which is that there is the good, there is the bad. And even if you have pain of love, that pain is beautiful too. Because it is based on love, it is not based on the physical pain or mental pain of insanity or something, which is harmful, it is actually required. Just like the pain the mother feel when the child's teeth come out or when a child is hurt or the husband is hurt or whatever, that pain is required, otherwise there is no question of love. So one has to be brave, one has to be bold to actually experience that love, because life is valuable and to reject it for the sake of not feeling pain or to reject it for the sake of some pleasant future of liberation which may or may not come in particular case - it is depending on one's advancement - is not proper. It is not even secure, it is pie in the sky and one should be very very careful otherwise one will make big mistakes and will ruin one's life. So we want to subtract most intelligent people in the world, because without it what is the use of such a worldwide organization, of such huge expense and endeavor to maintain buildings and facilities for a few people who are themselves very damaged and are not very capable of spreading the mission of Lord Caitanya or anything else. It's a waste of time. Therefore, I feel that I personally am very interested in creating healing centers, education centers and all kinds of media in different way to help people come to a highest state of consciousness and awareness to help them themselves come to that state, so that they can advance in their own way and gradually come to the point where they are capable of chanting this Sri Krsna Caitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita Gadadhara Sri Vasa adi Gaura Bhakta Vrinda mantra which Prabhupada told me in 1971 is hundreds times more powerful then the Hare Krsna mahamantra. Why shouldn't they chant the names of Gaura Nitai? Because Bhaktivinoda Thakura said that anyone who chants the names of Gaura Nitai immediately feels ecstatic. Instead of saying "don't do it" we should say "go on, chant the names of Gaura Nitai", chant the names and become ecstatic, because that's all there is in this world, it is that ecstasy. But that also does not mean that you can reject others. That love of others is the essential part. It is part of the growing experience, it is part of the requirement, necessary requirement of emotional facilities within oneself so that he can actually advance. And to get to that emotional facility one has to actually experience love. Anyway there is a lot more I could say, not exactly how to do that, but I want to create together with Mony and other professionals, professional psychiatrists, doctors, therapists, chiropractors and all kinds of wonderful people, who actually understand all of these things and anyone intelligent who wants to be a part so that we could actually create some powerful people, who actually can heal others in such a way that they get freed from their emotional baggage, their emotional armour which is causing them to not be able to feel the love of Godhead which they should feel with the love of others. Because if you love others - they are spirit souls, they are parts and parcels of God. If you can't love a part of the whole how you are going to love the whole? If you are hating all the parts of the whole, you think the whole is something more then all the parts? Of cause Krsna is more then the sum of the parts because He is the source of them. But if you dislike or don't love the parts too and you think "I'm just gonna love Krsna" as if He's separate from His parts and parcels then you are mayavady and that is completely useless. So therefore - maybe not a mayavady, I'm just talking here so I may make a mistake here and there. Of cause I've made many mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, no one is perfect, but at least you get the spirit, you know? - the point is that we got to do something right and that this has to be done. And we should be bold and brave and not care about external restriction, external difficulties we should just do what is proper, do it right and be happy, Ok? |
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(texts in italic and headlines inside the conversation are inserted by the editor) What it is is that you see the physical bodies, nowadays… You see there are energies and there is also the body. Within the body, the physical body, it works by, you know, the chemical combinations and everything. But… There is the etheric body, which is where the chakras are and everything, and that's what's connecting between people, and with the universe, and… like that. That's where the emotions lie, that's where past life experiences lie, that's where the connection to the universal energies lie and everything. Not subtle. Subtle body is the mind, intelligence and false ego - that's even something else. Etheric body, yeah. And the etheric body is where everything really happens. And in the etheric body almost everybody in the world is super-damaged. Especially devotees. And if you can rebuild that etheric body and purify it, and take away all the pain and anxiety and fears and give real strength, then the person transforms into a totally wonderful kind of a person, which is really what the world needs nowadays. No, no. Cough has nothing to do with the etheric body. What it is is that You see the gross body is too.., how to say, too.., it's not of the right energy. The gross bodies nowadays are not of the right energy to handle the energy of the etheric body, because everything is really happening in the etheric body. But the etheric body is far far more powerful, especially in some people. For me, especially right now, that energy is far far far more powerful than my gross body, and that's been the problem all along. All the feelings, all the energy, all the desires, the intellect, the plans, the fear for the world, or for the movement, or for whatever, was so much more powerful than my body could handle, especially even ecstatic feelings. Whenever there was an ecstatic feeling the body would completely collapse, completely, because it couldn't handle the feelings, because my body was not in a right situation to handle all that kind of a thing. And so the body had to transform in order to catch up to the etheric body. And the whole world is in the same situation. The energy is transforming very rapidly, the energy is transforming very rapidly, but the bodies are not situated properly. The whole material world is not situated properly to catch up to the energies. So therefore there is sickness in the bodes, sickness in the minds, sickness in the hearts, so we have to transform the bodies to catch up to what's going on on the etheric platform, because the demigods, they all work on the etheric platform. You want to ask me the questions? Why don't you just tell me all the questions? Yeah… Yeah, that's good because we are also tape-recording here, so you can just ask me all the questions, and then I'll repeat them now because they are only tape-recording what I say here in the room. So you just tell me the questions and I'll repeat them right after you tell me, Ok? Or you can do it at any time you want, it's no problem. No just tell me all the questions and I'll just repeat them so that on our tape-recorders here we have them. q Questions - Devotees try to understand what had happened to me since early June? - Ok. - Somebody said I had severe mental and physical breakdown. Was it so? What do I think was the cause of the breakdown? How do I feel now? - Why did I start taking vibhuti in the first place? - Then after the collapse devotees perceived a sudden and radical change in the way I perceived ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada. Have my views actually changed that drastically? And what were the most prominent differences between my present views and the ones I've presented when I was in ISKCON during my years? Yes sure, what else? They are little boring, but what else? - Many devotees think that the EC members tried their best within the party line framework to deal with me properly. At the same time devotees sympathize with my feelings of being mistreated. In what way do I feel I was mistreated by the EC members? Has the way they dealt with me affected my view of ISKCON? In what way? Just not a question. - They want to know who to blame for the failures of ISKCON, for the failures of themselves, for the failures of the leaders, for the failures of Srila Prabhupada, for the failures of myself? If while active in ISKCON did make some mistakes, could I be blamed for some of the ISKCON's failures? How do I feel about that? - Do I recognize the problem of the fact that I present things very heavily because I get totally into it and I'm not a diplomat, and a politician, and…? Yeah, go ahead. Next. Do I want to do something about this? - I said that buildings, properties and bank accounts are all that ISKCON cares about and they don't care about the people anymore and I want to do something to transform them. What do I consider the best way to help another person? - I said guru should be a guide, what do I mean by that and what's the difference between present gurus in ISKCON? When one understands what a spiritual master is then one can understand how one can be a spiritual master or whatever it is, and then one can understand how I feel and then one's disciple can understand what to do. - How was the principle of no illicit sex causing the destruction of thousands of people in ISKCON? - What do I consider is the proper way in which sex can be used to or engaged in order to help one become happy and healthy in spiritual life? - Something about initiation promises? - Something about contraceptives which I have no idea about so that's… You can have to talk to some experts. Jayapataka Maharaja says he has a disciple who knows about these things, I'm not an expert in these things… Yeah, I mean everybody wants to know, but I've no idea about these things, I'm a wrong person to ask. (laughing). They want to know about contraceptives - I have no idea about these things… Obeisances to Guru-Sakti. Answers Yeah, what happened was like this. For many many years I was very very discouraged with ISKCON. For example when Prabhupad left the planet and he just appointed these 11 gurus and he gave absolutely zero instructions what should be done, I was very worried. Because how do you become a guru when you are in your twenties or early thirties, when you don't even know what to do, and the only example there is is Srila Prabhupad. So if one is giving instructions what to do it's easier, but if there are no instructions one just follows previous examples. So I was very worried about this because how do you follow the example of Srila Prabhupad when you are in your early twenties and you don't know very much. So then what happened was, at January of 1978 I was in Bombay for 1 week and I spent that whole time with Pradyumna, because we were both very close. Prabhupad said there were 3 people who are very very similar - Pradyumna, Syamasundara and myself, so naturally, at least Pradyumna and myself were a kind of close. We talked about what to do with this guru question and we decided that in order to not disturb god-brothers and in order to not take positions, which are artificial, one should start off with a very very simple little seat. Like let's say 1 inch off the ground, or wooden seat or something like this so there is a difference but not much of a difference. And if there are any pictures they should be tiny tiny little pictures. So we thought very comfortable with this and we thought this was very good. So I went to the Mayapur meeting and when they asked what should we do I said "Well I've talked with Pradyumna and we came up with this very nice idea that would probably solve the situation". Everybody immediately rejected it. Then they were talking what to do, what to do, then Guru-kripa said we should go to Sridhar Maharaja, because that's what Prabhupad said. And then Guru-kripa said "Isn't that right, Tamal?" And then Tamal Krishna Maharaj didn't say anything, but he just shook his head and said "Yeah". And then I was freaked out immediately because I knew what this would mean, because I knew this would be the end. So then they had a vote. Jayatirtha said "Ok, everybody in favor?" so people raised their hands. I tried to speak against it, but nobody listened. Then Jayatirtha said: "It was unanimous". I said "It's not unanimous, take the "no" votes". And he said: "why should I do that?" I said: "Because I wanna go down in history as being the only person against this insane resolution." So then he said "Ok go down in history. All those against?", then I raised my hand. Then they went to Sridhar Maharaj and Sridhar Maharaj said: "Oh when you are a guru it's like being married. Right? You have your wife and wife means home or children, family. You have to have your own home, your own place, right? And guru, you know, you should have vyasasana which is just a little bit below Srila Prabhupad's vyasasana", and so many things. And he destroyed everything by saying that. Then there was very little hope after that. So then the whole thing started. Everybody wanted to do it this way, that way, the other way. After about two months of the way they were doing it with guru-puja simultaneous to set the other things, I changed the whole thing. I said: "I'm sick of this, it's disgusting" and I stopped it. And gradually gradually gradually I was reducing the whole thing with this vyasasanas and with crawler garlands and with aratics and with puja and this bla bla bla. I couldn't stand any of this stuff within. Washing feet was the worst one of all, that was totally disgusting. So I wanted nothing to do with any of these things, but I had to something because disciples thought I was crazy to not do. So during that time they were doing horrible horrible things. You know they were writing papers on the basis of, Satsvarupa Maharaj was writing papers on the basis of what Sridhar Maharaj wrote, and all the GBCs thought it was great. And I was totally fried with it. Actually me and Adi-kesava jointed forces at that time, and we were trying to stop this within the GBC. Because I'm a very loyal kind of a company man. You know, what's his name - Saphtane Davis gave me a paper - I gave it to Saunaka Risi - about different kinds of people and how they relate with others. So I have many different qualities, but one of the strongest ones is that I'm a company man. Like when I do things within a company or society or something I'm very loyal to it, because that's just one of my qualities, I'm a loyal person. So although I hated what was going on within the GBC and all the GBC men know that I was a complete radical the whole time, but I didn't speak about it outside of the GBC. Because I thought that we have to do things within, we always have to do things within, because that's the way it works. If you really want to make change, you have to do it within. Ok, so I did that, did that, did that. I was against so many things that were going on the whole time. But it didn't work. You know being against everything from within, it just doesn't work, because nobody cares. All they care about is the status quo, and to expand the power, and all this and that for themselves, and to get more opulence. Jayadvaita Maharaj told when we were in Korsnas having a meeting, he said the main problem is money and women. And actually that's the problem for the whole world. Not just money and women, that's a typical ISKCON way of saying it, it's money and the opposite sex. Every man wants a woman for enjoyment, every woman wants a man for security and enjoyment, and in order to do all this we need money. So the whole world runs on that. ISKCON is no different.
If you are a guru or whatever you are it all boils down to money and enjoyment with the opposite sex. So I'm watching this going on, I'm seeing the way in which children have been dealt with. In the mid eighties when I saw the way that it was going on in Vrindavana and everything, I was so fried, you know. I said we got to change this fast, we got to do something fast. We got to get these kids out of these institutions where they've being abused and destroyed. So I was speaking with Sri Ram because he was the "big cheese" in the ministry of education. I was saying: "We have to do something fast. We have to get them out, we have to make a parental system where they go to people who love them and take care of them". But he wasn't interested in anything I said. Anything I would say he would reject immediately. And he was the main man in education. I would talk to Jagadisa Maharaja, at that time we were friends. But he was so basically bewildered all the time because he had no capacity to do anything. He is not that kind of a person, he's just a gentle kind of a brahminical person. So nothing was going on that way. And so I kind of a … more and more withdrew myself from everything. And then I collapsed, because there was like zero way to get anything done because you couldn't work through the GBC, and everybody was trying to be a big big big shot. Bhagavan especially, the king of the world, right? But the guy himself, was just totally, as a person he was totally useless. He could hardly accomplish anything. He could simply do some talking, he didn't even know what was going on in his zone, he probably couldn't even use a calculator. I mean the guy was himself personally a totally worthless person. But the way he dealt with others was that he always dragged down everybody else by criticizing them and this and that, and other thing. And Bhavananda was a queen, and everybody knows what that means. And Ramesvar was a complete controller, although I liked Ramesvar very much. And I think he's very confident, but… he also was scared to death. He also felt like me, he also knew that this whole guru thing was a joke. But when he tried to do something about it, Bhagavan and I think Tamal and others forced him to continue doing it and that's why he freaked out, because he was in a position he knew he didn't want to be in. He was also very young. Anyway there are many many histories I can go on for hours, I know the full thing from top to bottom what really went on inside. And you know knowing all these and never being able to tell it to anybody it's a complete fry. And in 87 the whole thing just came to a huge crash. You know, I just couldn't take it anymore, after, after the guru thing. And then they had these meetings because others like Ravindra, whoever created it I don't know. They thought that the best way just change everything is to just, you know, make everybody a guru. So instead of having only a few unqualified persons now we have hundreds of unqualified persons. And where there is no leaders anymore, then they had this 50 men committee thing which was the biggest joke in the world. Like you need some kind of leadership, right, but after all this collapse what they did is that 50 men committee dragged down every leader. Now there is no leaders. And then what is there? There's nothing. And the whole movement was like dry. Then there is all these new people on the GBC and they thought now we are gonna do it right. The old GBC stank, and they're all crazy, and now we're gonna do it right. And I'm just sitting there watching these guys, they're ten times more incompetent than the old GBC. And they are thinking they're doing it right, they're doing everything wrong. And they don't even care to hear about it, and then again and again it goes on and on, and I'm thinking it's just getting worse, not better. And at the same time I know what to do right, nobody listens to me, nobody cares. And so by Laxmi's grace and by the arrangements of some Russian devotees we managed to get a lot of money. And then I started spending it on the children to protect them from abuse, to give them education, to help the educators, because I want to help the brahmanas. Because the real society means you've got to help the brahmanas, the women, the children, the cows and the old men. This means brahminical culture. This means the actual thing. You've got to help people, you can't just exploit them all the time. So I thought we have to do this. So then when I had some money all of a sudden everything changed. People who I would never even think of being friends with all of a sudden started becoming very friendly with me. Just like Badrinarayan, who used to just, always anything I said he would criticize or just change it up or turn it around. Ravindra Svarup who used to think of me as like one of the most horrible people on earth, I guess, I don't know what. But when I got money things changed. Ravindra never was influenced by money, he was actually quite good, but Badri he changed. When there was money he changed. And others they changed, you know. They started thinking of me: "Oh, maybe he's a good guy, right, because he has money". And then they started doing this and that, and the other thing, and people started being very friendly to me, and everything. And I'm thinking: "Ok." Internally this made me quite sick. Because I never used money to make anybody love me or I never used money to control anybody. I used to just give it away and I never even thought of whether they're using it right or not. I never asked for accounts or I never asked for anything, because it wasn't my money. I think this is money coming from God, so I use it in a service of God. You know, Krishna wants it, Ok fine. I never was attached like that, I never used it for myself personally, not one penny. So I used everything for others, and I never cared what they did it for. And then they were becoming more friendly and I'm thinking: "God, there's something intrinsically wrong with all this." Anyway I was trying all these years to establish a social structure in ISKCON, because I saw here's a society based purely on communism. Purely communism, everything communism. Nobody has any economic independence, nobody can even take care of himself, if he gets sick there's no one to take care of him, you could die in a temple no one would give it damn. And no one cares about others. It's like a, there's the temple president who's in charge of everything, and the GBC. Everybody thinks the GBC is in charge of everything, although they had zero power to accomplish anything, and zero understanding what to do. And everything is just centralized, centralized, centralized, and I'm thinking: "This is nuts." It has to be localized. Everybody has to be independent, take care of themselves. Everybody has to have their own economy, in communities or however they want to do it. People have to have their own money, their own source of income. They have to be personally responsible to the government for things that they're doing. It's can't always depend on others, and always be trying to avoid everything in this communistic system. And that's why the children were so abused. The children were so abused because no one cared about the children because of this rule. If you have illicit sex that means you're fallen. But who can live in this world without having some sex enjoyment? The whole material world runs on this thing. And you take the most attractive principle in the whole material world, which is sex life, and then you completely negate it, totally. And at the same time you have people get married. Just like Hayagriva once said: "What's the use of getting married - it's like going to a feast and not eating anything". And Prabhupad said: "Yes, that's the whole idea." Now why in heaven's name would you go to a feast and not eat anything? Why in heaven's name would you get married to somebody? The reason you would get married is because you love the person. But not in ISKCON, in ISKCON two people are just put together. You marry her! Prabhupad did that in the beginning. You marry him, you marry her, you marry her, he did that once. It doesn't work, you see. You have to love each other. And if you love each other you're gonna be attracted to each other. If you love your wife, for instance, you gonna look at her as beautiful. And if you look at her as beautiful, and you love her, now how in heaven's name are you not gonna touch her? And if you touch her, how, if you are a normal healthy person, how in heaven's name are you not going to feel something? But in ISKCON everybody's trained to not feel, because if they feel then their desires will arise, and if they have desires, there's something wrong with them. Because you shouldn't have desires, you should be transcendental. You should be like a stone, with no feelings, then you won't feel sex desire, isn't it? Therefore everybody becomes an impersonalist. So they don't have to feel desires. And what - we have the movement of impersonalists, who have no feelings. And then they all have these superficial feelings of love. q …In what way do I feel I was mistreated by the EC members?.. You talked about the EC members, just like when they first came. Yeah, they were very very friendly and happy, and I was trying to help them by instructing them how they were so contaminated. And then at one point they were going on, I said: "Ok, look, I got to go". And then they said, then all of a sudden they came out with a real thing: "What do you think about Srila Prabhupad?" And then I've explained it in a nice way and then we came back. Right? And on the way back they came up with a real "real thing". Which is that "how can you think yourself so advanced if you love some woman?" That was their whole point. Badrinarayan, Abhiram, even Hari Sauri to a certain extend although Hari Sauri is quite a different person. Pushing me like anything. Practically drilling me into the ground. I said: "Do you think, that if you love a person that means you can't be a devotee, you can't be advanced?" I said: "What about Bhaktivinoda Thakur? How many children he had? You think he didn't love his wife? He loved her like anything! Srila Prabhupada had so many children. You know. And what about Kardama Muni and Devahuti?" And they said: "Oh, this and this and so many things,"- you can go on and on and on. But their real point was: I'm a sahajiya who can't have any love for God because I'm attached for some woman. Now, that's far out. You know on the heavenly planets every single demigod is attached to some woman. In the spiritual world - everybody is attached. Even in the Goloka Vrindavan - they are all attached to Srimati Radharani. Krsna is attached. Wherever you go in the Vaikuntha planets every single devotee there has a consort. But here in the material world, where it's the main principle - we can't have this thing any more. Why? No illicit sex. No sex outside of marriage. I say no sex outside of marriage. I mean I didn't even say that anymore, I didn't care about principles anymore. It's so crazy. Whatever you make a principle everybody goes insane. So they say: "No illicit sex" - Ok! What does that mean? You only have sex to produce children. But if you only have sex to produce children, that means you only having children to have sex. And that means you don't really care about the children. And that was proved - phalena pariciyate - you prove it by sending the children often to continents, other continents, where you don't even care about them. Where they've been put in the hands of unqualified people, because nobody cared about paying for the teachers, because the only way you're gonna get good people is to pay them. Because good people aren't interested in working for free or just working for some prasadam which was cooked by somebody who didn't understand anything about how to cook or how to care about others. And how you are just told that you can have a toothbrush if you want it. You are householder, right? Your child needs something, you have to go to the treasurer. "I need diapers for my baby". Now the treasurer says: "Well, why do you need diapers, why you just don't get a towel and wash it every day?' Or: "How many diapers you need?" - "Well, I need 13 diapers" - "Why you need 13 diapers, why you just don't get two and buy more tomorrow?" - "Then I have to come back to you and beg for diapers" - "No, no, that's ok, we don't have any money" And in this way a householder is totally degraded into a beggar. And everybody is degraded into begging some people who are totally unqualified, heartless, cold and cruel, and in this way everybody comes under their control. Just like Radhanath with Sakti. When I didn't have any money to have any vegetables or anything after they've decided, that I was totally in maya and that I'm a demon, they don't give me money anymore. Because that's the way you do it. When somebody does something you like, you give him money, when you doesn't like you don't give him money. Just like before. Devotees gave me so much funds in order to just buy what I needed, of cause I never bought what I needed, I always gave it away, but they gave me so much just in case it was like that. And then, when they decided there is something wrong with me all the money stopped. Just like they all say: "We consider ourselves your disciples but we are not gonna give you any money until you come under our control and do what we want and then we'll give you money again. Just like Sakti wouldn't give Radhanath any money, although Radhanath worked so hard to build up that Abentheuer place and other places. And he couldn't even live in the temple. They wouldn't even give him a room. They wouldn't even give him money to buy food, because they are controlling everybody with money. I think it's sick. Anyway this is going on. So in January, after 20 years of the social structure to that movement which was based on real varnasrama principles, real economic principles, real proper principles where people can be solid and situated in themselves economically, socially, where they can have friends, where they can be familiar in the family, they can love their wives, they can love their children, they can feel emotions, because if you can't even feel love to your fellow man how you're gonna feel love for God? You think you are gonna love God and have no feelings for anyone else. You think you can be a stone and in the material world and have opened heart and love for God? If you have love for God you love all living entities. You love all His parts and parcels. You can't just love only this one or that one. "I only love God but I hate everybody else". And if you really love others it's not just a question of smiling at them and petting them on the back and embracing them and saying "Oh, how nice". It's a question of commitment to these people, commitment to the children. To protect them, to educate them. To give them away to grow into a society where they have their own lives and they can expend their own lives and be situated. But this is not happening, it never happen properly, they don't care about varnasrama dharma. They don't care about social structure. Varnasrama doesn't even matter any more. Because it's already going on out there, you don't even need varnasrama any more. Actually when you get into the essence of it you simply need to love. You have to love each other and care for each other, that's the essence of social structure. As a family and you love your wife your wife loves you, you love your children, you love your relatives, you love your friends, you love your community, you love the whole world. And then you work together as one family, and one family with the goal, because we love God. And we want to serve Him nicely. But in ISKCON that's totally impossible, because everything is screwed up, it's supposed to be the best movement in the world with the "greatest people in the world", but they don't even understand point "A", which is how to have a proper social structure in which everything can be based. And they are deathly afraid of it. And they say "It's a designation" but they are filled with designations. Totally, completely. They say it's material, but they are total materialists. There is no spirituality in that. And then I'm seeing all this and trying to push it subtly, subtly, subtly, subtly. Say it the right way, be edited. Everything I say has to be edited, and checked and made proper and made nice. Ok, I'm finished with that. What I say you are gonna have to accept or not accept that's up to you. I'm not saying anything as a guru. You know this idea being a guru has destroyed everything. You are simply a guru and everybody accept everything what you say, blindly, without thinking about it, without feeling. You have to consider the reality. You accept blindly all these years to be an impersonalist in the so called personalistic movement. You accept blindly to harm thousands and thousands of children and women by calling them less intelligent by calling them lusty, by calling them the source of material existence and so many things. Without even considering that they are the strength of the men. They are the strength of the intelligence of the men. They inspire them to do wonderful things. Behind every great man is the great woman. This are simple basic principles. Marshall mulch(?) said "if it wasn't for women there would be no economic development". So in ISKCON all they care about is an economic development. But they never got it because they rejected the energy which causes the economic development. And they are all looking for love. But they reject rejected the energy which is giving that love. And what have they ultimately rejected, they have ultimately rejected Srimati Radharani, Who is the source of all this. In our movement you are not even allowed to say Radharani, you can't even chant Her name, because if you do, you are sahajiya, or you are this or that or the other thing. Now, I'm not gonna get into this too much, because this is so far away, nobody can even come close to that. But the point is we have to get back to the basics. · … Why did I start taking vibhuti in the first place? And in January, you know - you've asked about vibhuti - the reason that I've started taking that stuff because Citesvar said that my brain was burned out by some kind of tantric poison which was given to me, because I was very sick. Citesvar said that I had some time a tantric poisoning at that time. And he took it out and then he said that I needed this stuff in order to repair my brain from the tantric poison. And he said: "you only have to take it for three months". Ok, I took it, I didn't like it at all. Then he said after three months: "you have to take it for two years", and after that he said: "you have to take it for your whole life". And so I took it, I took it, I took it. But although it was a very powerful demoniac psychotropic drug, I didn't stop working, I kept on working, I kept increasing, I kept doing more and more. But in January 17th I decided: "This stuff is disgusting", and I just gave it up. And for three days I couldn't sleep properly, and on the forth day I slept properly and after that everything was fine. But in the mean time my energy increased many times and I started working, but the energy increased not on the physical level, it increased on the etheric level, because what he was doing was suppressing my etheric existence so I couldn't do what I had to do to save the world, because he knew who I was and he knew what I could do. And he new he had to stop me because he's a demon. And so that's exactly what he did and when I found out what was going on I gave it up. I think it's all Krsna's arrangement anyway, but that's another thing. · …Somebody said I had severe mental and physical breakdown. Was it so?... …And then I had so much power to do what I had to do, and I could see clearly what was going on. So I started doing more and more and more faster and faster to somehow save the movement. But then I realized it wasn't possible, because all the movement really needed was money and some love. But neither of those things could I supply, because Laxmi devi withdrew Her mercy and everything was lost. And can you imagine when everything was lost and all I wanted to do was to somehow help these children and help the women and make the society proper. And I'm thinking who's gonna do it? How this is gonna be done? Because in ISKCON it only works this way and then in the middle of May I'm collapsing more and more, totally upset inside, nobody to talk to, nobody to explain these things to, because I thought if they find out that there is no money they will hate me or whatever, because that all they are really cared about. And then at the bottom of it, you know, it just got too much for my body, it was collapsing more and more. And then on whatever it was June 2nd due to having migraine headaches from so much of anxiety from all of this and my body was totally collapsing, then at the same time I was more and more taking shelter of the Lord and deciding I couldn't live here any more in this world, because it wasn't possible, everything was crazy, I've tried for so many years, to change the movement, they didn't care about me at all, about really what I sad. Only if there are some money then somebody listen and actually they don't really listen, they just simply be nice to you, so that they can get the money. But deep down they don't want to change anything. And then somehow or other Krsna arranged that my body collapsed totally and completely, Gauracandra was there holding my feet doing some reflex massage at that time. And during that time I knew I was gonna die because I had so much pain in my chest I can't imagine, my whole chest was being ripped to pieces by the pain, my heart was totally ripped to pieces with the pain. And I knew I was gonna die. And I knew I had maybe three, four or five minutes left, so I simply was chanting, I don't know what I was chanting but inside I was just taking shelter of the lotus feet of Radha-Madhava. The way I did it was just the way I supposed to do it. Although nobody can understand. I detached myself from every single designation that I've ever had. I detached myself from attachment to money, I detached myself from attachment to all people, I detached myself from attachment to this body, I detached myself from attachment to the mind, from the intelligence, I detached myself from designations, such as being Harikesa Swami, I detached myself from every single material thing there was. At the end there were no more attachments especially when the pain was getting incredible severe, I couldn't remain in the body, I took full shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Sri Radha-Madhava and Lord Nrisimhadev and I left… And there I was. Gone! And somehow or other, some minutes later I was forced back into the body. I don't know how it happened. I remember when it happened I didn't like it at all. And I woke up later on in a hospital and I was totally bewildered: "What am I doing here again?" I left, I'm gone, I gave up everything, all designations finished, I'm going back to Radha and Krsna! That's the end. And now I'm back. Why? Why? I couldn't figure it out. I didn't fit in the body. You know, people who leave their body like that in actual death… This was not a "near death experience", this was not "out of body experience", this was death. And when people are forced to come back like that for some higher purpose, it was totally impossible for me to live in this body properly. Because it was very very difficult. It wasn't a nervous breakdown. Nervous breakdown is another thing. It wasn't just a physical collapse. This was a total outer devastation of existence due to being completely disgusted with the way things were going on in material world and wanting to give up completely and totally and go back to Godhead and forget about the whole thing… · …have my views actually chanched that drastically?.. …Anyway, after that time I was a different kind of a person. I'm not a different soul, that's insane, you know, I'm the same person. But I'm no longer hiding, you see, that's the difference. I always felt like this. But now I'm not hiding anymore. Now I'm telling the truth. And I'm not going to be under anyone's control. I'm not going to be under the control of the movement, I'm not going to be under the control of a Governing Body Commission, I'm not going to be under the control of an institution, I'm not going to be under the control of anybody, unless those persons, I want to be under the control of due to love. No other reason then that. I'm not gonna be controlled by money, I'm not gonna be controlled by influence, I'm not gonna be controlled by anything, so I'm completely free to say the truth. The raw, honest, hard, very difficult to accept truth, that everything was screwed up totally and completely. And I know why it was screwed up. And sometimes I said some of the reasons why… · …How was the principle of no illicit sex causing the destruction of thousands of people in ISKCON?.. …And the main reason I thought was this rule, which separated men and women. And made them opponents and enemies in the family. It made the husband and wife an enemy. The husband wanted something, the wife wanted something, but they couldn't have it because there is a rule there. One day one want it the other one didn't want. If they have sex they feel so guilty about it because there was this rule. And they felt that guilt ruined their lives! And these poor children were being harmed because of that psychologically and emotionally, you know. You can go on to it very deep. This is just a phone conversation. I can't go on to it so much longer. I mean, you can very much go into a whole psychological emotional analysis of exactly what it means when you are married to somebody you love and attracted to and you can not have a physical relationship - It's not just physical relationship, it's a loving relationship, but physical manifestations of love are natural. Just see how Lord Siva and Goddess Parvati act, or other demigods. These are natural things, this is not unnatural, it's not wrong. And this whole principle destroyed all loving relationships. And from that everywhere all loving relationships destroyed. People taking sannyas when they don't want to. I was forced to take sannyas, I didn't want to do it. I was forced. For the higher principle. Always the higher principle. Everything for the higher principle. But I say it's not a higher principle, it's a lower principle. The highest principle is to develop love of Godhead. And to develop love of Godhead you have to first of all have some love for yourself and others. You ask any devotee, what he thinks about himself. And what does he think? - "Oh, I don't like myself". - Why you don't like yourself?. Because basically.. - they don't want to say it, they never say it, but the real reason is - "I have desires". And what are my desires? "I desire enjoyment". And what is the enjoyment, most desired? "I want pleasure of sex. But I can't have it. Because there is this rule. And anyone who wants that is a demon. Therefore I'm a demon, therefore I hate myself". And what's the solution? - "Go back to Godhead". That's the solution. "Go to the spiritual world". Why? - "Because I'm a demon and I hate myself, I can't live in the material world, I can only live in the spiritual world, therefore get liberation". But you can't get liberation if you don't even love yourself and you don't love Krsna's parts and parcels. And what's the use of having a movement where the only thing you can get is at the end. You know, when you die, then you get liberation. Why? - "I don't know. That's so!" The thing is what's the use of this getting liberation at the end. What's the use of a sectarian movement where during lifetime people are totally screwed up and unattractive. Intelligent people are not attracted to Krsna Consciousness movement. Intelligent people are not attracted to such a sectarian thing with so many rules, millions of rules. You can't do this, you can't do this you can't do that, and nobody follows them. Just like GBC resolutions. GBC may have passed, I don't know, hundreds and thousands of resolutions. Who even knows them, who even cares about them? The GBC members themselves don't even care about them. …Ok. Rules, and rules, and rules, and rules, and rules, and no one cares about the rules. Especially in "no illicit sex" - they do it anyway! But now they fill guilty about it. And that harms them even more. You know? Harms them even more, you get people all over the place doing illicit sex in all different forms. Big big secrets! You know husbands and wives having illicit sex in different ways, sometime even perverted ways, in order to avoid having pregnancies. And people masturbating all the times. I used to get letters from the persons who people used to think were crazy. And used to just say how this is so disgusting everywhere. And what can we do about it. And at the same time you've got, you know, this "no contraceptives" business... · …about contraceptives… …I don't know anything about contraceptives, really, except they used to have "birth control pills" in the sixties and they give you cancer. But there are people who know about these things and do it in a very nice way, you know. Jayapataka Swami said he has a disciple who know a pranayam techniques for contraceptive which are very very nice and which are very very Vedic. There are also tantric techniques but I don't know if we are interested in that. There are many many techniques. But you know there is this philosophy that the spirit soul enters the sperm and before gets into the egg. And therefore the contraceptive is sinful, right? Now, ok, many men who are sexually repressed pass semen at night left and right. And does that mean its sinful, at night, that they are killing these living entities who are supposed to take birth? It such a sick thing, you know. And I know Hari Sauri, he is a very… Actually I like Hari Sauri very much - He was telling me that he and his wife they were not following the rule so strictly because they know there is a higher principle there, right? And then he said, he told me wonderful thing about when his child was to take birth. First of all Hari Sauri's child is a very very special girl, she is very very celestial, very very beautiful girl, one of the most beautiful girls I've ever so. And he said when they produced that child they very much wanted to call the child from the heavenly planets. Because that's the way you should do it. When you have a child it should be the most special person in the whole universe should be your child. And then his wife understood later on - they were at Radha-Kunda or something - when the child actually entered into her womb. She felt it , it wasn't just philosophy, she felt the child entering into her womb, later on. I do not think that contraceptives are sinful. It is just something that is part of life. And there has been contraceptives as long as there's been people. Even in the Assirian philosophy, Assirian, you know the Assirian Jews? They have many many many techniques for birth control. It's always been like that. Just people didn't talk about it. There are many many natural techniques, just like when doctor Bruno …, he said there is 50 different birth control patterns. Of Assirian methods. Which are all natural - different kinds of methods. If you do investigation you can figure it all up. That's not my business. What am I know about these things? Now, unregulated illicit sex. That's another important point. If you just have sex like mad, that is also not good. However, if that were you are at - what can you do? What can repression accomplish? Now, if you do it for a while, then after a while you get bored with it, you know? You'll decide it's not the right thing. And then you'll advance. Because it's all a question of consciousness. Even I tell you something - … · the difference between guide and guru …that's what I don't like about this guru business - you say: "do this" and everybody has to follow, right? But they don't feel about it, they don't realize it! And if you say: "do what you like", right? Then they go crazy and do this and that and the other thing. But that actually not what happens. What happens is they do what they like but then they come back to you in a right way. If you let something go and it does not come back to you - it wasn't yours in the first place. …That's right. So, now you can do what you like. What does it mean? - You do what you know! Because what can repression accomplish? Repression accomplishes nothing - everybody acts according to his nature, under all circumstances… · the role of sex life … No one can avoid his nature. If it's your nature to enjoy in a certain way - you gone a do it anyway, whether it's hidden or public, or whatever. And when you gradually advance your consciousness, when you gradually develop good qualities, when you are healed within, especially in that etheric body - then the way in which you express your love will be more and more pure. That doesn't mean no sex, it's just means more and more pure. Just like in the higher realms, the higher regions, the heavenly planets and even in Vaikuntha - it's more pure, it's more pure and it is more enjoyable in it's pure state. It's not just lusty desires in the material world, it's pure. Just like gold and iron. You know? It's more and more pure. It doesn't mean that in the spiritual world there is not what is in material world. In the spiritual world there is more then in the material world. It's better then the material world. And in this way you may start of on a low platform but gradually you elevate. Because if all the time you try to chant Hare Krsna and all you are thinking about is having sex, or you've repressed it back in your mind so far that you don't think about it. But you are dissatisfied, you're not happy, you don't know why, you're not feeling spiritual bliss, you're not feeling advancement, you do not understanding everything, and you don't know why! It's because you haven't resolved your basic unsatisfied desires… · who to blame for the failers Ok. You can blame me, it's alright, you can blame me. I accept the blame. I feel that there has been many many wrong things preached in ISKCON. And because I'm a company man, because I preached the "party line" I had to things in a way in which I didn't really want to do. Lets just use an example of one of my disciple who I don't want to mention. He is a very lusty fellow. He goes out and he has sex with different people, here and there and everywhere and thinks that nobody knows about it, but they always find out about it. I never thought badly about them for that because I knew what he was doing. Now, his wife also desires him very much, but she is more dutiful, she doesn't want to break principle. So she called me up once and said: "he wants to go away. What do I do?" And then, because I'm a company man I thought: "damn it!", What I really wanted to tell her is: "Why don't you two you guys go off for a vacation and do it till you are blue in the face and gradually get over this. But I couldn't say that, what I said was: "well, know, you got to follow principles, you know, you got to be strict, and that and the other thing". I hated myself for it. And I've been saying for years like that. But whenever somebody was in trouble or whatever I always forgave him immediately, I never gave them any difficulty. Even if they ran off with somebody else I always let them switch wives or switch husbands, because I knew, it is crazy to put the people together artificially. And just find the right partner I didn't care how you did it behind the scenes I let everything go on. But that's not the right way to do it. It's hypocrisy. If you say: "no illicit sex" right? But behind the scenes you are saying: "do whatever you want" - it's hypocrisy. It's crazy, because people feel sick inside because they are breaking the principle. Therefore what I always wanted to do was change things. All along. I thought from the very beginning: "it was done wrong". In many many many ways. But I couldn't change it. Because I didn't have the power. I knew I had the authority but I didn't have the power, you see. Of cause I feel sorry for it. It breaks my heart what I had to say to them all the time. I hated it that I had to hide all the time my real feelings… · guide or guru… …Therefore I don't think anybody should be a disciple. You should use your own brain. You should listen to what people say and if there is something good, you accept it and if there is something not good, then you don't accept it. Don't follow blindly. Just like we had all to follow blindly for the sake of following some guru or following some leader or whatever. Don't just follow. Be independently situated person. Use your own intelligence. And if something is good, then you can follow. And if something is not good, you shouldn't follow. I don't care of, Madhava Puri! I don't care anymore. I presented so many things so nicely for so many years - nobody cares. Take it or leave it. I don't care. I'm not in ISKCON anymore. I'm not a leader in ISKCON anymore. I'm not a guru anymore. All I am is a guide. And that's really what a guru should have been all along. I know something. I know a lot. And I'm going to help people with it by just telling them about it. If they like it - fine, if they don't like it - fine! And then what they can do? - They can do whatever they like. I don't care. What can I do , I can't be attached to what you think. Now, it's not up to me to present think right all the time. That's not the way I am. I present things from the heart. And I think that is always better. Just like if a husband and wife are together and are always being diplomatic. One says like this, one says like that, one says the other thing, - I've read a book the other day, where it is said that in the beginning, when there is a courtship relationships - there is always cheating going on. Like the woman present herself like this, the man present himself like that. But if you want to have a long term lasting relationships with somebody - you should just be yourself, whatever you are. Because if you have a partner who loves you as yourself, whatever it is then you've got a real partner. But if you got somebody who loves you for what you think they are or what they are presenting themselves to be in order to attract you… Because that what I thought these two problems here with guru. Number one: people thought of me in a certain way. They thought of me as this big renounced sannyasy bla bla bla. First of all, I was that to a certain extend, but I wasn't that inside. I never wanted to get married. I'm not that kind of a person. I'm a very loving person. You know I'm not that kind of a person. I like personal relationships. And they always thought of me as this hard hard and this and that. I'm not at all hard, I'm very soft. I gave everything to everybody. Whatever anybody wanted - I gave them, I just satisfied their desires all along. I love children, you know. I'm not at all what they made me out to be. But, you know, I had to play a role, because that's what they wanted. But that's wasn't a real relationship, because they always told… They told me after I've collapsed: "you've got to change". Kamalasundari said: "Astrology - have to change", Hari Sauri said: "Astrology - I have to change". Everybody was pushing me: "You've got to change, you've got to change, you've got to change, in order that you'll don't break down again". So I changed! And then they said: "Hey, that's crazy!" And I said: "Make up your mind people. If you want me to live - I've got to change, so I changed". You say: "better you died, because if you've died, then you wouldn't get changed and we wouldn't be upset, because we've lost our conception of you". Ok. So they want me to live so I've changed then they said that: "better if you should have died". Ok. Look. I tell you what: "You guys have fun in your ISKCON in your buildings doing whatever you want, I'll be somewhere else doing what I want. And I'll be me. And if you want to love me as me - well, that's fine! Not me as your conception. If you disciples are out there just waiting for me to become what you want, if you are trying to seduce me, right? Lets say, all the disciples are out there saying: "we are just waiting for you to come back to ISKCON. We are just waiting for you, we haven't given you up, just waiting for you. We haven't given you any money all this time, because we are just waiting for you when you do what we want and you come back to ISKCON and you are the big big guru again and the big big sannyasy, then we'll give you money again and everything will be alright. You won't have to work so hard, you won't have to worry about anything". I say: "Forget it. You want to love me, you love me as I am. And "as I am" means somebody who says things which you may not like. Because the truth hurts. If you want to advance, you got to work. You have to work hard. Self-discipline, you have to work on yourselves, you have to advance your own intelligence. You can't be a lobotomized zombie following some sect. A lobotomized zombie who also has his genitals cut off and has no heart. …That's fine. And also a guru has to present himself in a certain way. Right? He has to smile at his women disciples so that they become attracted to him so they go out and do things for him. I'm not criticizing anybody, I'm just making statements. Just because I say something, doesn't mean it applies to everybody at all times and all places. I'm just talking how I feel. I'm talking from the heart. And I think it is about time that somebody did that. Somebody talks from the heart, somebody tell the truth, somebody tells what's actually going on, somebody makes you change. The emperor has no clothes! It's time to change! We have to change fast! The world is coming to a very crushing conclusion. Fast! We have to do something. If you really think you are something special, if you really think you've got the way, you've got the answer, well do something about it and help people, and stop worrying about yourself. Because you can't even satisfy your own desires. Get yourself situated first, then you can help others. Save yourself first. Isn't that the Vedic aphorism? You can't save yourself if you are totally dependent on some institution which is controlling you through money… · …what do I consider the best way to help another person?. …The best way to help another person is to wake him up - what's actually going on and get him out of the situation so he can actually be free enough to think for himself and understand what's actually right and do it. You don't have to. We are taping it all here. You think I'm gone a trust that: you are gone take everything and present it exactly as I'm saying? Yeah, I know, but usually what happens is I say something and then they say: "Oh, God! This is so radical! Oh, God! This is so extreme! Oh, God! This is so heavy! Oh, God! This is not properly presented, we need communications departments. We need editors. We need brahmanas to see if this is right. We have to have a meeting and see what we think and then we'll pass a resolution to see what we can do. And maybe something will happen. Just wait". - You can forget it. What I'm saying is what's needed. It's the medicine. Medicine hurts sometimes. It tastes bad sometimes. That doesn't mean you don't take it. When there is an operation needed, when the patient is in critical condition, he's got a cancer in his heart and brain - they have to go in with a knife, chap the skull, open the chest, get the knife and rip it out. They don't have PR agents there making sure that rip it out in a very nice way. They do what has to be done properly, because the doctor knows exactly what is needed. And the expert doctors know exactly what to do and although others may not understand it - the doctor knows what to do. And when the operation is over and the patient actually wakes up from the operation - the patient will say: "How did it go doctor?" the doctor will say: "it's fine, just get healthy and enjoy life and gradually advance just to where you want to be". My plans? My plans are to save the world somehow or another. But not through any institution. I'm creating a company as soon as possible called "Earth's Future". Because that's the future. Earth's Future. We're all in it together. It's not just "Hare Krsnas". It's not just Catholics. It's not just Protestants. It's not just Jews, it's not just Hindus. It's everybody. We are in it together. The Earth is in it together. All of us are in it together. It's not that you can just transform a couple of people's consciousness. The Earth will be finished unless the consciousness is transformed of all the people. Or at least the most intelligent people of the world. If the most intelligent people of the world, hardly any of whom are in ISKCON, got together and actually did something to save this world - it would change. So what I want to do is to create a center for actual healing. What I want to do is actually is create a center for therapy and training to actually heal people on a very deep level so that they can get over the fear - everybody scared to death of what's gonna happen, and to get over the fear of that and to actually become strong and to understand what to do in a positive way to actually save the world. And actually ultimately to bring people to the platform of love of God, which is the only solution. But that's a long long way of way. We have to first of all love each other. Now this war in Yugoslavia. I have just heard on the radio when I was coming. Ok, fine. They gonna continue fighting with each other until they elevate their consciousness. The UN - they can do this and that, the NATO can do this and that. They will never stop. There will always be one war after another getting worse and worse and worse. And how you gonna stop all the natural things that are happening too? And the economic chaos? Hedge funds collapsed. Completely. All the bank in hysteria. All the investments are in hysteria. Why? Because the things are going down and no one knows what to do. But actually I know what to do, and I'm gonna do it. And anyone who wants to be part of it they can do that. But they must be independently situated. I'm not gonna support them. I may hire somebody when the company is established. It has to be legally set up. I need help to do that. I need a lot of help right now. Anybody wants to be part of this in the very beginning, who has the good brain and the understanding and intelligence to understand what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it, and what's the purpose behind it, may be they can even ask, whoever they have to ask to figure out how to do it and why I'm doing it, that's fine, but it has to be done fast, there is no time to wait. Thank you. What do you trying? To get my address by different tricks? Yes. You send everything... Anybody who wants to send anything to me they can send it to Guru-Sakti here in Dole. I'm not afraid to give it out my address, I just don't want weird those coming here. And when I set up the company and everything then everything will be very public and all devotees who want come and get therapy and training and understand what was wrong and do things in a right way. We are opening the doors for them we'll even give them a very good price. And we'll open the door for all intelligent people all over the world who want to get the strength to handle the situation so that we can together make a solution to save the world. We are in it together. I think that superior spiritual consciousness is the solution, and it is God consciousness. If you want to call God Krsna - that's fine, if you want to call Him Allah - that's fine, if you want to call Him Jehovah - that's fine, it's just a name. Krsna is God. If He is really God, it doesn't matter which name you use. But the principles are what counts. The principles are what counts. The things behind God consciousness are what counts. Not the rules, the specific dogma of each and every religion is not what's important. "Don't do this , do this, don't do this. Don't have children, unless you ask your guru first". Rules are what ruins everything. Because people just don't even follow them and gradually they loose interest. There has to be elevation of consciousness. When your consciousness is elevated, automatically you do everything beautifully. And you get guidance from elevated spiritual people. …Ok ...Who? Kanka? You know she was the one who had me join the movement. She is a wonderful girl. Thank you very much, that's great! Yeah, she was totally screwed up by Kirtanananda. She was totally screwed up by Kirtanananda. She was also jolly in the beginning, but she got ruined, like many many many thousands of devotees got ruined. Nice people, they were nice people, they were sincere, they were honest, they were seriously looking for something higher, and instead they got cut in a web of something bizarre which destroyed their lives. Or, is it that you want to go. It is not a problem for me, I can talk intensely for ten hours, I have no problem. It's just that people can't handle me. People can handle me. Ah? I don't know if they are supposed to handle me or not. It's their choice. If you want to come in contact with fire you better be ready for the flame… That's their problem, I'm not in charge of anything that taking place anywhere - in Saint-Petersburg, I'm not telling Sannyas what to do, what not to do. Even though we work together. Even right now I'm together with Sannyas. But I don't tell, ever, that "you should do this with the BBT, you should do that with the BBT". I never say that, I never told Kamalamala: "You should do this, you do that". All I tell them is that you should make sure the devotees are self-sufficient economically, they are not exploited, they are taken care of, they're being given a facility to make their lives stable. I'm not a leader of any movement… Yeah… Here, you can talk to Sannyas, he is right here… I'm not gonna continue. I got to eat, you know, I haven't eaten for so long. Sannyas is not a demon, he's a great person. Actually in the beginning I said Sannyas should be in charge completely of the entire country of Russia, but they couldn't handle it because he was also heavy. Of cause at that time he was not so qualified personally, but he is gradually developing more and more… A? Very good heart, super good heart. Armenians especially have a super good heart. And they are also very mystical people, you know. They understand things on a higher level then other people. They are very special people but people don't understand it. They think… because they don't have money, right, people think they are low class. But actually they have a heart, they have culture, they have intelligence, they have knowledge and they have a real good understanding of what's going on. But people don't respect them, because they don't have money, because all people care about in this world is money. You know, I have to pay for this phone call. Yeah, because from Germany to France - I have to pay, yeah. If you are really sorry you would send me a check to pay for the phone call (laughing). After all I worked, I've built up the BBT the way it is today. And can you imagine, they don't even give me nothing? Yeah, can you imagine, anybody in a material word who worked for 22 years to make something huge and at the end when he retires, right, they wouldn't even give him any money, anything, nothing, not even a gold watch. And what they do is they try to destroy him in different ways. It's far out. You people are sick! …Yeah. Thank you. And if you want to help me, the doors are wide open but not in any other way except if you accept me. I mean as I am, for what I say… That's good that you don't agree a hundred percent. I think it's good you don't agree a hundred percent. You should think about it and agree with what you want to agree with. I can work with people who don't agree with me, but the basic point is we have to have the same mission and we have to have the same understanding. And people should understand that I can give good guidance and if they accept my guidance we can do things in a very very powerful way… That's good. That's great. Is that that boy in Malme? Yes, he's a very nice boy. Very good energy about him. Very nice qualities. Yeah, he's a very good boy. · … that I present things very heavily… I mean I don't like being heavy, Madhava Puri, you know that? I like being soft, I like being kind, I like being loving, but it doesn't work. Nobody cares. If you are soft and kind and loving they walk over your head because they are not soft and loving. If you are dealing with people who are soft and loving and kind - you can be soft and loving and kind. If you are dealing with people who are cold and heartless and only interested in money and power, you know, when you are dealing with criminals you can't be a saint. So therefore I had to say these things in this way, because it is the only way they understand. So please forgive me, you know, just personally between me and you, just forgive me. It's not that I want to be like this, I can't stand that. I'm a very soft and kind and loving person inside, you know. And finally at one point I want to be like that again… And sometimes when you go through these different moods, you know, then they think you are crazy, you are so extreme they say. Because at one point you are heavy like anything and at the other point you are a nice, kind, loving guy - they think you are crazy. They think the only way a person can be like that is to be schizophrenic. But they don't understand. Just like a woman. A woman can be so hard so cruel and so heavy and super loving and super kind and super tricky and super wonderful and super everything as she likes, as she works through the heart, not from the mind. And I also do like that. Ok? Hari Bol! |
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