I got into a hassle on the Internet in a seniors' forum.  After looking at a bunch of sites, even professional ones, I was appalled at the horrible grammar and bad spelling.  Read on if you're into hassles.

This was the original forum message in June 1999:

How come so many Americans on the 'Net are so horrendous in English? OK, I'll throw in Brits and Australians, too. Anybody else can be excused for not knowing where to put apostrophes, but a phrase like "between him and I" is starting to sound and look correct.

While I've been learning HTML, I've checked out a lot of web sites for design. How did some of these people graduate from school? I shudder to think that some are teachers now. What a terrible example to set for the kids who are now learning to read and write and using the Internet as a tool.

Blame can also go to the media.

Comments, anyone, or am I the only one cringing?

I've left out names, but this is how it went from there:

C: Are you referring to individuals in forums and chat rooms or to business and professional sites?

Z: I couldn't agree more! When I first went online, I thought it was just the kids in chats and thrown-together amateur websites. But I see glaring errors in all kinds of sites...not just chats and forums, but in the content areas as well. Sometimes they're simple typos, but too often you know the people doing the writing simply don't know any better. It's the culmination of years of poor education combined w/ the scan and move on mentality of the Internet.

G: I type the way I do because I'm a poor typist- never had a chance to learn it in school- had to quit early. I'm typing real slow now so I don't make any mistakes. If I offend anyone with my crappy typing and spelling then I'm sorry but I do the best I can. In the chat room most people can't help themselves- older- poor eyesight- arthritic hands- never touched a typewriter before in their lives and just now learning a computer. A lot of the older ones had to quit school early. It irritates the hell out of me when someone comes in and looks down there noses on us at least we are trying. Give us a break will you?

Z: G - You got it! Apologies are spilling out of me right now. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I appreciate the efforts and intent behind participation. I will never "look down my nose" at typos again.

L: G, BRAVO! BRAVO! I agree with you, and you need not be sorry for the way you express yourself...the communication is what is important. Thank you for making my day happier.

I continued. . .

Wow, I sure touched a sore point.

No, C, I don't mean chat rooms and forums. In a chat room, it's a matter of time, and not everyone is the greatest of typists. In a forum, who cares if there are typos? When you're intent on a subject, your brain goes faster than your fingers.

G, I certainly appreciate arthritis and all the ailments that don't let folks type properly. Z, you're right that participation means everything.

What I'm talking about is a web site, for example. If it's a business or professional site, there is no excuse whatsoever for shoddy spelling or grammar. No, I'm not going to hire a plumber because of the literary quality of the page, but if the author is unprofessional there, my basement might be flooded because of the underlying lack of professionalism in the plumber's work.

Regarding a home page, I'll give a little. You're right that some people may not have the education. However, when I did resumes for MBA students at one time, I was astonished at their illiteracy, so it's often a matter of sloppiness that increases with each ensuing generation.

Granted, spell checkers don't catch everything, and grammar checkers are great only in theory. It doesn't hurt to check a dictionary when one's doing a web page; do it on-line. Where's the pride in folks who do a slipshod job and are too lazy to check it or ask someone for an opinion? Would you send a kid to the senior prom with safety pins holding up the hem of her gown? No, you'd ask a friend or learn to sew.

What I'm ranting about is that the kids will figure these web site authors are their role models and never learn to write properly. Why should they? No one else does.

P.S. My native language is Estonian. I'm ceertainly not infallible, but I do try to be careful.

Z: I think we've clarified. I totally agree w/ what you're saying about the commercial sites and the sloppiness. Whew...didn't realize how I was coming off, tho! By the way, my first language is Spanish, so perhaps we're simply fussier about English.

L: "BE THYSELF AND THY OWN STUFF DO". The parents are the main example for children-not the internet or the people on it or the media. Proper english looks good in the textbooks but get real I don't know one person who was born with a book of instructions on proper english. It is wonderful that we all are unique in who we are and how we communicate. I love the differences and refuse to let negative judgement HORRENDOUS ENGLISH affect me. Get a life and find something more constructive to do--such as understand the message vs how it was written.

G: I'm ceertainly not infallible, but I do try to be careful. Try a little harder dear, and please save your lectures because they are boring me.

I chuckled. . .

Good for you, G!... Glad you're feisty enough to give us a good debate, and your participation is CEERTAINLY appreciated. (There WAS a joke in there, folks.)

L, I'm not discriminating against people who are communicating. Didn't know the folks on the Internet are barren, however. Must be a software problem. Luckily, both my children were born before I owned a computer.

Wouldn't it be nice if parents today had the luxury of being the main example? They work long hours and have to leave the upbringing of their children to a long list of babysitters, one of which is the Internet. The bad English is just one of the pitfalls the kids experience, albeit much farther down the list than the porn, bigotry, and violence.

How are they going to fare when they have to write a resume? Or do we assume that the person reading it will be as illiterate as them? Can they woo a client with shoddy advertising material? At least they'll be able to get jobs as script writers, since everyone always seems to get the four letter words spelled right.

Z, maybe the negative things we react against most are the ones we've tried so hard to correct in ourselves. Case in point: After my kids (then 6 and 10) and I had lived in Norway for two years, they cringed at my Norwegian pronunciation because they didn't have an accent by then.

To set our youth off in the right direction, we all have to contribute. Those children belong to all of us because they're our future. Think I'll set up a web page for English pitfalls. I'll be speaking from experience because I've probably made a goodly number of them! Z, want to contribute? Then we can watch the counter climb to 2.

Points for the person who catches the grammatical mistake I inserted in this message. Who's it going to be?
 

G: Didn't know the folks on the Internet are barren, however.

However, I didn't know the folks on the Internet are barren.

Or do we assume that the person reading it will be as illiterate as them?

You should have not used the word "Or" at the beginning.

"Nurse Krapchit" said it's time for my nap.
 

P: The following sentence doesn't sound right to me, but then what would I know? I always got D's in English....

Didn't know the folks on the Internet are barren, however.

My last message:

You're getting close, folks, but no cigar yet. Will have a surprise for the winner in a couple of days...
Really got you to read the message, whether you agreed with it or not. I enjoyed debating with you, but I still stand by what I said. The surprise for all you winners is this site, which I know you'll visit once to get the answer to the grammar point. Here it is:

   Or do we assume that the person reading it will be as illiterate as them ?

It should have read:

   Or do we assume that the person reading it will be as illiterate as they {are}?
 

G, I think using "Or" at the beginning of the sentence would be a no-no if I'd been trying to write War and Peace. It was just a forum, and I was trying to make a point, but you're probably rite .
 

Thanks for coming to play. Since I know how hard it is to get rid of my warts and dangling participles by myself, I'd like to point others in the right direction. It's easy to do if the tools are there. No, not easy, but easier. Like computers, it never gets totally easy. Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. Don't know who said it, but I agree wholeheartedly.