Are the teachings of Jesus and Marx compatible? Part of a continuing debate.

Why can't we link Marx to Stalin...Marx knew about the adaptation of marxism to Russia and eventually Marxism/Leninism...he should have known that left thought would have led to the same conclusion that right thought would have and that Marxism is not practical because power is the perversion that ruins any sytem. As for the comparisons between Marxists and Christians it is a bad analogy becasue of the amount of people involved. The population of Marxists in this world are probably 1 percent compared to the number of Christians, so generalizing Christian thought is to assume that all Christians think the same, which we obviously know as false.

<<Why can't we link Marx to Stalin...Marx knew about the adaptation of marxism to Russia and eventually Marxism/Leninism...>>

Are you suggesting that Marx had detailed knowledge of how “Marxism” was developing in Russia during his lifetime? And are you saying that he knew about “Marxism-Leninism” (which did not even come into being until well after his death)? And are you saying that if he did know about detailed developments of Russian “Marxism”, that he was responsible for the abuses of those who developed a Leninist doctrine after 1922, namely, Stalin? Such a line of reasoning requires several leaps, I think. As far as Russian socialism goes, Marx did comment in one letter that the Russians were bound to spoil socialism, as they had so badly spoiled so many other social systems. These remarks were censored in the official compilation of Marx’s works published in the USSR. Also, Plekhanov, the founder of Russian Marxism, opposed Leninism, and felt Lenin’s vanguardist, extreme views would do more damage to Russia than to help it.

<<As for the comparisons between Marxists and Christians it is a bad analogy because of the amount of people involved. The population of Marxists in this world are probably 1 percent compared to the number of Christians, so generalizing Christian thought is to assume that all Christians think the same, which we obviously know as false. >>

I was not claiming that “all Christians” think the same way. In fact, I agree with you that they do not. My point is that left-Christians have a great deal in common with socialists and Marxists, enough to be enable them to forge strong bonds, as occurred between the Sandinistas and communists in Nicaragua, and between the socialists and many Christians in Allende era Chile (1970-72) and among large numbers of religionists and Marxists in the world, and especially in Latin America.

seems funny that everyone seems to forget about sexism and homophobia in christianity.

I grew up under communism. I am Russian. My father was a Russian diplomat in Cuba, cammunism didn't work there either. It's like trying to roll a wagon on square wheels. It fundamentally fails to realize the mechanisms of capital and how they operate in the real world. It also makes erroneous assumptions about human nature. In order for it to 'work' a police state must be implimented.

What does work in these communist states is a system of corruption, state gangsterism, which was the only mechanism that really worked. This is true in Russia, Cuba and China, don't be fooled. Every time you give the state some control over a factor in your life, you give something up in return. It is a simple law with devestating penalties.

The founders of the American Republic were realists who didn't trust the state, the rule of the majority or themselves, because they knew the corrupt nature of human greed. The US Constitution, as it was originally written, is the greatest political document in history. Thomas Jefferson was a great man.
Marx, on the other hand, was a bitter idealist, who never held a real job in his life, lived off his wife jenny and just wanted to get back at the world. He did. Whereever Communism has ruled, the earth is filled wih secret graves. There is an old Soviet saying, that you can't step 10 feet in Yekaterinburg without stepping on someone's grave. This is nearly literally true: recent developement in Yekaterinburg is constantly unearthing the bones of disappeared Russians. It is estimated that over 50 million of us were killed by our government. How many in the US were secretly killed by theirs? Not so many by comparison I think.

By the way there is no such thing as "capitalism." This was a term coined by Marx to give him an idea to create an antithesis to. Historically there was never such a philosophy, any books purporting ot espouse this philosophy are of recent origin.

a liberated PycckN

Jesus rode a cross into hell (traditionally believed to be beneath the earth's surface right?
He went there to conquer, free and get something right?
He might have been served with a musical rockgrinder instead of the cross he got no?

Nietzsche saw very well that Jesus was an indymedia freak but he couldn't get down low enough to grasp the more fundamental layers of his motivation and understanding. He was alienated unto his nihilistic 'wild cardness'.

Novo has provided the most refreshing post I have seen on this forum. Communism will always fail, because it fails to take into account the human nature. There wull always be individuals who are willing to do whatever it takes, in order to get ahead of their neighbors/fellow citizens. Weither it be through honest hard work and effort, or by dishonest means; some people simply want more out of life. The idea that EVERYONE can be satisfied by accepting ONLY their share, is simply ludicrious!
And just as Novo stated, every example of communism/socialism in action, has shown the needs of these gov'ts to take away more rights, and install more rules; that more often then not, only apply to the general population. But not the privleged few in power. There is nothing in the history of the U.S. can truly compare to mistakes made by communist gov'ts in the past AND right now. Yes, the U.S. has plenty of skeletons, and black marks in our history. Some of these were out of ignorance, or unintentinal, and some were done with the follow knowledge of the concequences to follow. And these are mistakes that tarnish all Americans. And yes that includes those who choose to not consider themselves Americans. You live here, you work here. And the rights you have and exercise, are because you live in this country. You already know what the concequences are of protesting in many other countries. No matter what you think, it could be worse.
Changes do need to be made, in order to make the whole world better. But using out-dated, and experimental idiologys (yes communism was a 75 year experiment, and it FAILED) will not work.
Instead of revolution, try evolution. Adapt what we have, using the positive aspects, and incorperating new, and also positive changes.
I often wonder how many of the so-called activists who post here, have had the opportunity to visit, and live in countries where the citizens are TRULY oppressed. And yea, I know you want to blame the U.S. on their problems too. But Hey, most of these places don't need our help to go downhill. Try shifting back some of that blame back-on to the leaders who are making the decisions in some of these cesspools.

Good work Novo!

I am genuinely flattered that you made such a detailed critique of my hastily written item. This kind of measured response is a strength of the IMC.
Please note that I did not quote Nietzsche on the "Good Shepherd". That was my own observation in his spirit.
I maintain that christianity is outmoded, and represented a philosophical step back even in its own day, esp when viewed in the light of say, DEMOCRITUS, LEUKIPPUS, or ARISTOTLE.
Does it require deep insight to see that a modern liberation movement must be rational in its outlook, not based on a death cult ? Nietzsche was not a socialist, nor in fact a total atheist. What i think i have identified is that Nietszche and Marx approach the same crisis of western society , but Nietszche does so from a standpoint of UTOPIAN INDIVIDUALISM. By contrast, Marx the philosopher of atheist communism( please dont claim he was anything else but) attempts to build on the class conflict theories developed during the struggles of the 18th and 19th century. He was no simple collectivist like Proudhon. There are many kinds of collectivism, most of them are ANTIsocialist, and Marx knew it,

For Nietzsche, Antichrist !