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A Song of Ice and Fire / Announcements / The Citadel

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 4:36 PM
Well, we're ready to open up, really. We haven't got everything we would like, but we've some nice things that folk might enjoy. Including, as I remember, "Ran's notes . . ." ;)

Point your browsers to www.westeros.org and click on the Citadel links, or go directly there by trying www.westeros.org/Citadel/index.html

Markus
User ID: 8820133 Aug 11th 8:00 PM
Btw, your site is down again, Ran.

And, for some reason, my browser fails to show the both SoIaF graphics on the message board. They are invisible.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 11th 8:11 PM
The site isn't down, as such. Many folk in the U.S. are getting there. The server has moved a couple of times in the last days, however, as our site provider has moved. This leads to the DNS changing and to a subsequent need for propagation.

For us in Europe, that means a propagation delay of a day or two, unfortunately.

As to the graphics, same thing: they're kept on Westeros.org, so if you're not getting one, you're not getting the other.

Ghost
User ID: 1934244 Aug 14th 4:39 AM
Impressive stuf. That Concordance (btw, what does that mean?) must have taken ages to build. Great site!

Keep up the good work!

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 14th 7:27 AM
It's actually a little mis-used -- a concordance is an alphabetical listing of words or phrases used by an author in a text.

We used it because: a) It sounds cool and b) It makes its purpose plain to those people who know about the Wheel of Time Concordance done by Rhonda Peters. :)

Ghost
User ID: 9704903 Aug 15th 7:47 AM
As far as I'm concerned, you're forgiven for the mis-use of the word. Whatever it's called, it's great that it's there.

Lannister
User ID: 0136334 Aug 15th 9:05 AM
Hey, Ran, how's that ASoIaF Mush coming along? Sounds fun and I'm looking forward to it.

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 9:12 AM
Lannister,

It's going. We're plinking away at it regularly and trying to sort out various issues. We're now hoping for perhaps a winter opening. It's a bigger project then we imagined. :)

I suppose I should ask if we've got anyone experienced with the C language (not C++) and using it for the hardcoding of Tiny-based MU* servers? If so, and if you're interested in helping out, drop us a mail at [email protected] :)

And in other news ...

So Spake Martin finally updated. _NOTE:_ Mail #99 contains spoilers for _A Storm of Swords_, and mails following it may do so as well. So ... if you haven't gotten SoS, stay away from there.

Along with the updates to the SSM collection is the addition of an off-site search engine for the pages, provided by FreeFind. You can find the search box at the index to the Citadel or at the main index for the overall Westeros site (Westeros01a.html).

It's not the most complex search engine out there, but it's serviceable -- especially for the heraldry files. Longer things, like the SSM and the Concordance, it can help pinpoint an HTML file to go to but you'll have to use your brower's search capabilities to narrow it down from there. Maybe someday we'll figure out a better solution.

Finally, FreeFind also provides a site map listing of the site, if that's the sort of thing you like to use for navigation. It is, again, serviceable, and can be displayed in several different ways.

Enjoy.

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 9:16 AM
Ran can you give us a brief run-down again on what The Citadel will be about and how we can get involved and have fun?

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 9:22 AM
Well .. The Citadel is just our webpage for ASoIaF stuff. The Concordance, the So Spake Martin Collection, the Heraldry of the Seven Kingdoms, etc. are hosted there. :)

The MUSH will be named Blood of Dragons. It'll be set in the time period of Aemon the Dragonknight, roughly 140 years prior to the events in the books and about 50 years prior the events in "The Hedge Knight."

The game will start, we think, with the Submission of Sunspear after Daeron I the Young Dragon has conquered Dorne. The end ... well, who knows. :) If all goes well, we wouldn't mind going for about five years.

The game will open with just one place to start with -- King's Landing -- and from there we'll try to go as the population requires (though, admittedly, I don't think the North will ever be an option . . .)

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 9:25 AM
Can you explain to me the basics of a MUSH and how you play (if you have a sec) - I have never really played one before and am really curious.

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 9:25 AM
Oh, as to how to get involved ... well, just keep an eye out for news from us. Eventually we'll be at a point where we can open the BoD webpage and that'll help provide information.

Also, if you've never RPed on a MUSH before, it wouldn't hurt to try some games. Here's the webpages for two popular games, both fantasy and both book based -- ElendorMUSH is the best and pretty much the oldest of the active Tolkien-themed MUSHes, and Tales of Ta'veren is one of the largest and most active of the Jordan-themed MUSHes.

www.elendor.net

and

www.ta-veren.org

(You may find Tales easier to get in to, as it's much more newbie friendly. Even if you opt for Elendor, though, check out Tales's help pages for new players -- lots of important pointers there.)

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 11:07 AM
Is it different than role playing? I have been playing D&D since I was a kid and have done lots of plays and stuff...don't know if that is criteria that would count...I will check it out!

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 11:40 AM
It depends on what you call "roleplaying." :) Being involved in acting is about right -- you play the part of a character, interacting with others who do the same. Sort of a improvised, interactive writing.

On the other hand, if "roleplaying" means dungeon crawls and rolling dice for critical hits, then that's more what MUDs serve. :)

If you poke around those websites, you'll find pages where logs of roleplay are kept, and you can sort of read and see how it plays out. Although reading someone else's roleplay is a lot less fun than taking part in your own. :)

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 11:45 AM
yeah, by role-playing I mean actual role-playing, character development, first person, with just that character's knowledge and acting in accordance with that character's tendencies and desires and not your own.

Ok - I guess I understand that with the Citadel people will role-play different "citizens" of Westeros - but do they just sit in a chat room and talk in character or does someoene control the action or what happens, etc?

Also - again, I am just a total newbie at MUSH - but how come you set Blood of Dragons in a more "obscure" time and not in the time the series takes place?

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 12:05 PM
A MUSH isn't a 'chat room', as such. There's series of rooms, described as physical locations, which people move through. :) Players will, hopefully, develop their own ideas and give their characters motivations and goals to keep their RP interesting.

You'll find a lot of experienced players will develop TinyPlots (TPs) where they essentially create an idea for players to get involved in, with set goals and revelations and such. Some are very loose, some are very strict, and usually they're fun if all goes well. :)

Also, the administrators of the game (myself, my fiance� Linda, some friends and acquaintances, etc.) will be using the royal court and the events surrounding the reigns we intend to cover (Daeron I through Aegon IV) to create larger-scale things and just make some atmosphere. No one exists in a vacuum. :)

As to why an obscure period, it's less of a hassle. :) We don't want to slavishly mimic what GRRM writes, and we don't want the ghost of the Ice and Fire thing hanging over us. We've also found that you get really constrained by the expectations of players. 'Why can't I be Arya? It's not fair that Jaime lost this fight, he's the best swordsman in the books,' etc.

So ... we have an interesting time period picked out -- Dorne conquered by force for the first and last time and so on -- with fascinating characters hanging about -- the Young Dragon, the Dragonknight and Naerys, Aegon the Unworthy and his mistresses, Baelor the Blessed etc. -- and enough tidbits from the books to be able to make a good game of it.

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 12:08 PM
Ok - that sounds pretty cool..will most people play these characters or their own "nobody" characters that they turn into memorable characters? Is there going to be a brief history of the time period and what the "common-man" knows...cause I will admit my brain is lacking when it comes to that period.

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 12:16 PM
Oh, we'll have plenty of historical information provided. Part of the reason we created the Concordance was to help give people a resource to freshen their memory on all sorts of thematic details -- history both ancient and Targaryen-period, clothing, geography, religion, songs and legends and beliefs, etc.

As to who folk play ... we don't intend to have "feature" characters. That is, characters who are actually named in the books -- like all the folk I just mentioned. They'll be largely controlled by the administrators -- no doubt the kings will appear regularly at court, and the like -- for the purpose of pushing forward plots.

But no-name characters ... in fact, we're aiming at having ltos of intrigue and politics, so we actually want folk to be members of noble houses (which, of course, is part of the reason we did the heraldry ;). We're restricting the Great Houses -- House Stark, for instance, probably won't be appearing in the first year of the game -- but there's plenty of other houses that players will be able to make characters from.

And then you make your own name, whether it's as a tourney champion, an outlaw, a player of the game of thrones, a beloved septon, a famous maester, etc. :)

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 12:25 PM
Can I be a Faceless Man? ehehehheheh
How do you work out if one character tries or does kill another??

Can we be from the eastern free cities,etc?

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 12:48 PM
Never know when a Faceless Man might appear -- though if one does, it'll be temporary as part of a larger plot. ;)

We're not certain how we'll handle folk who want to have a character from the Free Cities or some other non-Westerosi land. I believe our current thought is that we'll allow it as a secondary character (you can have more than one character on the game) for experienced players, after they've RPed with a Westerosi character for awhile and shown their ability to handle making their own RP. :)

As to how folk deal with trying to kill another, we're hoping for a combat system which will essentially be of the sort you usually see on these sorts of games (ElendorMUSH's system is the best example we know of.) Essentially, you can use the system to attack one another, and combat will end when you're knocked to "0" -- which doesn't mean instant death, but incapacitation.

Admittedly, people will not die "unexpectedly". We're not doing real life, we're doing interactive writing and story-making, and there's give-and-take. You decide you're going to try and assassinate the king's Hand, for instance, and you'll know that if you're caught you're going to be executed.

On the other hand, if you decide you're going to try and mug an ugly, old sellsword, and then find out that they're really a Kingsguard in disguise and one of the deadliest warriors of the Seven Kingdoms, you should not expect death as the penalty. You might be imprisoned, but something can always be worked out.

In other words, we want people to enjoy themselves, and not run around in fear of taking interesting actions because they like their characters and don't want to lose them.

It's difficult to explain in a nutshell, but we're working hard to describe how our consent policy will work. :) While some people thrive on full "realism" and want to be able to have absolutely no constraints on how they decide their character will react, it's sort of like putting a bully in a sandbox, and that'll sour the game for the majority.

Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 4:36 PM Well, we're ready to open up, really. We haven't got everything we would like, but we've some nice things that folk might enjoy. Including, as I remember, "Ran's notes . . ." ;) Point your browsers to www.westeros.org and click on the Citadel links, or go directly there by trying www.westeros.org/Citadel/index.html
Markus User ID: 8820133	Aug 11th 8:00 PM Btw, your site is down again, Ran. And, for some reason, my browser fails to show the both SoIaF graphics on the message board. They are invisible.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 11th 8:11 PM The site isn't down, as such. Many folk in the U.S. are getting there. The server has moved a couple of times in the last days, however, as our site provider has moved. This leads to the DNS changing and to a subsequent need for propagation. For us in Europe, that means a propagation delay of a day or two, unfortunately. As to the graphics, same thing: they're kept on Westeros.org, so if you're not getting one, you're not getting the other.
Ghost User ID: 1934244	Aug 14th 4:39 AM Impressive stuf. That Concordance (btw, what does that mean?) must have taken ages to build. Great site! Keep up the good work!
Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 14th 7:27 AM It's actually a little mis-used -- a concordance is an alphabetical listing of words or phrases used by an author in a text. We used it because: a) It sounds cool and b) It makes its purpose plain to those people who know about the Wheel of Time Concordance done by Rhonda Peters. :)
Ghost User ID: 9704903	Aug 15th 7:47 AM As far as I'm concerned, you're forgiven for the mis-use of the word. Whatever it's called, it's great that it's there.
Lannister User ID: 0136334	Aug 15th 9:05 AM Hey, Ran, how's that ASoIaF Mush coming along? Sounds fun and I'm looking forward to it.
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 9:12 AM Lannister, It's going. We're plinking away at it regularly and trying to sort out various issues. We're now hoping for perhaps a winter opening. It's a bigger project then we imagined. :) I suppose I should ask if we've got anyone experienced with the C language (not C++) and using it for the hardcoding of Tiny-based MU* servers? If so, and if you're interested in helping out, drop us a mail at [email protected] :) And in other news ... So Spake Martin finally updated. _NOTE:_ Mail #99 contains spoilers for _A Storm of Swords_, and mails following it may do so as well. So ... if you haven't gotten SoS, stay away from there. Along with the updates to the SSM collection is the addition of an off-site search engine for the pages, provided by FreeFind. You can find the search box at the index to the Citadel or at the main index for the overall Westeros site (Westeros01a.html). It's not the most complex search engine out there, but it's serviceable -- especially for the heraldry files. Longer things, like the SSM and the Concordance, it can help pinpoint an HTML file to go to but you'll have to use your brower's search capabilities to narrow it down from there. Maybe someday we'll figure out a better solution. Finally, FreeFind also provides a site map listing of the site, if that's the sort of thing you like to use for navigation. It is, again, serviceable, and can be displayed in several different ways. Enjoy.
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 9:16 AM Ran can you give us a brief run-down again on what The Citadel will be about and how we can get involved and have fun?
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 9:22 AM Well .. The Citadel is just our webpage for ASoIaF stuff. The Concordance, the So Spake Martin Collection, the Heraldry of the Seven Kingdoms, etc. are hosted there. :) The MUSH will be named Blood of Dragons. It'll be set in the time period of Aemon the Dragonknight, roughly 140 years prior to the events in the books and about 50 years prior the events in "The Hedge Knight." The game will start, we think, with the Submission of Sunspear after Daeron I the Young Dragon has conquered Dorne. The end ... well, who knows. :) If all goes well, we wouldn't mind going for about five years. The game will open with just one place to start with -- King's Landing -- and from there we'll try to go as the population requires (though, admittedly, I don't think the North will ever be an option . . .)
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 9:25 AM Can you explain to me the basics of a MUSH and how you play (if you have a sec) - I have never really played one before and am really curious.
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 9:25 AM Oh, as to how to get involved ... well, just keep an eye out for news from us. Eventually we'll be at a point where we can open the BoD webpage and that'll help provide information. Also, if you've never RPed on a MUSH before, it wouldn't hurt to try some games. Here's the webpages for two popular games, both fantasy and both book based -- ElendorMUSH is the best and pretty much the oldest of the active Tolkien-themed MUSHes, and Tales of Ta'veren is one of the largest and most active of the Jordan-themed MUSHes. www.elendor.net and www.ta-veren.org (You may find Tales easier to get in to, as it's much more newbie friendly. Even if you opt for Elendor, though, check out Tales's help pages for new players -- lots of important pointers there.)
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 11:07 AM Is it different than role playing? I have been playing D&D since I was a kid and have done lots of plays and stuff...don't know if that is criteria that would count...I will check it out!
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 11:40 AM It depends on what you call "roleplaying." :) Being involved in acting is about right -- you play the part of a character, interacting with others who do the same. Sort of a improvised, interactive writing. On the other hand, if "roleplaying" means dungeon crawls and rolling dice for critical hits, then that's more what MUDs serve. :) If you poke around those websites, you'll find pages where logs of roleplay are kept, and you can sort of read and see how it plays out. Although reading someone else's roleplay is a lot less fun than taking part in your own. :)
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 11:45 AM yeah, by role-playing I mean actual role-playing, character development, first person, with just that character's knowledge and acting in accordance with that character's tendencies and desires and not your own. Ok - I guess I understand that with the Citadel people will role-play different "citizens" of Westeros - but do they just sit in a chat room and talk in character or does someoene control the action or what happens, etc? Also - again, I am just a total newbie at MUSH - but how come you set Blood of Dragons in a more "obscure" time and not in the time the series takes place?
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 12:05 PM A MUSH isn't a 'chat room', as such. There's series of rooms, described as physical locations, which people move through. :) Players will, hopefully, develop their own ideas and give their characters motivations and goals to keep their RP interesting. You'll find a lot of experienced players will develop TinyPlots (TPs) where they essentially create an idea for players to get involved in, with set goals and revelations and such. Some are very loose, some are very strict, and usually they're fun if all goes well. :) Also, the administrators of the game (myself, my fiance� Linda, some friends and acquaintances, etc.) will be using the royal court and the events surrounding the reigns we intend to cover (Daeron I through Aegon IV) to create larger-scale things and just make some atmosphere. No one exists in a vacuum. :) As to why an obscure period, it's less of a hassle. :) We don't want to slavishly mimic what GRRM writes, and we don't want the ghost of the Ice and Fire thing hanging over us. We've also found that you get really constrained by the expectations of players. 'Why can't I be Arya? It's not fair that Jaime lost this fight, he's the best swordsman in the books,' etc. So ... we have an interesting time period picked out -- Dorne conquered by force for the first and last time and so on -- with fascinating characters hanging about -- the Young Dragon, the Dragonknight and Naerys, Aegon the Unworthy and his mistresses, Baelor the Blessed etc. -- and enough tidbits from the books to be able to make a good game of it.
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 12:08 PM Ok - that sounds pretty cool..will most people play these characters or their own "nobody" characters that they turn into memorable characters? Is there going to be a brief history of the time period and what the "common-man" knows...cause I will admit my brain is lacking when it comes to that period.
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 12:16 PM Oh, we'll have plenty of historical information provided. Part of the reason we created the Concordance was to help give people a resource to freshen their memory on all sorts of thematic details -- history both ancient and Targaryen-period, clothing, geography, religion, songs and legends and beliefs, etc. As to who folk play ... we don't intend to have "feature" characters. That is, characters who are actually named in the books -- like all the folk I just mentioned. They'll be largely controlled by the administrators -- no doubt the kings will appear regularly at court, and the like -- for the purpose of pushing forward plots. But no-name characters ... in fact, we're aiming at having ltos of intrigue and politics, so we actually want folk to be members of noble houses (which, of course, is part of the reason we did the heraldry ;). We're restricting the Great Houses -- House Stark, for instance, probably won't be appearing in the first year of the game -- but there's plenty of other houses that players will be able to make characters from. And then you make your own name, whether it's as a tourney champion, an outlaw, a player of the game of thrones, a beloved septon, a famous maester, etc. :)
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 12:25 PM Can I be a Faceless Man? ehehehheheh How do you work out if one character tries or does kill another?? Can we be from the eastern free cities,etc?
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 12:48 PM Never know when a Faceless Man might appear -- though if one does, it'll be temporary as part of a larger plot. ;) We're not certain how we'll handle folk who want to have a character from the Free Cities or some other non-Westerosi land. I believe our current thought is that we'll allow it as a secondary character (you can have more than one character on the game) for experienced players, after they've RPed with a Westerosi character for awhile and shown their ability to handle making their own RP. :) As to how folk deal with trying to kill another, we're hoping for a combat system which will essentially be of the sort you usually see on these sorts of games (ElendorMUSH's system is the best example we know of.) Essentially, you can use the system to attack one another, and combat will end when you're knocked to "0" -- which doesn't mean instant death, but incapacitation. Admittedly, people will not die "unexpectedly". We're not doing real life, we're doing interactive writing and story-making, and there's give-and-take. You decide you're going to try and assassinate the king's Hand, for instance, and you'll know that if you're caught you're going to be executed. On the other hand, if you decide you're going to try and mug an ugly, old sellsword, and then find out that they're really a Kingsguard in disguise and one of the deadliest warriors of the Seven Kingdoms, you should not expect death as the penalty. You might be imprisoned, but something can always be worked out. In other words, we want people to enjoy themselves, and not run around in fear of taking interesting actions because they like their characters and don't want to lose them. It's difficult to explain in a nutshell, but we're working hard to describe how our consent policy will work. :) While some people thrive on full "realism" and want to be able to have absolutely no constraints on how they decide their character will react, it's sort of like putting a bully in a sandbox, and that'll sour the game for the majority.