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A Song of Ice and Fire / Announcements / The Citadel

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Ran
User ID: 0867924 Aug 10th 4:36 PM
Well, we're ready to open up, really. We haven't got everything we would like, but we've some nice things that folk might enjoy. Including, as I remember, "Ran's notes . . ." ;)

Point your browsers to www.westeros.org and click on the Citadel links, or go directly there by trying www.westeros.org/Citadel/index.html

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 12:48 PM
Never know when a Faceless Man might appear -- though if one does, it'll be temporary as part of a larger plot. ;)

We're not certain how we'll handle folk who want to have a character from the Free Cities or some other non-Westerosi land. I believe our current thought is that we'll allow it as a secondary character (you can have more than one character on the game) for experienced players, after they've RPed with a Westerosi character for awhile and shown their ability to handle making their own RP. :)

As to how folk deal with trying to kill another, we're hoping for a combat system which will essentially be of the sort you usually see on these sorts of games (ElendorMUSH's system is the best example we know of.) Essentially, you can use the system to attack one another, and combat will end when you're knocked to "0" -- which doesn't mean instant death, but incapacitation.

Admittedly, people will not die "unexpectedly". We're not doing real life, we're doing interactive writing and story-making, and there's give-and-take. You decide you're going to try and assassinate the king's Hand, for instance, and you'll know that if you're caught you're going to be executed.

On the other hand, if you decide you're going to try and mug an ugly, old sellsword, and then find out that they're really a Kingsguard in disguise and one of the deadliest warriors of the Seven Kingdoms, you should not expect death as the penalty. You might be imprisoned, but something can always be worked out.

In other words, we want people to enjoy themselves, and not run around in fear of taking interesting actions because they like their characters and don't want to lose them.

It's difficult to explain in a nutshell, but we're working hard to describe how our consent policy will work. :) While some people thrive on full "realism" and want to be able to have absolutely no constraints on how they decide their character will react, it's sort of like putting a bully in a sandbox, and that'll sour the game for the majority.

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 12:51 PM
Will the game me as gritty and as sexual as the books? Can it be?

That all makes sense...this sounds like it will be fun...Can I own a tavern in one of the cities? I want to be a tavern owner - a bartender as well...would that be possible?
sorry for asking so many damn questions.

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 1:00 PM
Questions are good. :)

The game will be as gritty as the books. We won't hamper language or violence at all, because foul language and gruesome violence are part of the world. I won't be surprised to see characters hving limbs lopped off, spouting blood, or bowels spilling out bellies . . .

Sexuality is a little different. What you do in a private room with consenting adults is entirely up to you. Have an orgy, if you want. But in public spaces, the most you'll get is the sort of behavior one sees at Renly's feast or at Chataya's common room (i.e., a bit of risque behavior, unlaced bodices, etc.) But private ... whatever.

We'll have policies up to better explain these details. :) But we more or less want to keep the feel of the game as close as possible to that of the books, without upsetting players (it's one thing to read about a Dothraki wedding and its ... err, festivities; quite another to watch players actually _play_ it . . .) and without ruining the goal of the game.

As to tavern owner, could be. :) We intend to have at least two or three taverns and inns in King's Landing, though we'll settle who runs them by some sort of application I think.

We'll also have potshops (and who knows what's in those bowls o' brown . . .), a brothel or two (_no_ PC prostitutes -- it's set dressing, mainly aimed to allow folk the sort of intriguing you see in GoT), markets . . . and who knows what else.

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 1:45 PM
Ooooooooh...put me down for a tavern...I have spent a few years designing a few taverns of my own in a "fantasy" setting and would love to fit something into the "game" that keeps with the flavor of the game. I would really like to do something like that!

As the "goal" of the game..what is it exactly?

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 1:50 PM
Have fun. :)

There is no giant epic quest that PCs will contribute to achieving, or anything like that. What there will be -- hopefully -- is 5 RL (Real Life) years (which translates to 15 IC -- In Character -- years on the game, or maybe 10 IC years, since we're not sure on the time ratio quite yet) of roleplay and events. :)

If we last the whole five years, we'll be sure to wrap with something special. :)

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 1:53 PM
Wow...that sounds pretty amazing...how many people do you think will be involved in playing? How many hours a week would a successful musher needs to be on IC?

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 1:59 PM
Oh, well... that's hard to measure. You yourself define what "successful" MUSHer means to you. :) Do you just want to have occasional fun? Or do you want to be a major player? If the former, whatever time you wish will make your enjoyment of the game a success, and if the latter, well ... harder to quantify. Regular activity helps. :)

As to how many players, that remains to be seen, really. :) It depends on how much word of mouth there is, how good a job we do making the game appealing, how large a fanbase there is, and other factors. How big can a game get? Well ... ElendorMUSH, which is old and established, can get over 100 players logged in at peak time.

Smaller games manage 40, 50, 60, etc. players at peak. And new games ... it varies. If we have 10 regular players to start with, we'll be happy. :) That's enough of a foundation to build on.

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 2:05 PM
How can you have any secrets or politics with only a few regulars on? Won't it feel like stepping on each other's toes?

How do people move from one area of Westeros to another? Can people be all over the place, or is the MUSH focussed like just in KL?

Ran - can we do a focus on this MUSH for the Philcon...maybe work it in somehow, or at least get the word out?

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 2:09 PM
As they say: three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead. ;)

There's no way to estimate how many players we get, in any case. :) But 10 players can have quite a lot of enjoyment in a game, if they roleplay actively and imaginatively. :)

As I said earlier, we're starting just with KL and the nearby environs (Stokeworth, maybe Rosby as well). We don't want the MUSH population spread out all over Westeros (which is, after all, about the size of South America.)

But as the population grows -- and it _will_ grow if the game is good -- we'll expand. Storm's End will be the first place opened up -- the Dornish Marches will provide fun, and maybe we'll have some outlaw bands in the Kingswood. After that, probably the Riverlands. And from there, who knows. We haven't made too many plans in advanced. :)

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 23rd 2:11 PM
Sounds great - count me in as a regular...I have been looking for something like this for a while..

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 3:17 PM
Oh, yeah, skipped a point. Focus group or whatever for Philcon . . . I seriously doubt I will be there. :) Wrong continent for me right now.

Lannister
User ID: 0136334 Aug 23rd 4:26 PM
I'm with you Lodengarl. I would love to be a regular. This MUSH sounds like tons 'o fun. 'specially with writers like us!

I wonder if I might be a Lannister, perhaps?

A descendent of Lann the Clever, that's just too cool. :)

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 23rd 4:36 PM
Heh, the Lannisters are a popular one...

We've got one definite for the time being (one of our fellow administrators), and we're leary of opening many more given that the westerlands aren't one the areas queued up for an early opening. We've still gotta sort out how it'll all work

Brady
User ID: 0721754 Aug 23rd 9:55 PM
Count me in too, Id love to be in it. But um...what exactly is a MUSH? Is it like a MUD?

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 24th 4:36 AM
Sort of and sort of not. MUSHes and MUDs share the same ancestry, but they diverged years ago. MUDs are much more "coded" in the sense that you run around getting experience points and gold so you can become a better fighter/wizard/thief/cleric/etc. and so you can kill bigger and badder mobiles (mobs).

A MUSH has a tiny drop of the "improvement" model -- if the game has a combat system and a character generation system that is, and perhaps an experience system. But it's not the typical run of things.

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 24th 11:08 AM
BTW, a couple more e-mails added to the SSM collection, forwarded by Markus and KAH. Interesting stuff. :)

And a reminder, that the Citadel now has a search engine available for folk to use, and a site map with it. It's at the bottom of the Citadel's index page, and it's also accessible from the Westeros news page. :)

Lannister
User ID: 0770504 Aug 24th 11:12 AM
OK, I have a more interesting idea then, Ran. I don't remember the two family lines the Lannister's wiped out for betraying them (plus I have no idea when it occored). But I could be from one of those houses. House Royne was it? Or failing that I could be a Westerling of the Crag, back when they weren't so insignificant.

Ran
User ID: 0743024 Aug 24th 11:20 AM
House Reyne and House Tarbeck. I was wondering when someone wondered about them ... Tarbeck of Tarbeck Hall has particularly cool arms, though Reyne's nifty too (check the Heraldry page at the Citadel :)

Lodengarl
User ID: 0798784 Aug 24th 12:07 PM
Ran - when are you going to decide what players we can be, and if we can have any other role? You said you have a bunch of admins for it that will play "bigger" roles...if I wanted to be a tavern owner character - would I just be like every other character or would I be able to provide more imput? Just curious how those things work.

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

Ran User ID: 0867924	Aug 10th 4:36 PM Well, we're ready to open up, really. We haven't got everything we would like, but we've some nice things that folk might enjoy. Including, as I remember, "Ran's notes . . ." ;) Point your browsers to www.westeros.org and click on the Citadel links, or go directly there by trying www.westeros.org/Citadel/index.html
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 12:48 PM Never know when a Faceless Man might appear -- though if one does, it'll be temporary as part of a larger plot. ;) We're not certain how we'll handle folk who want to have a character from the Free Cities or some other non-Westerosi land. I believe our current thought is that we'll allow it as a secondary character (you can have more than one character on the game) for experienced players, after they've RPed with a Westerosi character for awhile and shown their ability to handle making their own RP. :) As to how folk deal with trying to kill another, we're hoping for a combat system which will essentially be of the sort you usually see on these sorts of games (ElendorMUSH's system is the best example we know of.) Essentially, you can use the system to attack one another, and combat will end when you're knocked to "0" -- which doesn't mean instant death, but incapacitation. Admittedly, people will not die "unexpectedly". We're not doing real life, we're doing interactive writing and story-making, and there's give-and-take. You decide you're going to try and assassinate the king's Hand, for instance, and you'll know that if you're caught you're going to be executed. On the other hand, if you decide you're going to try and mug an ugly, old sellsword, and then find out that they're really a Kingsguard in disguise and one of the deadliest warriors of the Seven Kingdoms, you should not expect death as the penalty. You might be imprisoned, but something can always be worked out. In other words, we want people to enjoy themselves, and not run around in fear of taking interesting actions because they like their characters and don't want to lose them. It's difficult to explain in a nutshell, but we're working hard to describe how our consent policy will work. :) While some people thrive on full "realism" and want to be able to have absolutely no constraints on how they decide their character will react, it's sort of like putting a bully in a sandbox, and that'll sour the game for the majority.
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 12:51 PM Will the game me as gritty and as sexual as the books? Can it be? That all makes sense...this sounds like it will be fun...Can I own a tavern in one of the cities? I want to be a tavern owner - a bartender as well...would that be possible? sorry for asking so many damn questions.
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 1:00 PM Questions are good. :) The game will be as gritty as the books. We won't hamper language or violence at all, because foul language and gruesome violence are part of the world. I won't be surprised to see characters hving limbs lopped off, spouting blood, or bowels spilling out bellies . . . Sexuality is a little different. What you do in a private room with consenting adults is entirely up to you. Have an orgy, if you want. But in public spaces, the most you'll get is the sort of behavior one sees at Renly's feast or at Chataya's common room (i.e., a bit of risque behavior, unlaced bodices, etc.) But private ... whatever. We'll have policies up to better explain these details. :) But we more or less want to keep the feel of the game as close as possible to that of the books, without upsetting players (it's one thing to read about a Dothraki wedding and its ... err, festivities; quite another to watch players actually _play_ it . . .) and without ruining the goal of the game. As to tavern owner, could be. :) We intend to have at least two or three taverns and inns in King's Landing, though we'll settle who runs them by some sort of application I think. We'll also have potshops (and who knows what's in those bowls o' brown . . .), a brothel or two (_no_ PC prostitutes -- it's set dressing, mainly aimed to allow folk the sort of intriguing you see in GoT), markets . . . and who knows what else.
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 1:45 PM Ooooooooh...put me down for a tavern...I have spent a few years designing a few taverns of my own in a "fantasy" setting and would love to fit something into the "game" that keeps with the flavor of the game. I would really like to do something like that! As the "goal" of the game..what is it exactly?
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 1:50 PM Have fun. :) There is no giant epic quest that PCs will contribute to achieving, or anything like that. What there will be -- hopefully -- is 5 RL (Real Life) years (which translates to 15 IC -- In Character -- years on the game, or maybe 10 IC years, since we're not sure on the time ratio quite yet) of roleplay and events. :) If we last the whole five years, we'll be sure to wrap with something special. :)
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 1:53 PM Wow...that sounds pretty amazing...how many people do you think will be involved in playing? How many hours a week would a successful musher needs to be on IC?
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 1:59 PM Oh, well... that's hard to measure. You yourself define what "successful" MUSHer means to you. :) Do you just want to have occasional fun? Or do you want to be a major player? If the former, whatever time you wish will make your enjoyment of the game a success, and if the latter, well ... harder to quantify. Regular activity helps. :) As to how many players, that remains to be seen, really. :) It depends on how much word of mouth there is, how good a job we do making the game appealing, how large a fanbase there is, and other factors. How big can a game get? Well ... ElendorMUSH, which is old and established, can get over 100 players logged in at peak time. Smaller games manage 40, 50, 60, etc. players at peak. And new games ... it varies. If we have 10 regular players to start with, we'll be happy. :) That's enough of a foundation to build on.
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 2:05 PM How can you have any secrets or politics with only a few regulars on? Won't it feel like stepping on each other's toes? How do people move from one area of Westeros to another? Can people be all over the place, or is the MUSH focussed like just in KL? Ran - can we do a focus on this MUSH for the Philcon...maybe work it in somehow, or at least get the word out?
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 2:09 PM As they say: three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead. ;) There's no way to estimate how many players we get, in any case. :) But 10 players can have quite a lot of enjoyment in a game, if they roleplay actively and imaginatively. :) As I said earlier, we're starting just with KL and the nearby environs (Stokeworth, maybe Rosby as well). We don't want the MUSH population spread out all over Westeros (which is, after all, about the size of South America.) But as the population grows -- and it _will_ grow if the game is good -- we'll expand. Storm's End will be the first place opened up -- the Dornish Marches will provide fun, and maybe we'll have some outlaw bands in the Kingswood. After that, probably the Riverlands. And from there, who knows. We haven't made too many plans in advanced. :)
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 23rd 2:11 PM Sounds great - count me in as a regular...I have been looking for something like this for a while..
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 3:17 PM Oh, yeah, skipped a point. Focus group or whatever for Philcon . . . I seriously doubt I will be there. :) Wrong continent for me right now.
Lannister User ID: 0136334	Aug 23rd 4:26 PM I'm with you Lodengarl. I would love to be a regular. This MUSH sounds like tons 'o fun. 'specially with writers like us! I wonder if I might be a Lannister, perhaps? A descendent of Lann the Clever, that's just too cool. :)
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 23rd 4:36 PM Heh, the Lannisters are a popular one... We've got one definite for the time being (one of our fellow administrators), and we're leary of opening many more given that the westerlands aren't one the areas queued up for an early opening. We've still gotta sort out how it'll all work
Brady User ID: 0721754	Aug 23rd 9:55 PM Count me in too, Id love to be in it. But um...what exactly is a MUSH? Is it like a MUD?
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 24th 4:36 AM Sort of and sort of not. MUSHes and MUDs share the same ancestry, but they diverged years ago. MUDs are much more "coded" in the sense that you run around getting experience points and gold so you can become a better fighter/wizard/thief/cleric/etc. and so you can kill bigger and badder mobiles (mobs). A MUSH has a tiny drop of the "improvement" model -- if the game has a combat system and a character generation system that is, and perhaps an experience system. But it's not the typical run of things.
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 24th 11:08 AM BTW, a couple more e-mails added to the SSM collection, forwarded by Markus and KAH. Interesting stuff. :) And a reminder, that the Citadel now has a search engine available for folk to use, and a site map with it. It's at the bottom of the Citadel's index page, and it's also accessible from the Westeros news page. :)
Lannister User ID: 0770504	Aug 24th 11:12 AM OK, I have a more interesting idea then, Ran. I don't remember the two family lines the Lannister's wiped out for betraying them (plus I have no idea when it occored). But I could be from one of those houses. House Royne was it? Or failing that I could be a Westerling of the Crag, back when they weren't so insignificant.
Ran User ID: 0743024	Aug 24th 11:20 AM House Reyne and House Tarbeck. I was wondering when someone wondered about them ... Tarbeck of Tarbeck Hall has particularly cool arms, though Reyne's nifty too (check the Heraldry page at the Citadel :)
Lodengarl User ID: 0798784	Aug 24th 12:07 PM Ran - when are you going to decide what players we can be, and if we can have any other role? You said you have a bunch of admins for it that will play "bigger" roles...if I wanted to be a tavern owner character - would I just be like every other character or would I be able to provide more imput? Just curious how those things work.