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A Song of Ice and Fire / Other Topics / Orson Scott Card

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Omer
User ID: 0485244 Oct 3rd 4:26 PM
Wanna talk about Card? Ender, colombus, and Alvin Maker? the creater of some of the best fantasy and science fiction out there, as well as some of the worst? a man with extreamly high IQ, and extreamly stupid Mormonesque worldviews?

Kevin
User ID: 1766884 Oct 7th 4:38 PM
Omer, I guess I lost the thread of the conversation. I thought you were saying that you disliked Card because of a few lines. I had forgotten that you had received an email from him where he expressed his views to you personally. OK by me if you disagree with his viewpoint.

KAH, the point that I was trying to make is that I'm very tired of the politically correct thing. It is right and good to be sensitive to other people's feelings. I'm just fed up with people who pick apart everything they see/hear to try to find something that offends them. It makes conversation nearly impossible when you have to make sure every word isn't going to offend some group or another.

When people discount an entire piece of art because of a line or two they are being narrow minded. Whether its Aladin (Disney), Ellison, Huck Finn, or Ender's Game it doesn't matter.

Omer, I reread your posts and apologize for jumping to conclusions about your stance on Ender's Game.

I understand that certain groups are justified in being sensitive. I just wish that they would look past a phrasing to the bigger picture of the work.

Before I step down from my soap box I have further item. We say that we want honest polititians yet we crucify them if they express an honest opinion. I don't agree with Ventura's statements but I respect the man for expressing them. I would rather have someone who I somewhat disagree with in office but is honest than someone who I think I agree with but is lying through their teeth.

<stepping down> commence shredding...

LindaElane
User ID: 7733333 Oct 8th 0:21 AM
Here is a post from an Israeli who is on the OSC mailing list. It appears that he is not universally perceived as Anti-Semetic, while of course, everyone has a right to his/her own opinion:

"Just wanted to tell you, Pastwatch just won the Geffen award.
The Geffen award is a prize, given to books that were translated to
Hebrew. The Israelli assosiation of sci-fi and fantasy, started this
tradition, this year, and Pastwatch is the first to win it. The winner is
decided by the vote of the participants of ICon, the Israelli sci-fi
convention."

Omer
User ID: 0485244 Oct 8th 12:03 PM
Kevin - I don't think I'm over sensitive. It's just that I found this particular scene, in hundred of books which had thousands of jewish characters... and I think this is the only book I've felt uncomfortable about( I think)...

it seems to represent streotypes about Judaism, that's all. I nonetheless think Ender's Game is one of the best books I've ever read.

As for his overall opinions, Pastwatch made a point, and in his email he defended that point, and I find his political ideas rather distatsteful. But I still think he's a very interesting person and a hell of a writer.

Although - after reading the short story in Far horizon - I doubted that for a while

Transmetallix Dec 30th 6:58 PM
This thread seems to be old but i'll post anyways. I was talking to this guy at the Barnes and Noble today about Ender's Game and he that they were making a movie out of it. This is something that I would love to see. I stopped reading the series after Speaker for the Dead, when it slowed down too much for my taste, but Ender's Game is still one of my all time faves and I'd love to see the movie.

Ran
User ID: 0867924 Dec 30th 7:29 PM
Orson Scott Card has been working on the screenplay for quite awhile. The book is almost constantly optioned. On the other hand, I'm uncertain if it's moved past pre-production or has been green lighted by some studio to be actually made.

The best place to look would be Orson Scott Card's own website, I think, or perhaps Ain't It Cool News.

LindaElane
User ID: 0276214 Jan 3rd 11:47 PM
The movie script was rewritten by Card when Jake Lloyd contacted him and said he wanted to play Ender. Card is very excited about having Jake do this. I quite disagree, as do quite a few others. I have lost interest in the movie at this point, and in fact would not see it if Jake Lloyd was Ender. Card says his producers could overrule him on this choice, but somehow it seems to me unlikely that they would, and barring their overruling him, or some sort of disaster, it looks like it will be Jake Lloyd. Though nothing has been signed, Card will not even condsider trying to get Haley Joel Osment. Says he is too small for the part, that it would be laughable to think of other kids following him into battle since he looks so sensitive. (the small and sensitive adjectives are not exact quotes of what he said when I saw him in person, but they are a pretty good approximation.) Card seems to have forgotten that the book says that Ender was small for his age, however. In fact, HJO looks almost exactly as I had pictured Ender.

Obviously a problem with the film is that Ender goes from 6 to 12 in the book. I think they are going to try to shoot for 8 to 11 or so in the movie. Ah well, as I say, I don't think I will be seeing it.

I started a little compaign to have people write to Card at his internet site www.fresnopix.com and ask him to reconsider the use of Jake Lloyd. I think it upset him a bit. He did not know I was the person who encouraged others to write, however, and I am not sure how many letters he got. I simply sent email to all the people at amazon.com who loved Ender's Game and gave their email address. Ah well. OSC's mind could not be changed. Gotta hand it to him though, it may be an honor thing, as he may feel he verbally promised it to Lloyd.

LindaElane
User ID: 0276214 Jan 3rd 11:49 PM
PS Actually I just encouraged people to write in with their opinion on J Lloyd. I know of one person who wrote in that he woudl be great for the part, in fact. (My humble opinion on that is "Why don't they just hire JarJar Binks?" Ah well.)

Omer
User ID: 9739563 Jan 7th 3:48 AM
Personnaly, I would love to see an Ender's Game movie... regardless of hte actor.

What do you think, though? will the movie overshADOW THE BOOK (like in the case of Blade Runner, or clockwork orange) or be less influential, like DUNE?

Green Gerg
User ID: 7830843 Jan 7th 11:06 AM
One last thing on the OSC/Judaism question:
Omer, did you read last year's ENCHANTMENT?
The main character/hero of the book was Jewish, as was much of the flavor of the book, and I thought it evinced a lot of affection and interest on Card's part for Jewish culture. No?

LindaElane
User ID: 0276214 Jan 7th 7:36 PM
I think that an Ender's Game movie would be very overshadowed by the book. I think the movie is unlikely to work. It would require silly sounding voice overs to understand how Ender is learning in the battle room. Otherwise, we would just see a lot of floating little boys firing at each other. (Or else we would see things so obvious that we could not believe only the genius Ender could figure them out.) Seems like a fairly boring sight if you do not know what is in the character's minds. Also, there are not excellent special effects to make quick movements in no gravity look good. So, the effects are likely to look lame. I am not saying certain to, but I think it likely.

I sort of feel bad for OSC. He is so excited about this being made into a movie. He is so very strong minded about it. In fact, he is hoping they will agree to film Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow at the same time. However, many people know that for years he insisted that the secret, surprise ending - I won't say what it was - should be revealed at the beginning since it would not work onscreen. He reversed himself on that when he thought it possible to get a good actor for Ender.

Omer
User ID: 9014973 Jan 9th 3:50 AM
Green Greg - I never said OSC's not interested or against Judaism. I said two things: 1. That I felt bad about the jewish remarks in Ender's Game, and 2. That is PASTWATCH, Orson Scott Card promotes the view that chrisitanity is (possibly one of ) the superior religion.

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Mar 30th 2:47 PM
I recently read Homebody, OSC's Horror novel. It is quite cute. I really enjoy Card's writing style, which is allways very relaxed and readable. He's really an author who writes stuff that's easy to read. Homebody was fairly good, but it had 2 main problems - 1. The beginning was way too long, and had little to do with the rest of the book( but after 200 pages, it really starts rolling) and 2. I was able to forsee almost every twist in the story, barring one or two.
Still, its nice, and Orson Scott Card is really a nice person, so I ordered Maps in a Mirror, his short story collection, and I hope to get it before I'm flying to the US in April 8.

Jeff
User ID: 1536664 Mar 30th 2:52 PM
I really like Card's stories, in general. My only complain is that he sometimes seems to push a series into additional volumes that aren't as strong as the original. The first three books of the Alvin Maker series were great. A very gentle, but compelling, view of magic and fantasy. Ender's Game was fantastic, but I thought the follow-ons were far too wordy. Overall, though, I really like his work.

Omer
User ID: 9551723 Mar 31st 2:05 PM
I think he writes too much. It seems like every day there's a new book out by this guy. Enchantment and then Ender's Shadow and now Sara. Like, hey, dude, slow down a little :-)

Lanfir
User ID: 9106183 May 18th 11:37 AM
Anyone read the first five chapters of "The hegemon" yet? It deals with Bean and Achilles and Peter, and the first five chapters were surely promising!

Omer
User ID: 9014973 May 18th 11:57 AM
I wanna wait for the book... it'll kill me to read the first five chapters and than have to wait about half a year...

Nenz
User ID: 9182423 May 18th 3:30 PM
Where can you read these chapters. I'd really like to know.

LindaElane
User ID: 0276214 May 18th 4:12 PM
www.hatrack.com

Gregg
User ID: 8214233 Jun 1st 9:54 PM
Hee hee. I posted over at the Ender's game forum and got a call from LDS missionaries the next morning, less than 6 hours later.

Oh yeah, they found me at an unlisted number in my roommate's name. Very impressive use of technology.

If I had ~$50k to waste on legal fees, it'd be fun to sue them for profit for privacy violation. :)

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages Newest Messages

Omer User ID: 0485244	Oct 3rd 4:26 PM Wanna talk about Card? Ender, colombus, and Alvin Maker? the creater of some of the best fantasy and science fiction out there, as well as some of the worst? a man with extreamly high IQ, and extreamly stupid Mormonesque worldviews?
Kevin User ID: 1766884	Oct 7th 4:38 PM Omer, I guess I lost the thread of the conversation. I thought you were saying that you disliked Card because of a few lines. I had forgotten that you had received an email from him where he expressed his views to you personally. OK by me if you disagree with his viewpoint. KAH, the point that I was trying to make is that I'm very tired of the politically correct thing. It is right and good to be sensitive to other people's feelings. I'm just fed up with people who pick apart everything they see/hear to try to find something that offends them. It makes conversation nearly impossible when you have to make sure every word isn't going to offend some group or another. When people discount an entire piece of art because of a line or two they are being narrow minded. Whether its Aladin (Disney), Ellison, Huck Finn, or Ender's Game it doesn't matter. Omer, I reread your posts and apologize for jumping to conclusions about your stance on Ender's Game. I understand that certain groups are justified in being sensitive. I just wish that they would look past a phrasing to the bigger picture of the work. Before I step down from my soap box I have further item. We say that we want honest polititians yet we crucify them if they express an honest opinion. I don't agree with Ventura's statements but I respect the man for expressing them. I would rather have someone who I somewhat disagree with in office but is honest than someone who I think I agree with but is lying through their teeth. <stepping down> commence shredding...
LindaElane User ID: 7733333	Oct 8th 0:21 AM Here is a post from an Israeli who is on the OSC mailing list. It appears that he is not universally perceived as Anti-Semetic, while of course, everyone has a right to his/her own opinion: "Just wanted to tell you, Pastwatch just won the Geffen award. The Geffen award is a prize, given to books that were translated to Hebrew. The Israelli assosiation of sci-fi and fantasy, started this tradition, this year, and Pastwatch is the first to win it. The winner is decided by the vote of the participants of ICon, the Israelli sci-fi convention."
Omer User ID: 0485244	Oct 8th 12:03 PM Kevin - I don't think I'm over sensitive. It's just that I found this particular scene, in hundred of books which had thousands of jewish characters... and I think this is the only book I've felt uncomfortable about( I think)... it seems to represent streotypes about Judaism, that's all. I nonetheless think Ender's Game is one of the best books I've ever read. As for his overall opinions, Pastwatch made a point, and in his email he defended that point, and I find his political ideas rather distatsteful. But I still think he's a very interesting person and a hell of a writer. Although - after reading the short story in Far horizon - I doubted that for a while
Transmetallix	Dec 30th 6:58 PM This thread seems to be old but i'll post anyways. I was talking to this guy at the Barnes and Noble today about Ender's Game and he that they were making a movie out of it. This is something that I would love to see. I stopped reading the series after Speaker for the Dead, when it slowed down too much for my taste, but Ender's Game is still one of my all time faves and I'd love to see the movie.
Ran User ID: 0867924	Dec 30th 7:29 PM Orson Scott Card has been working on the screenplay for quite awhile. The book is almost constantly optioned. On the other hand, I'm uncertain if it's moved past pre-production or has been green lighted by some studio to be actually made. The best place to look would be Orson Scott Card's own website, I think, or perhaps Ain't It Cool News.
LindaElane User ID: 0276214	Jan 3rd 11:47 PM The movie script was rewritten by Card when Jake Lloyd contacted him and said he wanted to play Ender. Card is very excited about having Jake do this. I quite disagree, as do quite a few others. I have lost interest in the movie at this point, and in fact would not see it if Jake Lloyd was Ender. Card says his producers could overrule him on this choice, but somehow it seems to me unlikely that they would, and barring their overruling him, or some sort of disaster, it looks like it will be Jake Lloyd. Though nothing has been signed, Card will not even condsider trying to get Haley Joel Osment. Says he is too small for the part, that it would be laughable to think of other kids following him into battle since he looks so sensitive. (the small and sensitive adjectives are not exact quotes of what he said when I saw him in person, but they are a pretty good approximation.) Card seems to have forgotten that the book says that Ender was small for his age, however. In fact, HJO looks almost exactly as I had pictured Ender. Obviously a problem with the film is that Ender goes from 6 to 12 in the book. I think they are going to try to shoot for 8 to 11 or so in the movie. Ah well, as I say, I don't think I will be seeing it. I started a little compaign to have people write to Card at his internet site www.fresnopix.com and ask him to reconsider the use of Jake Lloyd. I think it upset him a bit. He did not know I was the person who encouraged others to write, however, and I am not sure how many letters he got. I simply sent email to all the people at amazon.com who loved Ender's Game and gave their email address. Ah well. OSC's mind could not be changed. Gotta hand it to him though, it may be an honor thing, as he may feel he verbally promised it to Lloyd.
LindaElane User ID: 0276214	Jan 3rd 11:49 PM PS Actually I just encouraged people to write in with their opinion on J Lloyd. I know of one person who wrote in that he woudl be great for the part, in fact. (My humble opinion on that is "Why don't they just hire JarJar Binks?" Ah well.)
Omer User ID: 9739563	Jan 7th 3:48 AM Personnaly, I would love to see an Ender's Game movie... regardless of hte actor. What do you think, though? will the movie overshADOW THE BOOK (like in the case of Blade Runner, or clockwork orange) or be less influential, like DUNE?
Green Gerg User ID: 7830843	Jan 7th 11:06 AM One last thing on the OSC/Judaism question: Omer, did you read last year's ENCHANTMENT? The main character/hero of the book was Jewish, as was much of the flavor of the book, and I thought it evinced a lot of affection and interest on Card's part for Jewish culture. No?
LindaElane User ID: 0276214	Jan 7th 7:36 PM I think that an Ender's Game movie would be very overshadowed by the book. I think the movie is unlikely to work. It would require silly sounding voice overs to understand how Ender is learning in the battle room. Otherwise, we would just see a lot of floating little boys firing at each other. (Or else we would see things so obvious that we could not believe only the genius Ender could figure them out.) Seems like a fairly boring sight if you do not know what is in the character's minds. Also, there are not excellent special effects to make quick movements in no gravity look good. So, the effects are likely to look lame. I am not saying certain to, but I think it likely. I sort of feel bad for OSC. He is so excited about this being made into a movie. He is so very strong minded about it. In fact, he is hoping they will agree to film Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow at the same time. However, many people know that for years he insisted that the secret, surprise ending - I won't say what it was - should be revealed at the beginning since it would not work onscreen. He reversed himself on that when he thought it possible to get a good actor for Ender.
Omer User ID: 9014973	Jan 9th 3:50 AM Green Greg - I never said OSC's not interested or against Judaism. I said two things: 1. That I felt bad about the jewish remarks in Ender's Game, and 2. That is PASTWATCH, Orson Scott Card promotes the view that chrisitanity is (possibly one of ) the superior religion.
Omer User ID: 9551723	Mar 30th 2:47 PM I recently read Homebody, OSC's Horror novel. It is quite cute. I really enjoy Card's writing style, which is allways very relaxed and readable. He's really an author who writes stuff that's easy to read. Homebody was fairly good, but it had 2 main problems - 1. The beginning was way too long, and had little to do with the rest of the book( but after 200 pages, it really starts rolling) and 2. I was able to forsee almost every twist in the story, barring one or two. Still, its nice, and Orson Scott Card is really a nice person, so I ordered Maps in a Mirror, his short story collection, and I hope to get it before I'm flying to the US in April 8.
Jeff User ID: 1536664	Mar 30th 2:52 PM I really like Card's stories, in general. My only complain is that he sometimes seems to push a series into additional volumes that aren't as strong as the original. The first three books of the Alvin Maker series were great. A very gentle, but compelling, view of magic and fantasy. Ender's Game was fantastic, but I thought the follow-ons were far too wordy. Overall, though, I really like his work.
Omer User ID: 9551723	Mar 31st 2:05 PM I think he writes too much. It seems like every day there's a new book out by this guy. Enchantment and then Ender's Shadow and now Sara. Like, hey, dude, slow down a little :-)
Lanfir User ID: 9106183	May 18th 11:37 AM Anyone read the first five chapters of "The hegemon" yet? It deals with Bean and Achilles and Peter, and the first five chapters were surely promising!
Omer User ID: 9014973	May 18th 11:57 AM I wanna wait for the book... it'll kill me to read the first five chapters and than have to wait about half a year...
Nenz User ID: 9182423	May 18th 3:30 PM Where can you read these chapters. I'd really like to know.
LindaElane User ID: 0276214	May 18th 4:12 PM www.hatrack.com
Gregg User ID: 8214233	Jun 1st 9:54 PM Hee hee. I posted over at the Ender's game forum and got a call from LDS missionaries the next morning, less than 6 hours later. Oh yeah, they found me at an unlisted number in my roommate's name. Very impressive use of technology. If I had ~$50k to waste on legal fees, it'd be fun to sue them for profit for privacy violation. :)