[Note: This transcript is virtually complete.The missing
first couple of sentences set the scene by indicating a rise in certain views
upon the back of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Sabrina the Teenage Witch"
and "Belfry Witches".Parents should be made aware that certain philosophies
which I view as being detrimental to our society are being surreptitiously
or in some cases blatantly served up to children's minds, and whilst I don't
view them as "evil",the insidious and noxious undermining of certain other
views is a probable consequence.The furore surrounding
Harry Potter,is
part of this and is referred to here.I should point out that the conception
of paganism as it is detailed by Nigel Bourne is consistent with my own
discoveries,and as such paganism should not bring to mind images of Ozzy
Osbourne biting the heads off bats! Nor should anyone be worried about their
youth being "corrupted" into base and vile behaviour any more than one would
be by being any of the orthodox religions.
The issue I take with paganism,is the same as I take with all the other
religions. In some ways I prefer paganism to the orthodox religions,since
it isn't so daft as to presume an invisible god,and the gods that are referred
to seem more metaphor than real object.The inherent equality of the sexes
is a refreshing antithesis to orthodox patriarchal religions.But paganism
has it's own peculiar drawbacks which I take issue with.I should point out
to the holier than thou orthodox religions,that it was the pagans who tried
to maintain the library at Alexandria,the repository
of all mankind's knowledge,and it was Christians and Moslems that burnt it
down.Therefore if you think my comments too harsh,then consider that I am
being lenient where paganism is concerned! -LB]
Host : Can it lead to a more dangerous interest in the occult and
Satanism,and...?
Nigel : Well,I don't think reading a book like Harry Potter,which
I confess to not having read myself is going to lead to anything dangerous,or
dodgy...
Host : No,I mean the interest in the.....
Nigel : ...but the interest in the occult,erm...I think we need to
draw the difference here between paganism between a spiritual religion,and
the occult as a magic practice,there is a difference. Paganism,the religion,is
purely spiritual,it's a nature - based religion,not related to spells and
magic in any particular way.We do accept the existence of magic as a force,but
it's not a prerequisite for worshipping in a pagan way.
Host : So the enquiries you've had have been from young people,essentially
interested in paganism,then,rather than witchcraft?
Nigel : The majority of the enquiries have been about "Can I get a
love spell?" (Host laughs) and this sort of thing,which is not really where
we're coming from. Yes love spells do exist,yes they are very traditional,but
everybody practices magic spells of some description.If you blow out the
candles on a birthday cake,you're performing a magic spell ,if you touch
wood...
Host : Yes.
Radio conjures up a magical production |
When I heard that Radio4 was planning to broadcast
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone in its entirety, I thought
the idea ludicrous. The producers must have gone mad -who, I reasoned, would
spend their entire Boxing Day listening to one continuous eight hour broadcast
without even a break for the news, especially families with young children?
Hew could a single voice reading a book compete with a house full of new
toys, television and videos, passing visitors and a Game Boy? Nevertheless, we switched on out of interest to hear the beginning. I am amazed and delighted to say that right at the very end, the entire family was still listening. How we all immersed ourselves in the magical world of Hegwarts, so ably and brilliantly read by Stephen Fry. Radio 4 controller Helen Boaden expressed her hope for a "landmark in family memory" with this extraordinarily bold piece of broadcasting, and contrary to my expectations achieved just that in this household. Congratulations! David Bennett Littleborough, Greater Manchester I am writing to congratulate Stephen Fry and the BBC on a wonderful reading of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone on Boxing Day. Fry captured the magic of JK Rowling's book wonderfully and towards the end I was pacing up and down with anticipation even though I knew exactly what was coming after reading the book several times already. It was a wonderful idea, and I have every intention of going and buying the tapes. Anna Sandham (aged 14) Wakefield, West Yorkshire Having organised my Boxing Day listening around Desert Island Discs Christmas Special, two episodes of The Archers and Front Row (among other programmes), I was horrified to discover at midday that I was in for an eight-hour advertisement for JK Rowling's Harry Potter. Do her royalties really need a further boost, given the already immense sales of the books? Some time ago I decided to invest in a good-quality tuner so that I could get the best from BBC broadcasts, only to discover; on this occasion, my favourite programmes relegated to LW which my equipment cannot receive. Surely it should have been the other way round, with Harry Potter on LW (as with cricket)? Radio 4's regular programmes ought to have first priority. This is a serious failure in Radio 4's obligations to listeners. Ian Parsons LondonW2 [RT 13-19 January 2001] |
Nigel : ...you know? These are..this is magic.This is folk
magic,traditional stuff,but it's not occultism,it's not dangerous satanic
practices,and I think the concern that's expressed by the christian groups
is something that we see every time the word "paganism" is mentioned. Somebody
comes out of the woodwork and says,(adopts a Joe Pasquale-type helium voice),
"Oh this is the start of a slippery slope,there all going to be slaughtering
babies in a minute", erm and in fact it doesn't happen.
Host : And it...(laughs)..now they're going to be publishing a "young
witches handbook" soon,also,as a response to this massive response that there
has been.
Nigel : Yes,yes.
Host : Erm,now that is quite serious stuff,written by a witch...
Nigel : Yes,yes.
Host : ..and that will include certain sort of spells...
Nigel : It will include an understanding [The idea that this word
is used in conjunction with ANY religion is a farce -LB] of...information
about the magical ritual festivals that we have during the year,the spring
equinox,the autumn equinox,the seasonal festivals,it may include some nice
light-hearted spells and that kind of thing,but it's not going to be a
heavyweight thing.
[Propagating ideas that are counter to reason is a serious threat to how
our society functions,and is as bad as praying to a none existent God]
It's not going to be an instruction manual for taking over the world
with your dark satanic powers.It will be good solid information about what
paganism is really about,which is nature,getting in tune with
nature,understanding the turning of the seasons,understanding your place
within the world.
["Your place within the world" is a phrase which means that a philosophy
of life is being proffered which accentuates nature,this isn't so bad
theoretically,except that it advocates an anti science,anti progress
position.Your place in the world is found through free thinking,it is found
through reading many philosophies,not just one.Paganism isn't "THE right
way",and no other religion is either.Paganism, as Jacob
Bronowski explains, and the view of magical forces,posits a view which
thinks it can manipulate nature and get it to do it's bidding.This is a FALSE
perspective.Chanting over crystals or making arbitrary concoctions and performing
rituals and ceremonies has absolutely NO effect on the material of the
universe,or any person or object within the universe. The supernatural ideas
present in paganism and also in other religions are highly ignorant,and are
not cognisant of just how powerful physical forces are.They do not need imbuing
with OUR incantations in order to bring about actions.Nor does any chant
alter or bring about events that wouldn't have otherwise happened. The idea
of a "Life Path" accentuates fatalism which is a direct affront to
freewill,and the physical justification
of freewill via
quantum physics and
chaos theory.Spokespeople from within paganism
and its close cousins speak as though with authority on these matters when
they know absolutely nothing whatsoever about that which they speak.The slant
they put on it is that science is wrong. Science has proved itself,and Mr
Bourne would not be on TV and broadcasting through the airwaves if it were
not for science's understanding of nature.There is no such thing as magic,and
the kind of views expressed by paganism (as Nigel goes on to say) create
a simple-minded kind of Green politics that seemingly
Greenpeace advocate.All of these views are
scientifically illiterate,and are at odds with the
modern understanding of the universe via reason.As
Richard Dawkins pointed out to
Prince
Charles,we all think the Earth and nature need looking after,but
we can't throw science out in order to do it.It
is noxious and insidious that children's programmes have been the source
of a revisiting to this kind of religion,and whilst paganism is possibly
better than christianity (at least you can see with your own eyes what pagans
are worshipping),I find a renewed interest in these matters as bad a sign
as the christian groups do,although not for the same reasons.I'd like to
get rid of the christian groups as well,or at least keep their interest in
public matters within the domains where they have a remit or ability.It is
farcical to suggest that we should not manipulate genes because it is against
God,when there is no God.I do not live by christian morality,and neither
by pagan morality,I live by MY morality, and as a free thinking individual
so should everyone.If you wish to be a mindless drone,then join a religion
where everyone thinks the same thing.I am not called an anything.By calling
yourself an "X" you're immediately tagged as being of that group's mentality.How
is that in keeping with individualism? -LB]
It's not anything to be worried about,in fact good information is never something
to be worried about.
[Any religious information is ALWAYS something to be worried about because
it's highly likely to be ignorant -LB]
Host : As I understand [That word should not be used too liberally
by a morning TV host either -LB] it as well,it's one of the fastest
growing...
Nigel : Religions.
Host : ..religions,I was going to say...
Nigel : Yeah,yeah.
Host : ...I didn't know whether to say "religion" or not.
[That's not unusual,they don't know whether to call it a religion either
-LB]
But it is...there is,and I wonder,you know,with its emphasis on nature,and
it's something that,you know,in this new century,we're all kind of,hopefully
looking towards conservation [Which is not necessarily a good thing-LB]
so we don't blow up the planet completely or...
Nigel : Well,that's right,I mean the Green movement took an enormous
amount of impetus from the early pagan movement in the 1950s and 60s,when
we were very much underground, because people didn't know about us,they were
very,very frightened [What do you mean "were" ? -LB],and people used
to...I mean Dennis Wheatley's got a lot to answer for,with all these stories
of that nature,and people assumed that the witch that they'd seen flying
on a broom stick with a big nose,well I'm sorry about the big nose,but it
can't be helped.
Host : And you didn't come here....
Nigel : No,no,a Peugeot! But that kind of image,existed and the stereotype
grew out of that. People are changing now,people are realising that
pagans,"people of the country",that's what the word means... [Ahh you
mean as dotty as Reg Presley or Shirley MacLaine
-LB]
Host : Yeah.
Nigel : ...are actually taking their place and making their statement
in the world. Green politics is an important part of the pagan way.it's not
just about the spirituality,it's about living in harmony with the world.
[No it isn't - it's about retrogressive Medievalism that suggests man
shouldn't do anything "bad" to the environment,without defining who idea
of "bad" we're talking about.One man's meat is another's poison.What is
detrimental to some is a benefit to others.You cannot have a sweeping policy
of "do only good things" - it's shallow and naive.Things were not better
in the past,because we had less impact.We cannot turn the clock back.We cannot
act like the Amish and expect to feed,clothe,and maintain the world's
health.Science has it's drawbacks, but that's because it's Pandora's Box,you
have to deal with the detriments as they occur, otherwise you don't get the
benefits.Trashing crops and acting in a luddite fashion helps nobody - LB]
Something that I think we all need to do.People are far more aware now,that
we need to understand that,that we need to stop being told what to do,and
start being allowed to think for ourselves.
[That's true,so if you wish to think for yourself,the obvious step is
NOT to join a religion,which tells you what to think,that is logically
obvious.Thus Nigel,open mouth and insert foot,or take that bullet out of
your foot before you insert it in your mouth.Religions create dogma,and a
belief system for the whole community. What they are not,is free thinking
individuals with no allegiances.I have no default allegiance to science.I
criticise its mistakes.But I don't do it from the perspective of a group
view,because I know my own mind,and Nigel,if you and your cohorts knew yours,then
you wouldn't be part of a group belief system and farcically suggest that
you are thinking for yourself -LB]
Paganism is about this naturality,about this ability to question [If
so then it should be called pagan science and not pagan religion
-LB].
I go out and look at the sky and think "Why is it like that?"
[Try reading an astronomy book instead of ignorant
astrology books -LB].
I question why do things happen?
[Then become a scientist to get some answers -LB]
And I'm not told not to question by either churches or other organisations.
[No,you're fed your own brand of superstitious ignorant twaddle by your
own religion which stops you from being a free-thinker,defies freewill,and
thinks it can manipulate nature and do your bidding via spells.Well your
bleeping-well wrong mate! If you're so open-minded,then you ought to be able
to see that science's position is exactly the same.The whole point of science
is to question the orthodoxy.I see this in science.I DON'T see it in paganism
much more than any other religion.You DON'T question whether your spells
or chants actually produce the claimed effects,nor do you PROVE that they
do anything at all. The system of BELIEF has you accept something without
any proof being required and then requires it to be disproved to deny it.Even
when this happens you continue to believe and untrue supposition.Thus just
like conventional religions you tell lies and propagate it as the truth.That
is what is dangerous.Ignorance is propagated as
wisdom.Cause and effect are
denied,innumeracy is rampant,(the symbols and
artifacts that employ number and geometry are given mystical meaning as opposed
to the actual mathematical meaning,ie "mystic hexagons" and "magical
squares" are seen as runic devices rather than seeing the mathematical
significance of "mystic" and "magical")the nature of chance is misunderstood.If
you name virtually any area of life,paganism is filled with virtually as
much folly as any other religion -LB]
I believe in that monumentally important freedom
to think.
Host : Is it true that there's also a belief in the divine in paganism?
Nigel : Oh very much so.
Host : What is the divine then? Because in the church it's God?
Nigel : Well,Dylan Thomas described it as "the force that through
the green fuse drives the flower",it's nature - it's the elemental forces
[Oh you mean the antiquated 4 forces of nature described by the Greeks,that
have long since been superseded by the table
of elements? -LB].
This is the divine [Yes "divine madness"or "divine comedy" -LB],this
is the creative principle in nature.
[You haven't a first clue what that principle is,DNA is the creative
principle,and deeper,the mathematical processes behind the physics that create
the universe. There are no spirits and there are no gods,and there is nothing
to pray to -LB]
You could call it "fertility"
[Now we see why the orthodox religions have a problem with it.The sexual
taboos of christianity are quite odd,as Jacob Bronowski pointed out in "The
Ascent of Man" if Eve was made from Adam's rib then she was cloned,and they
thus have no leg to stand on where cloning is concerned.They seem to be against
sex as a means of propagation,as they allude to parthenogenesis (virgin birth)
when speaking of Christ.Christianity seems to have a problem with all beliefs
that worship procreation,when in fact that makes more sense than worshipping
a none existent being. Jacob was enlightening on this,he suggests today that
bees still produce both clones and male bees by virgin birth (the egg is
not fertilised by sperm).Oddly the clone is the product of the fertilised
egg. Fertility rites seem to be the prerogative of tribal peoples,which makes
a kind of sense since it is observably the means to both new people to till
the soil and the means by which new food is produced.It makes sense to worship
this. However this possibly assumes that procreation happens sexually,and
that is not always the case [Ref : mworld - Doc
28].Whichever way you look at it,paganism makes more sense than christianity,but
science makes more sense than them both. There is absolutely no need for
worshipping anything at all,which is not to say there should not be "respect"
for creatures or the planet as a biosystem. I note that Gaia is often mentioned
in regard to these views. James Lovelock appropriated the notion,and created
a concept based on the idea that the Earth looks after itself via biofeedback.In
this sense Earth is the thing that requires respect. In this the view of
paganism is not distant from the sciences,especially the ecological,
anthropological,zoological and biological sciences.But as with Green politics
one is very aware of ill-thought out and limited notions apparent within
the belief systems such as paganism.The simplistic schemes and misunderstandings
of how the world functions come about through belief that magical or supernatural
forces are at work.This is a BELIEF,it is not a proven truth. Ignorance can
only follow in superstitions wake -LB]
But that would evoke the most prurient responses from certain sections
of society.
Host : Yes,yes.It would.
Nigel : But the idea of understanding the fact that things grow and
change and turn and we do that as well [I'm so glad a religious person
knows what a fact is -LB],that understanding, and understanding that
there's no part of us that is not connected to any other part. All of us
are connected to the planet,to the whole ecosystem in which we live,and the
creative force behind that ecosystem is what we refer to as divine.
[I'm not sure what the chronology is,but the "holism" being referred to here,has
gained ground because of the "paradigm shift" created in our culture by
quantum physics.For Nigel to lay claim to it is
dubious.I predicted such a change some 10 years or more ago,and
Danah Zohar and others have alluded to it since
-LB]
Host : Do you think that with this impetus that you've been given
by this sort of..by as we mentioned at the very beginning,you know "Buffy
the Vampire Slayer",with "Harry Potter", which has opened up this whole new
world to kids particularly I think...
Nigel : Yes.
Host : ...and indeed older kids as well (Nigel laughs),do you think,
to be honest,it's something that you can really - and I don't mean this in
too materialistic way - can cash in on,to really kind of tell the world...
Nigel : Yes. Oh I think there has...
Host : ...what you're all about,and actually attract even more people?
Nigel : Yes [Like the lambs to the slaughter -LB]. It would
be very, very, easy,at this moment in time,to "sell" paganism.
Host : Are you going to do that?
Nigel : Only if I get offered a really good series!
Host : No but seriously...
Nigel : No,no,I mean the one thing that goes against the grain,as
far as we're concerned,is evangelising [You mean like being on GMTV and
saying what paganism is,or selling "young witches handbook" that sort of
thing? You just wouldn't do that then? -LB].
It's not our ideal to go out and preach on doorsteps and that kind of thing.We'd
much rather...if people are interested,do exactly what they're doing,get
in contact with the Pagan Federation,with people like myself,we'll give them
answers,we'll tell them what it's about,and let them make up their own mind.The
one thing we're not going to do is say,"You must become a pagan".
Host : No.
Nigel : You know,it's not going to happen,because....
Host : (adopts posh voice) "Pagans need you".(laughs)
Nigel : Well pagans need all sorts of things.
Host : Well with regard to children then,if you're getting inquiries
from kids,how do you respond to that,because presumably you could get a lot
of comeback from parents saying...
Nigel : Yes.I mean the Pagan Federation doesn't accept members under
the age of 18,this is not because we don't like children or that we think
that there is anything sinister,it is simply that that is the age of legal
majority,they can make their own minds up at that age. [That doesn't stop
children of any religion being brainwashed into their parents beliefs.We
might ask why it is that orthodox Christianity can baptise a child at birth,thus
putting it's noxious stamp on people BEFORE the age of consent.I recently
watched a discussion on the distinction between
"cult" and
"religion",one speaker said that as far as the dictionary is concerned there
isn't much difference. The only difference as far as I can see is that cults
take over your mind and property,whereas religions just take over your
mind.Anyone who performs ritualised behaviour has obviously succumbed to
some form of mind control -LB]
I actually think many children of a much younger age can make up their
own minds.but the law says....and therefore we work with that.But if a 14
year old comes to us and says,"I'm really,really interested in paganism",the
first question would be "Why?",and the second question would be "Have you
spoken to your parents about this?" [What if both the parents are pagans?
-LB]
And we would not go down any road of enquiry,without asking the permission
of the parents,and of the child.
Host : Anybody who's got,you know,young kids knows that they come
home from school and they're seriously into sort of environment and you know,you
shouldn't smoke,
[It seems to me that if nature is divine,then the body ought to be divine
too,so imbibing carcinogens ought to be inconsistent with the belief system
and so should making use of any toxic or narcotic substances that are plant
derived and conceived of as "natural" -LB]
and there should be more green fields,and their view of life is very much
along those lines.
[Whilst I sympathise with a lot of green concerns,and the next generation
SHOULD be informed early about the type of things that are currently at issue,I
can't help thinking that the green environmentalists are biasing them to
be organic and to be against viable alternatives
and are brainwashing them into a certain retrogressive philosophy.I note
this week that there is alarm over Methane being produced by cows,it being
a more problematic greenhouse gas than Carbon Dioxide.Cows have been around
for ages,and the greenhouse effect has never kicked in before now.I can't
help thinking we're going hyper over very small changes (that would have
been immeasurable before now,without modern accuracy) that are less of a
potential risk than supposed. I don't doubt that
SOME changes need to be made,but I do doubt that DRASTIC measures are
inevitable.The doom-laden scenarios posited by green types are typical of
the apocalyptic scenarios created by creationists
and are almost revelation-like -LB]
Nigel : Yes,yes,we've done a good job haven't we?
Host : (laughs) You've done a good job without kind of doing
anything
[That about sums it up! Note that it's the sciences that have made ozone
holes, the greenhouse effect,and environmentalism an issue,not pagans. Pagans
do not accept the principles by which science works,they would not have been
able to measure parts per million of ozone in the atmosphere. It is scientists
that are making this known,not pagans.Pagans lack the ability to see what
is going on in nature and lack the ideas to create the technology that makes
the measurements to make environmental problems an issue. The notion of what
a compound is and what is an element is not understood by pagans,they have
no conception of the nature of carbon dioxide.They don't even know what a
crystal is,and which elements are crystals and why a crystal has a crystalline
structure,so don't be fooled into thinking it is they that hold the environmental
cards.It is scientists that are seeking to help the environment,even if science
has had a hand in creating the problems.Science solves its own mistakes,it
needs no help from ignorant backward superstitious chanting,crystal waving
individuals,that are really a mass group that all believe the same thing,which
is nonsense anyway -LB]
The other thing I'm interested in particularly,and I know Wendy is too,is
that women play quite a dominant role....
Some mystery and magic |
|
THE mystical world created by author J K Rowling
in her best selling Harry Potter books came to a Dukinfield high school
recently. John Kinsman, a member of the Royal Society of Chemistry dropped in for two days at All Saints Catholic High School, as part of its summer school, run by English teacher Louisa Morris. Mr Kinsman adopted the guise of Professor Snape to mix all manner of potions. This not only entertained the pupils, it also provided valuable pointers in basic chemistry. Mary Arnold, deputy headteacher of the school on Kenyon Avenue, said: "Judging from the explosions it was certainly a lively experience for the pupils! "The theme was not only the world of wonder; but magic too and as part of the summer school, pupils visited the Royal Exchange Theatre in Manchester and were given a tour back stage which they found fascinating." (The Advertiser Aug30 2001) |
Nigel : Yes very much so....
Host : ..in paganism....
Nigel : ...I wouldn't have said "dominant".
Host : Well....
Nigel : I would have said "equalist" .
Host : ..they're strong..equal,there's more of an equality there isn't
there.Whereas if we look at the church we seem to be very male-dominated.
[This coincides with a theory I posited,(which was echoed on "Soul of
the UK") that the potential to believe romantic and superstitious rubbish,has
received a boost from the equality given to women. I should make clear that
I'm not a chauvinist,and I think equality of the sexes is absolutely
necessary,otherwise it would make a mockery of my stances on racism and
speciesism. But let's look at the facts. Prior
to now there was a patriarchal society,overseen as stated here by the orthodox
church.This has been altered to give women equal rights and an equal say
in society. For a long time that voice has been silent. Writers and scientists
alike have written or acted under aliases that hid their true gender in order
to be accepted. For the most part women have been in "The Doll's House" and
told to keep quiet. Culturally,the advent of the female voice is an unleashing
of a naive and uninformed view.An unscientific view,sick of cold rationalism
and favouring romanticism. This is not peculiarly a gender issue. The romantic
poets of yore were also men,and so I allude to the view as opposed to the
gender,but for the most part the cultural change has been an influx of women
who statistically are more romantic (the neurologists suggest that there
is a right hemisphere bias with those of a romantic persuasion). This is
similar in nature to the kind of idea suggested in the
Third Culture as being the sour grapes
of literary intellectuals.What I am suggesting is that with equality of the
sexes,has been an influx of a romantic and naive viewpoint that fails to
understand basic reasoning.One only has to look at a women's magazine to
see the number of articles on pseudo-scientific rubbish and ideas of intuition,
sixth senses,and feelings and emotions. This has created fertile soil for
the Eastern mystical ideas to put down roots as the Tiger economies bring
in their peculiar brand of ignorance-again by exploiting children and putting
subliminal messages about their culture into cartoons and video games (perhaps
not purposefully- I'm,not a conspiracy theorist! Though "South Park" sent
it up excellently.So obviously someone else as seen the same thing,it is
after all glaringly obvious.). The problem is that the Germaine
Greer,anti-man,anti-science,Spice-girl power retaliation,does no service
to men or women. Women do not attain equality by acting as stupidly as men
in some kind of mindless act of vengeance for being kept under the thumb.Nor
does it help anyone to throw out the means by which our society is civilised
and fruitful,merely because a patriarchal society created it (with the silent
women's help). The society maybe good REGARDLESS of whether it was
patriarchal.And one would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater if
one destroys the basis of our scientifically rational society merely through
vengeance and ignorance. Some may say that I don't have reason to make such
a division,I think it's fairly clear that the take-up in the sciences has
been male-dominated,and even with government aid to enhance female take-up
their remains an odd ratio.I'm told actually that the stats currently are
favouring females,but it maybe due to positive discrimination.The point is
that the "female aspect" or "the right hemisphere emphasis" or "the romantic
allusion" call it what you will,is undermining science and rationality and
that is VERY dangerous for our society. We are NOT Japan,we are not China.If
our society can benefit from a female influx,so be it,if it can benefit from
Eastern ideas,so be it.But if accommodating these means accepting unproved
hearsay because of PC silliness,or religious fantasies,then count me out.
Note also that emotions are on the agenda,and even Sue
Greenfield suggests that emotions are as viable
as reason at providing information.I note that it was emotions that drove
mob mentality to almost lynch innocent people because they BELIEVED they
were paedophiles. Emotion DOES NOT provide an enhanced version of truth.Reality
DOES NOT depend on your perceptions (even if it is subject to them).If you
jump off a cliff gravity and the nuclear forces that halt the mass of your
body will kill you REGARDLESS of what emotional state you are in,and regardless
of how your perceive the situation,and regardless of what your beliefs about
reality are.No incantation or prayer will save
you,that is physics,and it applies no matter what you believe,and no matter
what you perceive. The description of the physical universe as it stands
for the most part was the product of a patriarchal society.I hate the male
dominated orthodoxy of the church as much as the next person,but the great
achievements of science have been done within that scheme,and are being
undermined now that we have equality,by mystics and superstition which for
the most part is the prerogative of females and their romantic notions. I
should make an apology to all those females who are capable of reasoning
and doing science,and point out that the mystic males are just as much in
the firing line.It's just that I'm caught between choosing my words in order
not to offend in these PC days.I'm treading the same line as the police did
with racism,but as John Allen Paulos shows,racism
needn't be implied when there is a statistical division of capability in
races.Similarly,I'm not being sexist,but attacking a view,which presumably
is predominantly held by and predominantly the prerogative of the female
gender.I should also point out that I see this as one contributory factor
in a system which may interactively include the demise of the orthodox religious
establishment.
The essence is that women as a group are coming late to the game,and are
having to play a kind of "cultural catch-up" to displace the naivety that
has existed due to being kept in the dark.As Sue Greenfield points out,within
her regime,utilising females can "magically" make things run more smoothly
through less confrontation.It maybe a good exploitation of a female
characteristic in the sciences,but I am wary of her use of the word "magic"
to refer to a supposedly progressive aspect-it carries a conurtation that
through use of an aspect which is an anathema to science, one can do science
more easily,which is absurd -LB]
Nigel : Absolutely,it is a bit of a male autocracy.Paganism has a
god and a goddess as a fundamental basis for our theology.
[If you're going to have a theology,then that makes more sense than a
male-only system -LB]
So where you have a god and a goddess,you're going to have an equal amount
of respect for each gender.We're not going to have a situation where because
I am a male I can tell everybody else what to do,I mean this seems to me
to be nonsensical.
[I'm glad that making sense is the requisite determining factor.Perhaps
there are those that hark to biology and suggest that males are more muscular
and our heritage as been the hunter and provider,and that women are made
to be childbearing,whilst these maybe the biological roles,this does not
dictate what role one can adopt in a civilised society,and neither does it
legitimise domination or even violence in a relationship.
I recall that Steven Rose at the OU (Sex and the single gene") pointed out
that finding a homosexual gene (unlikely) would not stop bigotry,and the
idea that homosexual geneticists could hope to wipe the floor with a convicted
christian belief of homosexuality was an abomination was grossly
flawed.Biological reductionism solves nothing.
Equality of sexes is fine by me,and if your going to bring notions of deities
into it,I'd rather have two - indicative of the sexes,rather than a
bossy man-God.It's perhaps because of women gaining equality,that such a
view has gained ground,and orthodox religion has waned.This shows perhaps
that the gods are an invention of man,and are not real objects.I wonder where
homosexuals and transsexuals fit into all these notions of man and women
gods? -LB]
Host : On a very serious note as well,we spoke to a lady earlier on
in the programme with this...a lot of publicity about paedophiles and everything
just recently,and the fact that there seem to have been so many hushed up
incidents within the Catholic church...
Nigel : Yes.
Host : Again, very male dominated.Do you think as well....I mean we
know that church numbers are falling,people aren't going there as much,do
you think this is another added sort of attraction for your religion,that
you don't have this kind of male domination side of things?
Nigel : Absolutely,absolutely.A classic case in point.We worship by
the offices of priests and priestesses,not priests and women priests.There
is a difference, and there's a fundamental difference.A priestess is in her
own right a priestess.We have....my wife is a priestess of the craft.
[Rather inevitable that wasn't it? I wonder how many "mixed" marriages
there are? Most pagans or witches I've listened to are always partnered by
someone of the same belief system -LB]
Host : Do you have children?
Nigel : I have one daughter,yes,and she's 17.
Host : And is....ah...and does she pagan as well?
Nigel : No,she's been brought up in a pagan household obviously,because
we are.She'll make her own mind up...in fact I know she already has,and she
will presumably go down the path that she chooses.
[Wholly not influenced by the fact that both her parents are pagan.We
know that voting and political ideas of parents influence offspring (even
if it's in the negative),and the deep conviction of other religions passes
into offspring,so paganism is unlikely to any different -LB]
But the vast majority of her friends are pagan.
[According to psychologist
Judith
Harris peer group pressure is the dominant force in shaping attitudes
and beliefs (I don't think it is,though it's probably a large influence),it
can't help an individual to be an individual surrounded by a load of clones
-LB]
She's a very very adult 17 year old,and in fact she's doing some of the
multifarious television television and radio appearances that have been put
on our shoulders over the last couple of weeks,for herself.So she's been
talking about it quite a lot.
[You mean she's been brainwashed into being pagan,and now she's helping you
evangelise the belief system contrary to your previous statement that you
don't evangelise.So you're a liar as well - So mote it be -LB]
Host : Yes.
Nigel : Children play an immensely important part in paganism,not
as the victims of sacrifice,but as friends,and our children,our future.
[I thought they couldn't join until 18? -LB] We're making a world in
which our children can live,not a world that is going to be destroyed and
leave nothing but brown fields,we're making a green field site for them.
[Destroyed by what exactly? Evil science? Ho-hum another doom-laden scenario
postulated by ignorant superstitious praying types.Change the record,the
apocalypse is not nigh.There WILL be one if we drop science and favour
superstition,and drop reason and adopt belief. Then when the self-fulfilling
prophecy occurs,all the brain-drain god toting fruitloops will be shouting
"I told you so" at the top of their lungs. Why not participate instead of
carping and undermining? Alter the system,don't replace it,keep what works
-LB]
Host : What a wonderful note to end on.Nigel thank you very much
indeed.Nigel from the Pagan Federation,thanks a lot.
Nigel : Thank you it's been a pleasure.
Book week casts spell on pupils |
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WORLD book week was a truly magical affair for
youngsters across the borough. Hundreds of pupils discarded their uniforms and donned the outfit of their favourite fictional character to celebrate the annual event. And it was no surprise that top children's author JK Rowling cast a spell on the children - dozens turned up as everybody's favourite schoolboy wizard Harry Potter. Pupils and staff at St Peter's Primary in Oxford Street, Ashton, all dressed up as characters from the hugely successful books. And when it came to lunchtime they were treated to a very unusual menu which included magic wands, wizards robes and lizard eye sponge with slime sauce, all washed down with a glass of dragon's blood!
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Over at Aldwyn Primary in Lumb Lane, Audenshaw, the pupils
paid £1 to dress up as their favourite story book characters to help
raise money for new playground equipment at the school. Even the staff got
in on the act turning up as Snow White and the seven dwarves with head teacher
Tim Richards as Doctor Doolittle. And at Russell Scott Primary in Clare Street, Denton, there was no sign of poor old Cinderella as the ugly sisters stole the show. Headteacher Steve Marsland, who dressed up as Captain Hook, said: "It was a really enjoyable day The children loved dressing up and even the staff dressed up. [The Advertiser March 21,2002] |
Postscript 5: Jan
Potocki:The Manuscript
Found in Saragossa
The extraordinary story of Polish adventurer,ethnographer,aristocrat
and activist Jan Potocki (1761-1815).Written in French,his novel
"The Manuscript
Found in Saragossa"combines horror,philosophy and Enlightenment
rationalism,and anticipates techniques of horror-writing used by novelists
today. |
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